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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Nick Terry said:
That is a very tall claim. Care to provide any, y'know, evidence for it?
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Well, if the bodies weren't removed from the gas chamber, nobody else could be gassed until the dead people inside rotted away. That would have effectively shut down the holocaust.


Are you seriously comparing the position of the Trawnikis, who were all given a choice about serving, and who if serving in the Reinhard camps spent all their spare time *********** prostitutes and drinking themselves silly in neighbouring villages to which they had walked like any other soldier off-duty going out on the razz, with the position of the Sonderkommandos?
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Yes. SK and Judenrat could have refused to do the tasks assigned to them. They certainly could have refused to share in the spoils. Any who didn't are clearly guilty of mass murder--and mass murder of their own to boot.



Please present the prosecution case against the Judenraete and Sonderkommandos, to at least the same standard of evidence as you demand from others when they accuse the Nazis of being guilty of murder.
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The theory behind the latest Demanjuk prosecution is that anybody who worked in one of the pure death camps was complicit in mass murder. That would mean EVERYBODY unless there's a double standard going on.


Please identify the Sonderkommando or Judenrat member called "Bube" or "Zeidy", or stfu, as it's patently obvious you don't know what the **** you are talking about.
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I forgot. You're not Jewish. Learning a little Yiddish might help you.
 
Ah HA!

Yiddish original, in Polish translation
Music: From a threnody by Aleksander Wertyński
Words: Aaron Liebeskind

“Aaron Liebeskind, a young clockmaker from Bilgoraj, Poland, was forced to witness the murder of his wife, Edith, and of his little son in 1942 in the extermination camp, Treblinka (located at Małkinia Górna, on the Bug river in Poland). He begged the foreman of the crematorium to let him stay the night watching over his son's body. Aaron knelt beside his boy's body and composed the words of this lullaby in his mind. During the night the twenty-four old man turned grey. He managed miraculously to escape from Treblinka, but was captured again and sent to Sachsenhausen, where he met and made friends with Alex Kulisiewicz. Aaron told Alex his story and sang him the song in Yiddish, which Alex immediately translated into Polish. The melody is that of a popular threnody, well known in Eastern Poland, composed by the famous Russian song writer, Alexander Wertyński (1889-1957). In Sachsenhausen, Liebeskind sang with a deep, basso profundo voice in Rosebery d'Arguto's illegal camp chorus. Aaron Liebeskind was among those Jewish prisoners who in 1942 were transported to Auschwitz-Birkenau. He died there in 1942-43. In commemoration of his friend's tragedy, Kulisiewicz sang the “Lullaby” in Polish until the end of his stay in Sachsenhausen (April 1945).”

Krematorium czarne, głuche
Bramy piekieł, trupów stos
Śliskie, sztywne ciała wloke
Osiwiałem w jedną noc
Oto synek leży, synek mój,
Małe piąstki w usta wgryzł,
Jakżeż ciebie w ogień wrzucę tu!
Złote włoski śliczne twe

Lulaj, lulaj – synku mój
Lulaj, lulaj – synku mój
Lulaj, lulaj – synku mój
Synku mój

Podłe słońce, czemu milczysz?
Wszak widziałem wszystko tu.
Głowkę jego roztrzaskali
O kamienny, zimny mur
Patrzą w niebo ciche oczka twe
I zastygłe krzyczą łzy
Synku! Wszędzie twoja krew!
A przeżyłeś latka – trzy.

Lulaj, lulaj – synku mój
Lulaj, lulaj – synku mój
Lulaj, lulaj – synku mój
Synku mój.

LULLABY FOR MY LITTLE SON IN THE CREMATORIUM

Crematorium black and silent
Gates of hell, corpses piled high
I drag stiff, slippery corpses
While the sun smiles in the sky
Here he lies, my only little boy,
Tiny fists pressed in his mouth
How can I cast you into the flames
With your shining golden hair?

Lulay, lulay – little one
Lulay, lulay – only son
Lulay, lulay – my own boy...
Oy...oy...oy...

Oh you sun, you watched in silence,
While you shined and smiled above
Saw them smash my baby's skull
On the cold stone wall
Now little eyes look calmly at the sky
Cold tears, I hear them crying
Oh my boy, your blood is everywhere
Three years old – your golden hair

Lulay, lulay – little one
Lulay, lulay – only son
Lulay, lulay – my own boy...
Oy...oy...oy...
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Hoaxing in its most sublime lunacy.
 
