Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Clayton Moore]

Dogzilla sets out his arguments and counter arguments. This allows discussion. People reading this thread know what he is saying. They may not agree, but points are made, facts are presented and discussion continues. That is the point of this thread.

When you are presented with evidence you "rip pages out of books", say "crapola" and base your views on your guess work. You become a cartoon character of a "holocaust denier" for our amusement. You can't complain about Jewish media "manipulation" conspiracies when you yourself discard real evidence being presented against your claims. It makes you look a "bit slow" and hypocritical. If you want the holocaust denial movement to get a fair hearing you should simply stop posting and let more mature advocates do the arguing.

When someone tells you to stop posting your view you know you're kicking butt.

 

[abaddon]

I have to agree with Wroclaw here. Somebody provides a source and you respond with "I've ripped out that page of double talk and flushed it. Now what?"

You're not helping your credibility here one bit. What's worse is you're making me agree with Wroclaw. I hate it when I agree with Wroclaw and I don't think he likes it much either. Knock it off!

Well, credit where it's due. Even you can see the stupidity, and had the courage to point it out, moreover. Kudos

 

[Clayton Moore]

Because he didn't specifically deny killing millions of Jews, he didn't deny the holocaust? He didn't deny killing millions of Laotians. He didn't deny using steam chambers to kill anybody. He didn't deny persecuting pedophiles. He didn't deny any of those things because he wasn't accused of doing any of those things. He wasn't accused of killing millions of Jews either. Why would he deny doing something he wasn't accused of doing?

Try again.

He didn't deny using steam chambers to kill anybody.

You need to hammer this type of thing over and over and over. It's the truth.
Beat them down with their own lies. Don't discourse about Othmar's meaningless camp reports.

 

[abaddon]

He didn't deny using steam chambers to kill anybody.

Steam chambers?

You need to hammer this type of thing over and over and over. It's the truth.
Beat them down with their own lies.

Yep. Repetition equals truth in your universe.

Don't discourse about Othmar's meaningless camp reports.

You mean this guy? The one who plucked out eyeballshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otmar_Freiherr_von_Verschuer
Perhaps you need better taste in heroes.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

When someone tells you to stop posting your view you know you're kicking butt.

No Clayton. You are not kicking butt. You are simply repeating a denial position without argument. "crapola" and "I ripped out the page" are not deep counter arguments are they? They mean "I'm running away as I can't answer this"

 

[little grey rabbit]

But I got news for you: multiple witnesses and even the nazis themselves claim, that the little nice house in the picture I posted, has three gas chambers, at least one room with a heavy tank motor, that the gas chambers have shower heads, a vent, that went through the roof to let the gas out after their operation, white tiles on the walls to a certain height, a terra cotta floor, an iron door with a peep hole on the one side and a huge garage door out of strong wood on the other side, where also a ramp was and so on and on.

And the photo even matches these descriptions miraculously in certain parts like the style of the roof, the gas chambers being out of concrete and the rest of the bulding being out of wood, a vent seems to be visible on the roof and of course there seems to be a ramp beginning on the left.

Funny, the building in your photo looks remarkably similar to this building, a bakery

What on earth is it about bakeries that make you Jews describe them as gas chambers?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

He didn't deny using steam chambers to kill anybody.

Clayton... Steam chamber appears in one early eyewitness report together with the words gas chamber. This report was reproduced in the Black Book of Polish Jewry. However I don't think you know how this American publication obtained this report. Can you set out your full understanding of where the error "steam chambers" comes from.

I don't think you know anything. I don't think you have ever finished a book. Prove me wrong.

 

[LemmyCaution]

. . . that make you Jews . . .?

Say what?

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

Sorry. I should have been clearer. Witness number 1, 3, and 4 did tell our investigators about your gas chamber and identified it as such.

Why? Why would they describe it as a gas chamber, when it was a simple garage? And did they describe crucial details (things you won't find in this constellation in other kinds of rooms) like fake shower heads, a motor room in the same building, a vent through the roof, a ramp in front of the garage door, gas tight doors with peep holes, the usage of stretchers and excavaters to get rid of the bodies and so on?

