Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[dvictr]

it seems to me it may have started back in the 50s by pandering to the United States. Hitler's Germany is a huge part of German history and millions of Germans were very proud to support him during the 30s and 40s. I find it odd that they just try to shove it under a rug and forget about the millions of Nazi soldiers that died defending there country and an ideology they believed in.

 

[The Charnel Expanse]

it seems to me it may have started back in the 50s by pandering to the United States. Hitler's Germany is a huge part of German history and millions of Germans were very proud to support him during the 30s and 40s. I find it odd that they just try to shove it under a rug and forget about the millions of Nazi soldiers that died defending there country and an ideology they believed in.

That's what happens to things that go out of style.
You don't see many people still wearing platform shoes and polyester leisure suits, do you?
Well, back in the 70s those were all the rage.

Yes, friends, Nazism was like Disco. Bellicose, genocidal disco.

 

[MG1962]

it seems to me it may have started back in the 50s by pandering to the United States. Hitler's Germany is a huge part of German history and millions of Germans were very proud to support him during the 30s and 40s. I find it odd that they just try to shove it under a rug and forget about the millions of Nazi soldiers that died defending there country and an ideology they believed in.

Shove what under a rug? When has Germany ever denied what happened and why? There have been three generations born in that country since the war - should we point at these people and say ha ha you were Nazis? Anyone one under 65 in Germany has only history books to tell them about the war - they were never there

 

[dvictr]

Shove what under a rug? When has Germany ever denied what happened and why? There have been three generations born in that country since the war - should we point at these people and say ha ha you were Nazis? Anyone one under 65 in Germany has only history books to tell them about the war - they were never there

As a general statement I think all soldiers that died in combat should be respected and honored regardless of which side they where fighting for. The British during the US Revolution, The Confederates during the US Civil War, or The Viet Cong in Vietnam.

 

[MG1962]

As a general statement I think all soldiers that died in combat should be respected and honored regardless of which side they where fighting for. The British during the US Revolution, The Confederates during the US Civil War, or The Viet Cong in Vietnam.

And who says these soldiers are not honoured and respected. It is the Nazis who led controlled them that are reviled

 

[dvictr]

And who says these soldiers are not honoured and respected. It is the Nazis who led controlled them that are reviled

the soldiers were clearly Nazis and very proud. millions of Germans were very compassionate in their support of the third reich.

when they lost.. the blame game started.

 

[The Charnel Expanse]

the soldiers were clearly Nazis and very proud. millions of Germans were very compassionate in their support of the third reich.

...

 

[Wroclaw]

Many states have Holocaust denial laws. In practice (Germany) every deviation from some undefined official version (assuming 5.999.999 victims instead of 6.000.000) can bring anyone into jail for years.

That is patently untrue.

In the absence of any official definition ANYTHING being said or written about the Holocaust in theory can bring any citizen into jail. It is also agianst the law to compare (e.g. with other genocides) or trivialize the event. The newest juridical perversion is announced by sentencing those, writing about any genocide and not mentioning that the Holocaust was much worse.

{Sigh}

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historikerstreit

That went on for YEARS and involved some of the most prestigious historians in Germany. Why did none of them go to jail?

What is a matter of concern: All major western states, not having anti Holocaust denial legislation (England, Spain, USA) during a relatively short period became victims of terrorist attacks.

Oh for Christ's sake...

Countries having anti-Holocaust-denial-laws didn't have those attacks.

Israel has a Holocaust denial law. Israel is frequently the subject of terrorist attacks.

There goes your theory.

Is this coincidence by chance or conspiracy by the ruling powers?

It's a coincidence.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

 

[Wroclaw]

Canada has barred some Holocaust deniers from entering the country, though. And yet, we still had people die on 9/11.

Perhaps the Jews are just confused?

Utterly. Too much lox.

 

[Wroclaw]

Spain and the UK also have laws (as part of the EU) that would allow them to do the same thing. They're not holocaust denial laws, though.

Yeah, it's called "sovereignty." Countries can decide who they want to allow in.

 

[Wroclaw]

Hitler's Germany is a huge part of German history

Sorry to be the sticky wicket here, but the Third Reich lasted twelve years. Arguably, the German people enter history (at least written history) with the sack of the Roman Empire. So we're going to hold the German people to a twelve-year definition when they have a sixteen hundred year old history that includes some of the greatest writers, scientists, philosophers, and thinkers in history?

I can't do that. It's wrong.

 

[Wroclaw]

Yes, friends, Nazism was like Disco. Bellicose, genocidal disco.

Is there any other kind?

 

[Wroclaw]

As a general statement I think all soldiers that died in combat should be respected and honored regardless of which side they where fighting for. The British during the US Revolution, The Confederates during the US Civil War, or The Viet Cong in Vietnam.

Say it with me now: And the Wehrmacht in World War II.

 

[dvictr]

...

ive seen videos and images of huge rallies with millions of supporters.. are you gonna tell me that they were brainwashed/ forced to be there?

The German people are cowards for trying to scrub away a huge part of there history. they fully supported the third reich and over 8 million soldiers died in support

 

[Wroclaw]

the soldiers were clearly Nazis and very proud.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Certainly many soldiers were party members. After all, it was a one-party state.

But to say that all the soldiers were Nazis in a state where there was universal conscription is just a blatantly dishonest statement or blindingly ignorant.

millions of Germans were very compassionate in their support of the third reich

Millions of Germans opposed the régime. Tens of thousands paid with their lives. You do an injustice to every single one of them when you do not qualify your statements.

 

[Wroclaw]

ive seen videos and images of huge rallies with millions of supporters.. are you gonna tell me that they were brainwashed/ forced to be there?

I suggest you read even a popular history of the Third Reich. You seem to have no grasp on the history of the period whatsoever.

The German people are cowards for trying to scrub away a huge part of there history. they fully supported the third reich and over 8 million soldiers died in support

Who's trying to scrub away their history? Every German I know is fully cognizant of what his/her country did. I have friends whose grandparents were members of the Nazi party. I don't see the big deal, frankly. They know what happened was wrong and they say so, when it happens to come up. Am I supposed to expect of them that they hang on a perpetual cross for what happened seventy years ago?

By the way, I'm Jewish.

 

[dvictr]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Certainly many soldiers were party members. After all, it was a one-party state.

But to say that all the soldiers were Nazis in a state where there was universal conscription is just a blatantly dishonest statement or blindingly ignorant.

put it into percentages.. are you saying 90% didnt really support the party? 50%?

 

[The Charnel Expanse]

ive seen videos and images of huge rallies with millions of supporters.. are you gonna tell me that they were brainwashed/ forced to be there?

The German people are cowards for trying to scrub away a huge part of there history. they fully supported the third reich and over 8 million soldiers died in support

Do you know what "compassionate" means?

For the record, I think the English should be far more ashamed of their history than the Germans. Germans had maybe a 4-decade period of acting like dicks towards the rest of the world. The English honed it into an artform over centuries.

 

[dvictr]

Do you know what "compassionate" means?

the German people clearly supported and sympathized with the Nazi party and wanted victory for Germany.. nothing scandalous in that statement.

its seems that the soldiers of Nazi Germany that died during WW2 are now viewed as victims of manipulative and oppressive leaders rather than being considered self conscious individuals that died defending ideals they believed in.

 

[The Charnel Expanse]

[groan]
why will you not just leave?