Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
That page had a photo of a Luftwaffe Mig-29. I didn't know the modern Germany armed forces had kept East German fighter aircraft. It was simply interesting.

I must admit, I was intrigued by that too. The idea that re-unified Germany was operating former Soviet fighters as part of it's armed forces was a tad incongruous.

Then again, I remember my astonishment when the Wall came down. Sometimes the real world can be quite odd.
 
lol - that site is maintained by supporters of your champion. It is they that added the video titles

Such as "I dont hate Jews. I dislike intensely their parasitic nature"

Maybe he should have stuck with his Nazi UFO at the south pole routine.

I think Gene needs to check what the word "fail" means while he's checking the meaning of the word "purveyor". After all, someone exclaiming "FAIL" while failing miserably himself is pretty much the height of irony.
 
I think Gene needs to check what the word "fail" means while he's checking the meaning of the word "purveyor". After all, someone exclaiming "FAIL" while failing miserably himself is pretty much the height of irony.


Here is an example of "purveyers of hate" who provably "incite others to commit violence". This is just one of many. How many of these hate mongers have been arrested and tried for hate speech in Germany, or deported from Canada? Amazing, ain't it?


http://www.zundelsite.org/debate/faurisson_beaten.html


"Someone who has provoked the Jewish community for years
should expect this sort of thing [a vicious, near-fatal beating]."



- Nazi-hunter Serge Klarsfeld on the savage attack against Professor Faurisson



Questioned Holocaust, historian badly beaten
Toronto Globe and Mail | Monday, Sept. 18, 1989, p. A5

Reuter

CLERMONT-FERRAND, France



A leading French revisionist historian who denies that millions of Jews were killed in the Holocaust was recovering from surgery yesterday after a savage beating.



Robert Faurisson, 60, suffered a broken jaw and ribs and severe head injuries in the attack by three youths while he was walking his dog in the town of Vichy.



A hospital spokesman in Clermont-Ferrand, the central French city where he was transferred for surgery, said Mr. Faurisson's condition was stable.



"He was conscious, but he couldn't speak," said a fire fighter who gave Mr. Faurisson first aid. "His jaw was smashed. They destroyed his face."



A previously unknown group, The Sons of the Memory of the Jews, took responsibility for the attack, saying those who deny the Holocaust should "beware."



Veteran Nazi-hunters Serge and Beate Klarsfeld said they were not surprised by the attack. "Someone who has provoked the Jewish community for years should expect this sort of thing [a vicious, near-fatal beating]," Serge Klarsfeld said. <end>

We know who the true purveyers of hate and violence are.

Thanks
 
This is probably one of the stupidest defenses of Holocaust denial that I've seen, but I'll bite.

1.) Do you refuse to believe anything written in any history book unless there is a computer simulation of it? Or is it just the Holocaust you apply this absurd standard to?

2.) Do you believe that any genocides have occurred in history (eg. Stalin's genocides, Mao's genocides, the Armenian genocide, Rwandan genocide, Darfur/Sudanese genocide, Khmer Rouge genocide, etc...)? If you believe in at least one, was there a computer simulation of it?

It's just a matter of connecting the proliferation of dots/events/killings/camp populations/work performed by the camp(s) labor/staging/supplies/guard&support to inmate ratios/methods of moving inmates between camps etc. etc.

Start with the numbers of all the German forces and the support population and their location each year.

Start with the numbers of all the eventual internees and supposed victims and their location each year.

Start with the allocations of resources their recipients each year.

Once you start filling in details the dots will not connect.

And the Holohoax will collapse kerplunk.
 
I think Gene needs to check what the word "fail" means while he's checking the meaning of the word "purveyor". After all, someone exclaiming "FAIL" while failing miserably himself is pretty much the height of irony.

Or it could be winner in a Charlie Sheen kinda way
 
It's just a matter of connecting the proliferation of dots/events/killings/camp populations/work performed by the camp(s) labor/staging/supplies/guard&support to inmate ratios/methods of moving inmates between camps etc. etc.

Start with the numbers of all the German forces and the support population and their location each year.

Start with the numbers of all the eventual internees and supposed victims and their location each year.

Start with the allocations of resources their recipients each year.

Once you start filling in details the dots will not connect.

And the Holohoax will collapse kerplunk.

If it is that easy, then please go ahead and do the exercise. Here is your big chance to be famous
 
If it is that easy, then please go ahead and do the exercise. Here is your big chance to be famous

That's what your Holohoax scholars should be doing since they have all the facts at their fingertips.

They don't because they know the lies would prevent the dots from connecting. Big time.
 
That's what your Holohoax scholars should be doing since they have all the facts at their fingertips.

They don't because they know the lies would prevent the dots from connecting. Big time.

All the more reason for you to prove them wrong. You have access to the data. Whats stopping you? Is not the prize uncovering the biggest lie of the 20th century enough incentive for you
 
WOW Clayton Moore has the proof and the way to 'prove' revisionism - but he cannot be bothered to do it.....hilarious
 
That's what your Holohoax scholars should be doing since they have all the facts at their fingertips.