Because that is the problem with your false analogy, you have no convergence of evidence in such details. All you got is a few guys, who claim to have seen something without any reason. There is nothing that shows my garage to be a gas chamber. Thats not exactly the case for the little building in the picture. There is also no one describing a gassing operation in your analogy or how I had to get rid of the bodies.

We know about the euphemistic language because your son told us. Initially he lied out of loyalty to you but after we beat him senseless, threatened to rape his sister and mother, and denied him food for two weeks he was overcome with guilt and wanted to unburden his conscience. He says you frequently referred to the gas chamber as the "garage."

What you are doing here is classic denial. You don't believe the evidence, because it could have been faked or manipulated. I got news for you: EVERYTHING could have been faked. But nobody sees you or me walking around and looking for errors in the matrix and fighting agents. You have no evidence, that any perpretrator testimony that mentioned the code words is fake and you only believe this, because you want to. Thats nothing different from the creationist way of saying "God planted these sceletons to prove my faith."

But again your analogy doesn't work, because we have documents, that make clear what the meaning of words like Sonderbehandlung is:

(4) In besonders schweren Fällen ist beim Reichssicherheitshauptamt Sonderbehandlung(3) unter Angabe der Personalien und des genauen Tatbestandes zu beantragen.

(5) Die Sonderbehandlung(3) erfolgt durch Strang. Sie soll nicht in unmittelbarer Umgebung des Lagers stattfinden. Eine gewisse Anzahl von Arbeitskräften aus dem altsowjetrussischen Gebiet soll der Sonderbehandlung beiwohnen; ihnen ist dabei der Tatbestand, der zur Sonderbehandlung führte, warnend bekanntzugeben.

(6) Sollte aus Gründen der Lagerdisziplin ausnahmsweise Sonderbehandlung im Lager erforderlich sein, ist dies mit zu beantragen.

Do I need to translate this? Sonderbehandlung by hanging, well that kind of kills you and thats what it is, a codeword for killing.

And I already mentioned the usage of other names for the two Leichenkeller in for example Krema II at Auschwitz.

And what about Suchomel, Erber or other nazis, that were interviewed? Are these reporters all in it and are now torturing them into confessions in front of the camera?

Funny, the building in your photo looks remarkably similar to this building, a bakery

What on earth is it about bakeries that make you Jews describe them as gas chambers?

Just to give the comparison:

So this finally it. Can it get any more stupid than this? You really don't see, that the height of your building doesn't fit and your building has windows everywhere, the old Treblinka gas chamber had only windows on the side that was visible from the tube (not visislbe in the photo). Also your building has no ramp and is not a mixture out of wood and concrete structures.

And of course, you have no evidence (again), that your bakery was described by eyewitnesses as a gas chamber.

 

[little grey rabbit]

Say what?

My apologies, Jews and Mr Caution, as Mr Caution is also convinced of that the true nature of Krema II and III were in fact bakeries.

I agree that the photo that you have stamped "gas chambers" has no windows - but since apart from Majdanek and Sachsenhausen, it makes no sense to have windows in a gas chambers, I assume that the image was fudged a bit.

You are of course all aware that the Gerichtsassessor who raided Franz's home confessed under oath to having stuck additional photos in the socalled Franz album?

So Mr Silbstedt, if you are so convinced this is a gas chamer - why not put a red cross on one of Wiernik's maps that you think marks the location of the camera?

I mean aside from sheer cowardice.

 

[LemmyCaution]

My apologies, Jews and Mr Caution, as Mr Caution is also convinced of that the true nature of Krema II and III were in fact bakeries.

Say what?

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

that the true nature of Krema II and III were in fact bakeries

We are all still waiting for a proof of that.

I agree that the photo that you have stamped "gas chambers" has no windows - but since apart from Majdanek and Sachsenhausen, it makes no sense to have windows in a gas chambers, I assume that the image was fudged a bit.

Of course, what again was the version of Adobe Photoshop back than?

Classic denial:
Photos: fudged
audio tapes: faked
Eyewitnesses: liars
Confessions: made under torture
documents: faked or meant something else
physical evidence: faked

And all this without a single shred of proof. But hey, when a piece of evidence seems to be useful for the nazi scumbags, you don't hear such things from them.

