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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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I agree that the cold tea gambit is pretty lame. When you have buck naked preteen girls manhandling Filip Mueller--throwing him out of the gas chamber so he can survive, by miracle, to bear witness--why would you talk about the cold tea incident?

This is why makes Holocaust revisionism so vibrant and robust - the fact that there are so many lively points of dispute within the discipline.

I have to disagree, the cold tea easily outranks naked preteens in the gas chamber.
With the naked preteens, Mueller was deliberately aiming for the effect he achieves, although the effect and intent is crass and obvious, it is deliberately. With his "and by now the tea was stone cold" he is blissfully unaware of the absurdity of his statement, the completely unintentional nature heightens the comedy amazingly.
 

But that's silly isn't it? There is tons of evidence for both events. It's just that there isn't a "Katyn denial cult" anymore, so no one is pretending Katyn didn't happen.

Actually there is just such a cult in Russia - they deny the Soviets committed the crime, continue to blame the Nazis, and contest the documentary etc evidence in ways that are shall we say, reminiscent of our denier friends. Despite the apparent ideological divide, they even associate with Holocaust deniers. There's a photograph of Yuri Mukhin together with Carlo Mattogno and Juergen Graf.
 
This is why makes Holocaust revisionism so vibrant and robust - the fact that there are so many lively points of dispute within the discipline.

I have to disagree, the cold tea easily outranks naked preteens in the gas chamber.
With the naked preteens, Mueller was deliberately aiming for the effect he achieves, although the effect and intent is crass and obvious, it is deliberately. With his "and by now the tea was stone cold" he is blissfully unaware of the absurdity of his statement, the completely unintentional nature heightens the comedy amazingly.
Along with the wee problem you guys have understanding and rationally discussing evidence, it's this attitude thing that keeps you a movement without followers and without chance of attracting followers.
 
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The more I think about it, I believe "double standard" isn't accurate. In general, "no standard" is apropos for the holocaust. In this specific case, we don't really have a double standard. We know the Katyn massacre really happened because we have the Nazi report documenting the atrocities. We know the holocaust happened because we have people who say so. We believe both Katyn and the holocaust happened. It would be a double standard if we had an independent international commission sponsored study for both the holocaust and for Katyn but we were to say we know Katyn happened but we insisted the holocaust didn't.

Does anybody else think it's ironic that the only valid, reliable scientific investigation of any World War II atrocity was sponsored by Nazi Germany?

And with a single handwave, Dogzilla wipes out virtually every 20th Century incident of mass murder, genocide or famine from the historical record.
 
Along with the wee problem you guys have understanding and rationally discussing evidence, it's this attitude thing that keeps you a movement without followers and without chance of attracting followers.

You little sneak. After I left such a nice little story for you over at RODOH.
 
Does anybody else think it's ironic that the only valid, reliable scientific investigation of any World War II atrocity was sponsored by Nazi Germany?

Ironic doesn't quite get it, it is way beyond irony. And Katyn is not the only scientifically investigated WW II massacre, there is also Vinnitsa, swept under the rug by the historians/media, but well documented nonetheless by .... the Nazis. See.... noting the incredible fact that accurate WW II history is only available from William Pierce and David Duke ....

http://www.davidduke.com/general/hidden-history-the-genocide-at-vinnitsa_14911.html
 
Yes, the "something else" that is different is that one is the holocaust and the other is the not-holocaust. Of course the evidence is going to be different--the events are different.
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So, you choose to go with begging the question.

The Holocaust is different because it is held to a different standard, and we know this because the Holocaust is held to a different standard because it is the Holocaust.

Denier "scholarship" in action.
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Let's try a hypothetical example to see if it helps you understand. Let's say you're conducting a survey of people's attitudes toward the holocaust and the Armenian Genocide. You developed a questionnaire with ten multiple choice questions. After the survey was complete, if you found out that the answers didn't support your hypothesis, would it be OK to throw out some of questionnaires or change the answers so you would get the results you want? Even you would probably say that it is not OK to do this. Would it matter if there was more evidence of the Armenian Genocide than there was for the holocaust? Would it matter if there was more evidence for the holocaust than the Armenian Genocide? Would it matter if the results you were getting would really be offensive to the Armenian community? Would it matter if it would offend the Jewish community? Would there be any circumstances at all in which you could change answers to a questionnaire to get the results you want?

You would have to say that there are not. So you could say, as a general statement of principle that it's not OK to change answers to survey questions so you can get the results you want. Or to simplify, the maxim is: "You can't make up evidence to support your point."

