Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Clayton Moore said:
So you're saying 44 - 660 pounds of wood per body? Lets say 150. 100,000 cremations is 15 million pounds of wood? Not including the wands to cut down the trees and bring them to the site. Makes you wonder what those laborers were doing before they started chopping down, cutting up, and moving those trees?

Which should be a basic concern, but isn't, of these self proclaimed historians. What were all the German's associated
with these new "death camps" doing before 1942 that was no longer a priority to the war effort?
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The only "self-proclaimed" historians are you deniers, clayton. Real historians tend to disagree with you.
 
Clayton Moore said:
So you're saying 44 - 660 pounds of wood per body? Lets say 150. 100,000 cremations is 15 million pounds of wood?
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There's about 1750 lbs of wood in a single pine tree, with pines being the most common tree in Poland. That's enough, based on your calculations, to burn almost 12 bodies. Burning six million bodies would take half a million trees, then. Forests tend to run about 100 trees per acre. That's 5000 acres, or 7.8 square miles.

Poland encompasses over 100,000 square miles.

I don't think what you suggest would be a problem.
 
Wroclaw said:
There's about 1750 lbs of wood in a single pine tree, with pines being the most common tree in Poland. That's enough, based on your calculations, to burn almost 12 bodies. Burning six million bodies would take half a million trees, then. Forests tend to run about 100 trees per acre. That's 5000 acres, or 7.8 square miles.

Poland encompasses over 100,000 square miles.

I don't think what you suggest would be a problem.
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As usual it makes you wonder what those laborers were doing before they started chopping down, cutting up, and moving those trees?

What were all the German's associated with these new "death camps" doing before 1942 that was no longer a priority to the war effort?
 
Clayton Moore said:
As usual it makes you wonder what those laborers were doing before they started chopping down, cutting up, and moving those trees?

What were all the German's associated with these new "death camps" doing before 1942 that was no longer a priority to the war effort?
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Germany didn't move to a war economy till 1943. There presence in the camps was not exactly a drain on German manpower
 
Not to mention the extensive use of slave labor in Poland, which could easily have been used to cut down trees.
 
MG1962 said:
Germany didn't move to a war economy till 1943. There presence in the camps was not exactly a drain on German manpower
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incorrect, mobilisation began in 1939 and the most marked falls in consumer production, loss of manpower to the services etc, came in 1939-41. The Blitzkrieg economy argument is a myth promoted by Speer and his associates after the war to make themselves look better compared to Goering.

the simple answer to the deniers' latest argument to incredulity is that quite a lot of wood was being cut down already by foresters in Poland (not to mention elsewhere), of which only a fraction was needed for corpse cremation, because larger pyres meant greater fuel efficiency anyhow, and because other fuels were used in combination with wood.

Other Brits on here have already pointed out that the FMD outbreak a decade ago saw quite colossal numbers of cattle being cremated on pyres, to the tune of tonnages vastly in excess of the numbers for the Holocaust (and in any case: far from all bodies were cremated). It wasn't a great burden for the UK to do this.
 
Wroclaw said:
They don't use gasoline, but they do use ghee, i.e., clarified butter, which is poured over the body by the mourners during the cremation.
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Yes I didn't mention this as this varies amongst devotees and what their caste is. I've seen anything from a sprinkle to maybe a pint and for Bahramins up to two-three pints.

If its important as to how much ghee is used I can ask my Hindu associates.
 
Killing Jews, Poles, Russians, etc. was part of the war effort...that's why the action groups followed directly behind invading German army. The larger point is that the destruction of Jews, especially, but of other populations was not a side show, as the deniers would pretend, it was the show. You don't get living space in the East by simply, politely asking the people to move over. German war plans always contained plans for the harshest treatment of native populations...starvation, terror, etc... and for jewish populations in particular. However, the more use of more systematic methods of killing (as first explored in the German T4 program), like gassing, were started because good planners though the German's were, they didn't really understand the logistics of uprooting millions of people and moving millions of unwilling and captive people around during a war (or any other time).

Indeed, the deniers would take one of the more impressive qualities away from the Nazi's ... their ability to improvise "solutions" relatively quickly -- at least when it came to Jews. Funny how so many deniers are quietly in awe of German capabilities, indeed the power of the germans to hang on as long as they did under the total assault of the allied powers, but finding new and efficient ways of getting rid of a Vermin race like the jews, well, the deniers say the best they could do is get rid of a couple of hundred thousand...and that because the allies destroyed the food transportation systems.

Anyway, this post has gone on to long. Time to restate the key: killing Jews wasn't a side show to the war effort, it was intragral to the war effort.
 
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Nick Terry said:
incorrect, mobilisation began in 1939 and the most marked falls in consumer production, loss of manpower to the services etc, came in 1939-41. The Blitzkrieg economy argument is a myth promoted by Speer and his associates after the war to make themselves look better compared to Goering.

the simple answer to the deniers' latest argument to incredulity is that quite a lot of wood was being cut down already by foresters in Poland (not to mention elsewhere), of which only a fraction was needed for corpse cremation, because larger pyres meant greater fuel efficiency anyhow, and because other fuels were used in combination with wood.

Other Brits on here have already pointed out that the FMD outbreak a decade ago saw quite colossal numbers of cattle being cremated on pyres, to the tune of tonnages vastly in excess of the numbers for the Holocaust (and in any case: far from all bodies were cremated). It wasn't a great burden for the UK to do this.
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Aquamation has been used since 1992 to dispose of animals with diseases such as Mad Cow.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Aquamation has been used since 1992 to dispose of animals with diseases such as Mad Cow.
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.
Where? Got any of that, you know, evidence thingy that Nick's claims about the recent FMD outbreak and pyres are in error?
.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Aquamation has been used since 1992 to dispose of animals with diseases such as Mad Cow.
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Interesting. No or hardly any burnings in 2001? I certainly remember different. But maybe you know more about that time?

This report cetainly suggests that there were a lot of burnings during that FMD outbreak.

But maybe I remember wrongly?
 
Clayton, would it be so hard for you to admit that you were wrong about the British FMD outbreak in 2001?

Or do you wish to permanently discredit yourself in the eyes of every Brit who was older than about 5 at the time?
 
According to DEFRA the number of animals killed during the 2001 Foot-and-mouth outbreak was in the region of 6 million*

The Environmental impact report here, breaks down the number culled and how bodies were disposed of.

* While I accept that their may have been a government policy to limit the use of Foot and Mouth diseased animals in wider society, it is absurd on the face of it to believe that all these animals were simply killed. The defra report is degenerate phantasmagoria. These animals were most likely evacuated to East Anglia. Don't ask me where exactly, I have no interest in finding livestock that has no wish to be found. . .
 
garethdjb said:
According to DEFRA the number of animals killed during the 2001 Foot-and-mouth outbreak was in the region of 6 million*

The Environmental impact report here, breaks down the number culled and how bodies were disposed of.

* While I accept that their may have been a government policy to limit the use of Foot and Mouth diseased animals in wider society, it is absurd on the face of it to believe that all these animals were simply killed. The defra report is degenerate phantasmagoria. These animals were most likely evacuated to East Anglia. Don't ask me where exactly, I have no interest in finding livestock that has no wish to be found. . .
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Now that I think about it, you're right. There's no forests in England anyway. Where did they get all the wood for the burning pits?

Then there's this.

If they were going to kill it, why let it go swimming?
 
uke2se said:
Now that I think about it, you're right. There's no forests in England anyway. Where did they get all the wood for the burning pits?
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That is right all the wood in the UK was used up building wooden ships in the 17-19th century! LOL
 
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