You are of course all aware that the Gerichtsassessor who raided Franz's home confessed under oath to having stuck additional photos in the socalled Franz album?

1. No I'm not. But hey, feel free to proof that. Wouldn't be the first time you distort a text, you already tried that to "prove" that the Himmler speech is a fake (BTW: It was Himmler, you only have to compare his voice and pronounciation to other tapes).
2. What were these additional photos? Of course you have to proof, that this picture above is one of them.
3. Apart from who made these pictures, what, if not Treblinka, were they showing?

So Mr Silbstedt, if you are so convinced this is a gas chamer - why not put a red cross on one of Wiernik's maps that you think marks the location of the camera?

And the point would be? I think you already wasted my time enough. I'm not the one making extra ordinary claims based on nothing, so why don't you show us the problem?

 

[little grey rabbit]

And the point would be. I think you already wasted my time enough. I'm not the one making extra ordinary claims based on nothing, so why don't you show us the problem?

Just hold on while I parse that paragraph through Google Hoax Translater.

waiting waiting waiting....:
"I don't believe this photo is a gas chamber and I certainly can't make any meaningful reconstruction using Wiernik's various maps, so I will distract attention by a bit of flaming."

Why thank you Mr Google, this is a wonderful addition to your suite of products.

 

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

Just hold on while I parse that paragraph through Google Hoax Translater.

waiting waiting waiting....:
"I don't believe this photo is a gas chamber and I certainly can't make any meaningful reconstruction using Wiernik's various maps, so I will distract attention by a bit of flaming."

Why thank you Mr Google, this is a wonderful addition to your suite of products.

Your concluding from the fact, that I haven't proven you wrong in this matter, that you are right and I'm not even believing my own stuff.

BORING!

Make your claim (which you haven't even made, but I guess your trying to find another hole in the theory of evo..., I meant the holocaust narrative) and prove it!

Oh, and flaming does not necessarily mean, that you want to distract from something, it could as well just mean, that you are annoying.

 

[Wroclaw]

Because he didn't specifically deny killing millions of Jews, he didn't deny the holocaust?

Given that killing millions of Jews was among the charges, yes, that's correct.

He didn't deny killing millions of Laotians.

That wasn't among the charges.

He didn't deny using steam chambers to kill anybody.

That's because no one did.

He didn't deny persecuting pedophiles.

Persecuting pedophiles isn't a war crime.

He didn't deny any of those things because he wasn't accused of doing any of those things.

True.

He wasn't accused of killing millions of Jews either. Why would he deny doing something he wasn't accused of doing?

I disagree. It's in the general indictment.

Try again.

No, you try again. You attempted a false equivalency and it failed.

 

[Wroclaw]

A poster notes a single page of vague inference of the mechanics of a German genocide against the Jewish people of Europe out of 10s of thousands pages, maybe even 100s of thousands of pages written by the three key players of the allied powers. I dismiss it as nonsense and you tell me to knock it off.

I find it cute that you responded to Dogzilla twice without his responding to you a second time.

Maybe you've forgotten that the key to propagating the Holocaust myth is to throw crap after crap after crap into history as if it is the absolute truth.

Maybe you've forgotten that all I have to do to prove false your claim that Churchill doesn't mention murder of Jews in his volumes on the war is provide a single instance of his doing same.

The guy puts up one page of nonsense and I'm supposed to treat it like it like meaningful information/debate.

Yes.

You need to WTFU.

Luke 4:23, my friend.

 

[Wroclaw]

When someone tells you to stop posting your view you know you're kicking butt.

Wow.

 

[Wroclaw]

Well, credit where it's due. Even you can see the stupidity, and had the courage to point it out, moreover. Kudos

I agree.

Look, none of us is laboring under the impression that we respect the other side of this debate, but it's helpful to the overall process that people concede what amount to minor points when those points are disproved. That goes for my side as well.

It's not as if Churchill mentioning the murder of Jews in Greece ultimately proves Dogzilla's side of this debate, anyway.

 

[Wroclaw]

Repetition equals truth in your universe.

There must truly be "no place like home."

 

[Wroclaw]

What on earth is it about bakeries that make you Jews describe them as gas chambers?

And the mask is fully off...