No matter how much or how little evidence you have on any question at all, it's not OK to fabricate evidence.

We don't have nearly as many testimonies from Armenian Genocide survivors as we do from holocaust survivors. Would it be OK to make up Armenian Genocide survivor testimonies? If I said it's OK to fabricate Armenian Genocide survivor stories but it's not OK to do that with the holocaust, would you say I'm employing a double standard?
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And here, you passively agressively attempt to suggest without having the balls to actually say it, that many important pieces of eyewitness testimony supporting the Holocaust have been fabricated.

Something you have yet to demonstrate, and which ignores all of the other types of evidence we have.

Let's try another example: Leon Uris' book "Exodus". If all it takes is being about the Holocaust, then why do we not accept the historicity of Dov Landau?
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Shermer said Coles questions were "important" and that it would be "good to have answers to" them. I guess "important" and "not significant" are synonymous. You're right that Shermer wasn't talking about absence of evidence for the holocaust. He was talking about David Cole's important questions, the lack of evidence to answer these questions, and the reminder that not having evidence is OK.
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What questions are those, and what impact do they have on the historicity of the Holocaust? Which of Cole's "46 Questions" remain unanswered, or indeed weren't answered then (you discount the possibility that Shermer is simply *wrong* about their importance and their answers -- he is not, after all, a Holocaust historian.)

And why do you lie that Shermer ever, in any forum, stated that not having evidence is OK?
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Really, I haven't seen anybody say that it is true that absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
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Sure you have. What you *haven't* seen is anyone agreeing with you that the Holocaust is held to a different standard, which is what you lied about everyone else conceeding.
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Since you believe that "important" and "not significant" are synonymous, I assume you are similarly confused about the meaning of "spectacularly failed to demonstrate"
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I stand corrected that Shermer characterized the questions as important in this interview.

He was wrong.
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And you can be assured that the topic is addressed in "the passage" and nowhere else? I suggest you find somebody who is literate as well as reliable to do your homework for you.
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Where else than under the heading "UFOs and Alien Abductions" is the matter discussed?
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It's important to you, not me. You show me on what page he doesn't.
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Any of them. Go ahead -- prove me wrong by citing the page number.

Prove me wrong by citing anyone here conceeding that the Holocaust has been held to a different standard.

Prove me wrong by citing any Holocaust historian or court case who cite the experiences of Dov Landau.

Prove me wrong by actually citing equivalent pieces of evidence which you can show were handled differently (*not* that they simply led a different conclusion).

Or continue flailing -- we have a pool going as to how long you can keep up the farce you've created before you stamp your feet and leave this part of the thread. I've taken one of the longer slots, don't let me down.
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And Katyn is not the only scientifically investigated WW II massacre, there is also Vinnitsa,
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... which took place prior to WWII
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swept under the rug by the historians/media,
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... if by "swept under the rug", one means "has had several books written about it."
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but well documented nonetheless by .... the Nazis.

See.... noting the incredible fact that accurate WW II history is only available from William Pierce and David Duke ....
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Really? Where does either discuss the testimony of Erwin Bingel regarding the 58k people that the Nazis exterminated in Vinnitsa? Those actually took place during WWII...
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Actually there is just such a cult in Russia - they deny the Soviets committed the crime, continue to blame the Nazis, and contest the documentary etc evidence in ways that are shall we say, reminiscent of our denier friends. Despite the apparent ideological divide, they even associate with Holocaust deniers. There's a photograph of Yuri Mukhin together with Carlo Mattogno and Juergen Graf.
I stand corrected. I read the email exchange but there was a lot more going on than I could fully grasp. I didn't understand the origins of the accusation that Polish camp victims were dressed up in 2 year old buried Polish officer uniforms and then reburied at Katyn.....although I agree that's a really bizzare conspiracy that makes no sense at all.
 
Imprinting and the Holocaust.

We all, here, know Elie Wiesel is a despicable liar.

Yet the Camden Courier Post saw fit to use a quote of his(rotflmao) as their daily cryptogram.
 
Imprinting and the Holocaust.

We all, here, know Elie Wiesel is a despicable liar.

Yet the Camden Courier Post saw fit to use a quote of his(rotflmao) as their daily cryptogram.

Speaking of liars, when are you going to face up to your many many lies in this thread?

Is trolling all you have left?
 
Duly noted that Saggy--who declared himself unable to contend with the 200 credible witnesses mentioned by Nick Terry and requested the name of just one such witness so that he could
proceed to demolish his/her lies
--is apparently just as unable to contend with a single name, that of Oscar Strawczynski, about whom he has remained silent for a week or so, when he'd promised us a demolition.
 