They don't because they know the lies would prevent the dots from connecting. Big time.

Sounds like you just volunteered to make the case for a holohoax. Go ahead and present it. Saggy and The Bunny's attempts at this are hardly worth mentioning so the field is clear for you to make your mark on history.
 
Here is an example of "purveyers of hate" who provably "incite others to commit violence".

Why did you put "incite others to commit violence" in scare crows? Are you still asserting that I said Zundel incited others to commit violence? Would you please quote any of my posts where I say that? I don't care much for being lied about. Thank you.

Also, are you willing to admit that Ernst Zundel is a purveyor of neo-nazi material and other kinds of hate, including holocaust denial? You know, what the sources we have presented to you said he was?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by uke2se
I think Gene needs to check what the word "fail" means while he's checking the meaning of the word "purveyor". After all, someone exclaiming "FAIL" while failing miserably himself is pretty much the height of irony.

Or it could be winner in a Charlie Sheen kinda way

What is ironic is the fact that Zundel who has been the victim of hate speech which has incited people to commit violence against him and his property, along with Farausson and Leuchter who were also slandered and attacked by thuggish Jewish hate groups were persecured and or prosecuted while none of the hate mongers and criminals have been arrested. That's rich irony!!
 
Why did you put "incite others to commit violence" in scare crows? Are you still asserting that I said Zundel incited others to commit violence? Would you please quote any of my posts where I say that? I don't care much for being lied about. Thank you.

Also, are you willing to admit that Ernst Zundel is a purveyor of neo-nazi material and other kinds of hate, including holocaust denial? You know, what the sources we have presented to you said he was?

From what I have read, Zundel is a purveyer of his own political ideology and his own findings that dispute the standard holocaust narrative. He was falsely charged, railroaded and convicted under ridiculous laws which accuse him of inciting hatred and violence. Yet, he and many others of like mind have been viciously attacked by criminals repeatedly. None of those real hate mongers and criminals have ever been prosecuted. Kinda strange, wouldn't you say?
 
Are you still asserting that I said Zundel incited others to commit violence? Would you please quote any of my posts where I say that? I don't care much for being lied about. Thank you.

The laughable ADL hit peice YOU linked to said:

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/zun...at=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=2&item=zundel

"Zundel as a hypocrite who cultivates a pacifist public image while guiding, aiding and supporting neo-Nazi groups around the world, including some that "propagate violent messages of hate" and work to accomplish "the destruction of governments and multicultural societies."
 
From what I have read, Zundel is a purveyer of his own political ideology and his own findings that dispute the standard holocaust narrative. He was falsely charged, railroaded and convicted under ridiculous laws which accuse him of inciting hatred and violence.

His own political ideology being neo-Nazism. He's a neo-Nazi. Wasn't one of your complaints that he wasn't a neo-Nazi, and here you are plain stating that he is a neo-Nazi?

Yet, he and many others of like mind have been viciously attacked by criminals repeatedly.

And they have in turn viciously attacked others like criminals. Zundel might not have done so physically, but there's plenty of neo-Nazi violence to go around. Would you like me to link you to some examples?

None of those real hate mongers and criminals have ever been prosecuted. Kinda strange, wouldn't you say?

No, it's not strange, considering the real hate monger was prosecuted and convicted.
 
Last edited:
The laughable ADL hit peice YOU linked to said:

Yes, but where did I "repeatedly state" that? You do remember what you yourself wrote, don't you? My assertion was that Zundel was a purveyor of hate. You elect to call neo-Nazism something other than hate for your own, no doubt very personal, reasons. I have proven that Zundel purveyed neo-Nazi - i.e, hate - material. Now, are you done failing so hard? You have a whole holocaust to disprove.

Did you know that there's a difference between "propagate violent messages of hate" and "inciting violence towards Jews"? Why do you feel you have to lie to support your cause? Don't you think that if you have to lie to support your cause, as you obviously do, your cause might not be worth fighting for?

By the way, how's that "Jewish" friend of yours? My guess is that he's Irish-German and the last time he even met a Jew was when he picketed outside a synagogue with the rest of the skin-heads. Am I right?
 
Last edited:
I forgot, I must admit, to add the Alexa traffic rankings for one place which is being implicitly discussed a lot right now

zundelsite.org - 1,872,084
 
It's just a matter of connecting the proliferation of dots/events/killings/camp populations/work performed by the camp(s) labor/staging/supplies/guard&support to inmate ratios/methods of moving inmates between camps etc. etc.

Start with the numbers of all the German forces and the support population and their location each year.

Start with the numbers of all the eventual internees and supposed victims and their location each year.

Start with the allocations of resources their recipients each year.

Once you start filling in details the dots will not connect.

And the Holohoax will collapse kerplunk.

Hey, instead of saying things just to hear yourself talk (it's not as fun for us as you think it is), why don't you answer the questions I asked?

1.) Do you refuse to believe anything written in any history book unless there is a computer simulation of it? Or is it just the Holocaust you apply this absurd standard to?