Mondial said:
The main arguments of Swiss holocaust revisionist Jurgen Graf are in his book "Holocaust or Hoax?" which is available online - www.vho.org/GB/Books/hoh/index.html#Contents
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Gosh, thanks for that. I certainly enjoyed Graf & Mattogno's "Treblinka: Transit camp or Extermination camp". After reading through all those pages of rubbish Graf & Mottogno reach this amazing conclusion "Above all, it is entirely unclear where the Jews deported to Treblinka ultimately wound up"

This is odd considering the Station Master at Treblinka, Franciszek Zabecki kept the train records and no trains with settlers left Treblinka. I guess that's why Graf and Mottogno don't mention Zabecki in their "work"...

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/

( By the way Graf lives in Iran. PO Box 19395/7161, Tehran He ran from Switzerland 12 years ago. )
 
little grey rabbit said:
As ever, I await Mr Caution's answer with keen anticipation - when he pulls his finger out and responds.
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This would be worthy of a response - we are discussing whether witnesses lied and lied pathologically - why? You made no argument whatsoever - just random observations of your usual sort, in this case ones that do not speak to credibility but which do seem to indicate that testimonies were not coordinated in a Moscow Forgery Factory.
 
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LemmyCaution said:
This would be worthy of a response - we are discussing whether witnesses lied and lied pathologically - why? You made no argument whatsoever - just random observations of your usual sort, in this case ones that do not speak to credibility but which do seem to indicate that testimonies were not coordinated in a Moscow Forgery Factory.
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Nice dodge, but you didnt answer Erich Hunt's question

"The Star of David on the front wall of Treblinka's gas house, and the Hebrew inscriptions on the curtain that hung at the entrance that read, "This is the gate through which the righteous pass." Which one is true, believers?"

Inquiring minds would like to know, Mr Caution.
 
little grey rabbit said:
BTW, is there anything more stupid than that song? They didn't even have a crematorium at Treblinka!
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Lullaby - a quiet song to lull a child to sleep.

What a lovely way to fall asleep! Smash the baby's skull! Jesus, is there no difference betweem satire and reality anymore? Was there no crematorium at Treblinka? Is the guy who wrote it completely out of his mind?

I bet he put those words to the music of "Knees Up Mother Brown".

There is so much nonsense regarding the Holocaust that no one knows what to think anymore. I've still got photos of skin lampshades that were shown to me 30 years ago burnt into my retinas.
 
little grey rabbit said:
Nice dodge, but you didnt answer Erich Hunt's question

"The Star of David on the front wall of Treblinka's gas house, and the Hebrew inscriptions on the curtain that hung at the entrance that read, "This is the gate through which the righteous pass." Which one is true, believers?"

Inquiring minds would like to know, Mr Caution.
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In what strange world does repeating an idiotic question improve it? Inquiring minds would like to know the answer to this.
 
I don't actually care what the convicted criminal and stalker of Elie Wiesel says about curtains. It's curtains for you. You have 200 witnesses to deal with and you are going on as usual, this time about anomalous curtains and stars of David. I see now that you are suckering more ignorant posters here into your eternal BS Little Grey Rabbit.

For Liszt's response is BS too. He knows nothing whatsoever about lullabies.
 
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uke2se said:
Nevertheless, Saggy picked just a single person out of over 200 named ones, and out of tens of thousands of unnamed ones, making my statement quite demonstrably not "nonsense".

Saggy also failed miserably - yet again - to demonstrate his repeated assertion that the single person - out of tens of thousands - that he picked (the very essence of cherry picking) was lying in any way shape or form.



On the contrary, as Saggy has been shown numerous times on this thread, there are mountains of evidence. The reason Saggy doesn't think the veritable treasure trove of evidence is "credible" is because he can't without destroying his delusion.



Once again, Saggy wildly asserts something with no evidence whatsoever. It is as if, to him, simple assertion is the same as evidence. Of course, every single person who has as little as a high school education would know that assertion isn't the same as evidece. That Saggy apparently lacks this knowledge speaks to his own lack of education, alternatively his complete lack of rationality.



As Saggy well knows, over 200 have been named, and there are tens of thousands of others to chose from. His outright denial of what is clearly stated in this very thread is getting ridiculous, but then, so is holocaust denial.
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Saggy failed. Saggy is getting a timeout. Please pick another one out of over 200 named ones for him.
 
Lizst opened his mouth and revealed a gaping nothing. Do you know anything about lullabies Clayton?
 