Duly noted that Saggy--who declared himself unable to contend with the 200 credible witnesses mentioned by Nick Terry and requested the name of just one such witness so that he could --is apparently just as unable to contend with a single name, that of Oscar Strawczynski, about whom he has remained silent for a week or so, when he'd promised us a demolition.

Just a glance at Strawczynski's 'testimony' reveals that it is totally incompatible with the holohoax ....

“At first they wanted to persuade us with nice words. An important person from Lublin came to the camp, gathered us together and spoke to us. We were told that a “Jewish city” was being established and that the Jews would be granted full autonomy there, and if we would work with dedication and earn their trust we would receive leadership positions in the Jewish city."

... as per the holohoax the Nazis didn't persuade the Jews at all but led them from the train to the gas chamber. Strawczynski directly contradicts the holohoax. This is what constitutes 'evidence' for the Zionists.

There is not a single credible Jewish witness to the holohoax.

Now, if you'll give the name of ONE JEWISH WITNESS, and summarize their testimony and how it confirms the holohoax, we'll proceed. I'm not going to waste my time looking up more names.
 
Saggy said:
... as per the holohoax the Nazis didn't persuade the Jews at all but led them from the train to the gas chamber. Strawczynski directly contradicts the holohoax. This is what constitutes 'evidence' for the Zionists.

Wow, I mean really, just wow. You know nothing, absolutly nothing, about the holocaust. If there are parallel universes, you are completly clueless about the holocaust in every single one of them.

You won't convince anyone and you cannot be convinced since you're just a hopeless hatemonger, so even the slightest attempt of talking to you is just a big waste of *********** time.
 
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Wow, I mean really, just wow. You know nothing, absolutly nothing, about the holocaust. If there are parallel universes, you are completly clueless about the holocaust in every single one of them.

You won't convince anyone and you cannot be convinced since you're just a hopeless hatemonger, so even the slightest attempt of talking to you is just a big waste of *********** time.



Seems to me that Saggy presented facts and you ignored them.

Just a glance at Strawczynski's 'testimony' reveals that it is totally incompatible with the holohoax ....

“At first they wanted to persuade us with nice words. An important person from Lublin came to the camp, gathered us together and spoke to us. We were told that a “Jewish city” was being established and that the Jews would be granted full autonomy there, and if we would work with dedication and earn their trust we would receive leadership positions in the Jewish city."

... as per the holohoax the Nazis didn't persuade the Jews at all but led them from the train to the gas chamber. Strawczynski directly contradicts the holohoax. This is what constitutes 'evidence' for the Zionists.

There is not a single credible Jewish witness to the holohoax.

Now, if you'll give the name of ONE JEWISH WITNESS, and summarize their testimony and how it confirms the holohoax, we'll proceed. I'm not going to waste my time looking up more names.
 
Seems to me that Saggy presented facts and you ignored them.

No, he either presented his ignorance or lied. Present evidence, that the nazis just brought to jews to gas chamber without any kind of persuasion:

Saggy said:
the Nazis didn't persuade the Jews at all but led them from the train to the gas chamber

Go on, what are you waiting for? Show us at least one story of a holocaust survivor without this element. But you and I already know, that you won't, because you are as pathetic as your buddy. I gotta say, even by conspiracy whack job standards you guys are pathetic.
 
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OTOH, you pretty much never answer a direct question, present a fact or even have the backbone to state a case.
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Say what? Here's the case: the holohoax is a complete fraud, perpetrated by world Jewry, for the express purpose of blackmailing the world to acquiesce in the rape of Palestine and for untold billions of dollars of 'reparations'.

The fraud is evident in every instance, for example the writings of the Nobel Prize winner and first director of the USHMM holohoax museum Elie Wiesel, who writes in the book 'Night' ....

"Babies were thrown into the air and the machine gunners used them as targets."


All holohoax testimony consists of prima facie degenerate lies just like this one.

The Zionists cannot produce ONE CREDIBLE JEWISH WITNESS.

Bradley Smith waged a campaign on college campuses for the last year challenging the phony academics to name one person gassed at Auschwitz, and the academics ran, to the last/man woman, like the cowards they are, like chickens fleeing the hound. ACADEMIA WILL NOT IDENTIFY ONE SINGLE GASSING VICTIM.

It's all a complete hoax. THERE HAS BEEN NOT A SINGLE FORENSIC INVESTIGATION of a holohoax grave.

Etc.
 
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