2.) Do you believe that any genocides have occurred in history (eg. Stalin's genocides, Mao's genocides, the Armenian genocide, Rwandan genocide, Darfur/Sudanese genocide, Khmer Rouge genocide, etc...)? If you believe in at least one, was there a computer simulation of it?
 
And yet, so many years, so many YouTube videos . . . and nada. (I take it neither of you was being facetious?)

Really, neither of you answered Nick's questions . . . How are you going to get through to historians, journalists, the literate public, and the unwashed masses? All of whom turn their noses up, with varying degrees of disgust, at what you are purveying.


Bump for Saggy and Clayton. Indeed, Clayton avoided the question by asking one of his own, a sure sign of someone who wants to change the subject.

But OK, let's try baby steps. Clayton, you posed a question about computer modelling the Holocaust and you think that doing so would prove it was a hoax.

Fine, you can believe what you want, but how would you get that question - which you think is supposedly so crucial - put to academics? What would be the most effective way of getting that question onto the academic agenda?

Would you

a) email academics asking them directly and expecting an answer in 1 hour or less, or give them more time to answer you

b) email academics and throw a sulk when they recommended books to you?

c) write up a paper and declare that computer modelling the Holocaust is the way forward - but then would you submit this paper for peer review, or publish it somewhere else?

d) ask Bradley Smith to take out a student newspaper advert declaring that computer modelling is the way forward to solving the Holocaust question

e) spend your own money to take out an advert

f) print up flyers

g) start your own blog

h) tell random strangers on an internet forum about computer modelling of the Holocaust, and then throw a sulk when they tell you to read a book?

i) other
 
All the more reason for you to prove them wrong. You have access to the data. Whats stopping you? Is not the prize uncovering the biggest lie of the 20th century enough incentive for you
Clayton has backed himself into another corner--on 2 counts, the deportations and the camp system. At core, revisionism claims that the gassings didn't take place on the basis of the assertion that there is no direct evidence for gas chambers -- and sometimes that the open air shootings were exaggerated or not directed at Jews or part of the fallout of war. In fact, revisionists generally answer the question "Where then are the Jews, in this case?", that they were deported east. The massive evidence for deportation forces most revisionists to take this position aside from the fact that there is in fact no evidence for it. Revisionists thus handwave away all the evidence for gas chambers and yet concoct a logistically complex scenario for deportations into the deep recesses of the east, during wartime, for which there exists not a scintilla of evidence.

Clayton is different to this, denying much more.

Now, Clayton must realize, the logistically complex and large-scale operation was the deportations, not the operation of the killing camps. In fact, the death camps and killing operations in camps were the tiniest tip of a very large iceberg. The Third Reich operated a growing number of camps of various types during the war years -- 33 Stammlager (main concentration camps), with 1300 subcamps; forced labor camps for foreigners, camps for labor reeducation, transit camps, collection camps, etc. By 1939, on war's eve, the numbers incarcerated in camps within the Nazi system was dropping and had hit 21,400. It was during the war, in fact, the very time at which Clayton claims logistical impossibility, that the camp system grew explosively. By January 1945 almost three quarters of a million people were incarcerated in the various camps and subcamps of the Third Reich--nearly 35 times as many as when the war began. This growth occurred despite frightfully high death rates in the camps. Note to Clayton: This is not about the Jews; it concerns Nazi camps for variously defined offenders, from political enemies to habitual criminals, from asocials to race mixers, from vagrants to ruffians, from Gypsies to gays. Somehow the Germans managed to establish a far-flung camp system, bring into camps 100s of 1000s during the war, and maintain them in the camps despite the material requirements of the war effort.

Yet, according to Clayton, the killing operations were logistically impossible. So, thinking of just the pure killing camps, consider the effort that went into running them as opposed to camps housing inmates indefinitely. On average, each of the 3 Aktion Reinhardt camps had 20-40 German SS officers and noncoms. These had about 100 guards, Ukrainians or ethnic Germans trained at Trawniki. For the 3 camps, then, the total number of overseers and guards was about 450. In 1943, by comparison, the Wehrmacht handed down 2,880 death sentences for soldiers guilty of various infractions. The Aktion Reinhardt camps themselves, we need to remind Clayton, were crude and minimally functional, and built by slave labor

What was logistically and bureaucratically complex was the deportation of 100s of 1000s of Jews to the death camps and to Auschwitz-Birkenau. Contrary to Clayton's insinuations, scholars have dealt with the deportations in great detail. Consider Hilberg alone. The evidence for the deportations -- from railway records to eyewitness -- is massive. Nor was the removal of the Jews and their shipment out of Reich and occupied zones the only instance of Nazi population policy which employed forced population movement, with the efforts and coordination such actions entailed: in fact, during the early occupation of Poland Himmler oversaw a program of forced removals of Poles and Jews and movements west of ethnic Germans. A good source for these logistically demanding operations is Gotz Aly's book, "Final Solution": Nazi Population Policy and the Murder of the European Jews.

So Clayton Moore will need to deny the war years' camp system and the massive wartime deportations and population engineering of the Nazis in order to sustain his illiterate claim to the logistical impossibility of the mass murder program in the camps.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom