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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Clayton Moore said:
After the first year when all contact is lost with the first million nobody pays any attention to the law. Nobody takes their family to Polish death camps after that first year. That's how freaking reality works.
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I asked you this question before, Clayton. You didn't answer it, so I'll ask it again: Have you ever had a gun put to your head? If yes, what did it do to your free will?
 
Mr Moore and Mr Rabbit seem to have decided to pursue other matters than explaining how OSR 24 was supposedly has been manipulated, in Mr Rabbit's words, "when the OSRs were found and compiled by War Crimes they saw a problem with the Great Provocation and just moved the incident as it was reported in internal German documents to avoid problems with the Soviet version." I feel certain that Mr Rabbit is tied up working tirelessly on behalf of Libyans against American aggression, but I have no idea what has caused Mr Moore to tarry so.

You might start by explaining, since bunny has up to now failed to, how "War Crimes" made use of OSR 24.

Or is it time to introduce another distraction?
 
kageki said:
So are you saying they didn't use gas?
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The way I read SanityGap's post was that he was asking you, given your assumption, not his, that gas was not used, whether you felt that mass murder was therefore justified or of lesser consequence somehow. I did not see in SanityGap's post where he subscribed to your assumption--just his asking you about the implications of your assumption. Your attempt to wriggle out of this is duly noted. And pathetic.
 
LemmyCaution said:
The way I read SanityGap's post was that he was asking you, given your assumption, not his, that gas was not used, whether you felt that mass murder was therefore justified or of lesser consequence somehow. I did not see in SanityGap's post where he subscribed to your assumption--just his asking you about the implications of your assumption. Your attempt to wriggle out of this is duly noted. And pathetic.
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Well I'm asking SanityGap. Not you. When he responds then we can proceed with the questions.
 
LemmyCaution said:
Mr Moore and Mr Rabbit seem to have decided to pursue other matters than explaining how OSR 24 was supposedly has been manipulated, in Mr Rabbit's words, "when the OSRs were found and compiled by War Crimes they saw a problem with the Great Provocation and just moved the incident as it was reported in internal German documents to avoid problems with the Soviet version." I feel certain that Mr Rabbit is tied up working tirelessly on behalf of Libyans against American aggression, but I have no idea what has caused Mr Moore to tarry so.

You might start by explaining, since bunny has up to now failed to, how "War Crimes" made use of OSR 24.

Or is it time to introduce another distraction?
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Yes how about this:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/ponary.html
He went on to tell me that a Jewish Commissar had broken into a flat, tied up a man and raped his wife before the man’s very eyes. Afterwards the Commissar had literally butchered the wife to death, cut out her heart, fried it in a pan and had then proceeded to eat it.
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Wroclaw said:
I asked you this question before, Clayton. You didn't answer it, so I'll ask it again: Have you ever had a gun put to your head? If yes, what did it do to your free will?
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It is partly this but also more complex and more variegated. In some cases, Lodz, Warsaw, and eventually to some extent in the ghettos in the Baltics, to name some relevant cases, Jewish ghetto inmates, having been deprived of material goods, kept hungry and even starved and repeatedly terrorized, without even minimal resources and largely in poor health and many not even able to work, were almost finished off even before the deportations.

I wonder if Clayton Moore can recite for us the mental and physical shifts that happen to a chronically malnourished or starving individual and then deduce the bearing these shifts had on the situation.

The Germans also used divide and conquer tactics, granting "privileges" to some Jews, always momentary and usually marginal and usually combined with some degree of deception backed up by massive force and violence. Members of the Order Service and their families, Jews in workshops, and so on were given the "privilege" of a stay in execution. Sadly, in their extreme situation, ghetto Jews, like others in dire trouble, act in various ways, and not mostly in concert with the uplifting notion that people faced with their deaths are generally heroic and act with solidarity with their neighbors. In short, faced with death, many people grasped at any hope of saving their own skins and those of their immediate family and closest friends.

In other places, further east, Jews often did resist or attempt to flee, but usually in a disorganized and spontaneous way that was not very effective in the face of what the Germans brought to bear. The resistance movements in Vilna, Warsaw, and Minsk are well documented, but also something of an exception; that said, Jews had, as noted, a variety of responses, with politicized youths prone to organization at one extreme and uprooted, destitute, and homeless refugees begging and debilitated at the other.
 
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kageki said:
Well I'm asking SanityGap. Not you. When he responds then we can proceed with the questions.
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Well, this being a discussion forum, not email or Twitter, I am commenting on the poverty of your reading ability and thought.
 
kageki said:
So are you saying they didn't use gas?
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It was implied in your reference to the missing part of David Irvings quote. You seem to feel that if gas was not the murder weapon it somehow make the genocide less serious. As you know, the missing line has no bearing on anything.
 
SanityGap said:
It was implied in your reference to the missing part of David Irvings quote. You seem to feel that if gas was not the murder weapon it somehow make the genocide less serious. As you know, the missing line has no bearing on anything.
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First of all, I was merely quoting Irving and to point out what was omitted. Nothing more. You should be taking it up with Irving then.

Also if it has no bearing then why did the poster purposefully omit it and why are you bringing it up?
 
LemmyCaution said:
How about it? What do you make of it, since you've introduced it? Am I supposed to be able to read your mind? How does it answer the question about OSR 24?

I could have said that I was addressing Mr Rabbit and Mr Moore, but, this being a discussion forum, I am ok with your making a feeble attempt to cover for them.
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It was just a distraction, but it's interesting how no one cares other then atrocity committed by Nazis.

I'm not really sure what the point is over OSR 24, but I realize there has been discussion about it over at RODOH so I'm not going to interfere.
 
little grey rabbit said:
So who was doing the gassing at Auschwitz. Do you have a list of names?

I mean of people who actually worked in the Krematoria, not people who did selection duty on the ramp.

Otto Moll

But there must be more. Can we make a list?
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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/browse_thread/thread/b900fc883cc2b4b2
Q. How many people do you estimate went through the operation, which
you were responsible for –how many victims?
A. When you use the words—‘you were responsible’—I want to emphasize
again that I do not wish to have that word applied in any way to the
actual killing of the people, as I was not responsible for the actual
physical ending of their lives and I will not admit that as it is not
the fact.
Q. You did not pull the trigger, but you caused someone else to do it.
Is that your position?
A. I do not understand the question.
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So Moll didn't actually pour the gas or "pull the trigger".

You know I asked this once myself. Was anyone actually convicted of doing the actual gassing at Auschwitz? The one that poured the gas through the holes in the roof?
 
kageki said:
It was just a distraction, but it's interesting how no one cares other then atrocity committed by Nazis.
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Well, sure, nobody wants to talk about that atrocity because it was committed, apparently, by a big bad old Jew.

Actually, you're pointing to an interesting double standard, and this is it: I actually very strongly doubt that the atrocity discussed by you ever actually happened. We accept in atrocity accounts that there are lies, exaggerations, and mistakes in remembrance. However, we don't therefore conclude that the atrocities as a whole were never committed. You, however, do conclude that about the Nazis.

That's your answer for why we discuss these atrocities. Not because they happened or didn't happen, but because people like you deny that they did. You're the one making the exception — not us.
 
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