Liszt was probably being satirical at Little Grey Rabbit's expense. But I would still like to know if any Revisionist Investigator and Truth Seeker can tell me something more about lullabies than that they are: - "a quiet song to lull a child to sleep."
 
Cyrix686 said:
Liszt was probably being satirical at Little Grey Rabbit's expense. But I would still like to know if any Revisionist Investigator and Truth Seeker can tell me something more about lullabies than that they are: - "a quiet song to lull a child to sleep."
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Skull smashing? In a lullaby?


http://translate.google.com/transla....antiwarsongs.org/canzone.php?id=3662&lang=en



Original Yiddish, in Polish translation
Music: From a Threnody by Alexander Wertyński
Words: Aaron Liebeskind

"Aaron Liebeskind, a young Clockmaker from Bilgoraj, Poland, was forced to witness the murder of His Wife, Edith, and of His little son in 1942 in the extermination camp, Treblinka (located at Upper Malkinia, on the Bug River in Poland) . He begged the foreman of the crematorium to let him stay the night watching over his son's body. Aaron knelt beside His boy's body and Composed the words of this lullaby In His Mind. During the night of the twenty-four old man turned gray. He miraculously managed to escape from Treblinka, but was captured again and sent to Sachsenhausen, the where he met and made friends with Alex Kulisiewicz. Aaron Alex Told His Story and sang him the song in Yiddish, Which Immediately Alex translated into Polish. Is That The melody of a popular Threnody, well known in Eastern Poland, Composed by the famous Russian song writer, Alexander Wertyński (1889-1957). In Sachsenhausen, Liebeskind sang with a deep, basso profundo voice in Rosebery d'Arguto's illegal camp chorus. Aaron Liebeskind was among the Jewish prisoners Those who in 1942 were transported to Auschwitz-Birkenau. He died there in 1942-1943. In commemoration of His friend's tragedy, Kulisiewicz sang the "Lullaby" in Polish until the end of His stay in Sachsenhausen (April 1945). "
Crematorium black, deaf
The gates of hell, a pile of corpses
Slippery, rigid body drag
Osiwiałem in one night
Here lies old son, my son,
Small fists into his mouth devoured,
How could you throw into the fire here!
Your beautiful Italian Gold

Lulaj, lulaj - my son
Lulaj, lulaj - my son
Lulaj, lulaj - my son
My son

Ugly sun, why are you silent?
After all, I've seen everything here.
His head smashed
A stone, cold wall
They look in your eyes silent sky
I cry frozen tears
My son! Everywhere your blood!
And you survived the summer - three.

Lulaj, lulaj - my son
Lulaj, lulaj - my son
Lulaj, lulaj - my son
My son.

inserted on 2006/2/12 - 19:39
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Of course, why do you have such a problem with it?
Great sweetheart of all people of the world
They spilled your blood yesterday
And afterwards they put your head upon a sharp pole
A short distance from your body.
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That verse is from a far older lullaby. Do you lot think that a baby understands words? Of course not. Sounds, rhythm and tunes, perhaps. Meanings. No. You think a composition in lullaby form is unique because it contains murderous imagery? Nothing of the kind. A recent academic study into the lullaby genre (yes song-scholarship into lullabies is possible) found that in Non Indo European Finno-Urgric and also in IE Slavic cultures, that there were plenty of lullabies to be found dealing with violence. The rabbit's Yiddish offering is therefore not unusual in the genre. World-wide it would not be unusual.

Ignorance is to be expected. Of course I wouldn't expect any of you deniers to know of these things, how can you possibly when monotonous incredulity is your diet.

But now you do. I've also saved Saggy and Chipzilla from looking foolish.

LGR's silly whining about crematoria imagery is equally pathetic and not worth pursuing
 
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link?

Ahahahah.

There's nothing funnier than someone looking up lullaby info on google then dismissing others for being ignorant.
 
Correction, there is nothing funnier than watching a denier shoot themselves in the foot through their own appalling ignorance.
 
"...and down will come baby, cradle and all."

Kid falls out of a tree.

Very soothing.
 
Clayton I knew of Cumha Ghriogair long before I joined JREF.

In fact to prove it to you, here's the verse again in its original language.

Eudail mhor de shluagh an domhainn
dhoirt iad t-fhuil an de
S' chuir iad do cheann air stob daraich
tacan beag bho' d' chre.

Other verses of the lament go on about her drinking the murdered man's blood, which is a Pagan belief. See if I pulled that one off Google, Clayton. Please don't allot to other people necessarily the same woeful level of ignorance and vacant incredulity that are your own denier stock in trade tools of choice.
 
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