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You mean this?



It looks all in order to me.
Indeed.
Operational Situation Report USSR No. 24

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD, Berlin,
July 16, 1941

33 copies
---------------
(23rd copy)

Einsatzgruppe A

Location: Riga
EK 1b
Location: Daugavpils

Daugavpils was occupied by the German troops on July 6. The greater part of the town was burned down during the following 2-3 days. Only a relatively small part of the town was damaged through direct fighting. The fires on the days that followed were caused by arson. Before leaving the town, The Russians released a proclamation in which they ordered the town to be burned. The Jews are said to have participated in the burnings. 5 Jews were caught red-handed during the first 3 days and were immediately shot.

Of the vital services, the electrical works are totally gutted by fire. Only the reservoirs and water towers of the waterworks are destroyed; thus a limited supply of water is available for the population. The water system is intact.

The population, with the exception of a very few, had fled from the town. At present, there are approximately 8,000 persons in town again. The steady flow of returning inhabitants can be observed.

The attitude of the Latvians is absolutely positive. They are solely interested in creating conditions in Daugavpils that will enable the population to renew the most vital services for normal life.

So far, no political involvement has been observed. Activity and interest of the leading Latvians are absolutely guided by the conditions caused by the destruction of the town.

The Latvians, including the leading activists, have been, so far, absolutely passive in their anti-semitic attitudes, not daring to take action against Jews. Until now, Dunaburg had about 45,000 inhabitants, 50% of whom were Jews. They ruled the town absolutely. As the Russians left, the Jews spread the rumor that the Russians would return soon. Thus, unlike the Lithuanians who had an active attitude, the Latvians are hesitatingly organizing and forming a front against the Jews. The Latvian population has been further weakened as the Russians, during the last fourteen days before the war's outbreak, deported about 500 Latvian families belonging to the intelligentsia to Central Russia.

Since July 3, the Latvians have a town administration and an auxiliary police force. Both organizations headed by the former Latvian captain, Petersons.

The auxiliary police force consists of former police constables, members of the former Latvian Army, and members of the former ATZSARGI organization (Organization for Self Defense). The latter was founded during the Ulmanis dictatorship in 1934. Its individual members did not swear allegiance to him; so it is reported.

Owing to the initiative of the EK (Einsatzkommando), the auxiliary police force at present consists of 240 men and has been strictly organized. New men are currently being enlisted. They help the EK as auxiliary police and are on duty in the 6 police districts established so far. Some members have been assigned to criminal police and security police work.

By July 7 the Latvians arrested 1125 Jews, 32 political prisoners, 85 Russian workers, and 2 women criminals, the greater part during the last days. This is due to the EK backing the Latvians. Actions against the Jews are going on in an ever-increasing number. Conforming to a suggestion of the EK, the Jews are being evacuated by the auxiliary police force from all houses still standing. The apartments are being allocated to non-Jewish inhabitants. The Jewish families are being driven out of town by the Latvians; most of the men have been arrested.

The food supply is inadequate as nearly all stocks were destroyed by fire.

The arrested Jewish men are shot without ceremony and interred in previously prepared graves. Until now the EK 1b has shot 1150 Jews in Daugavpils.

The advance units of EK 1a Sandberger are located in Pskov, Fellin, Pernau, and before Dorpat, EK 1b Ehrlinger is in Zilupe (Rosenhof) and Ostrov.

In Riga, Einsatzkommando 2 sifted through the entire documentary materials, searched all offices, arrested the leading Communists as far as they could be found. These actions initiated against the Jews were headed by SS-Sturbannfuhrer Barth and were carried out in an exemplary manner. At present, 600 Communists and 2,000 Jews are under arrest. 400 Jews were killed during pogroms in Riga, since the arrival of EK 2; 300 by the Latvian auxiliary police and partly by our units. The prisons will be emptied completely during the next few days. Outside of Riga, within Latvia, an additional 1,600 Jews were liquidated by EK 2.

The political considerations are still not clear. Various Latvian groups have finally come together. With German officials they try to commence their work, but so far, with no success. Clarification of these conditions would be highly desirable, as well as an indication of the expected directions of political developments. Because of the urgency of settling the economic questions, contact has been made with the higher SS and police leaders and the German Army. Agreement has been achieved.

Einsatzgruppe B

Location: Minsk
EK 8
Location: Baranovichi

An advance Kommando unit moves slowly towards Slutsk which is already occupied by EK 7b. EK 8 has the task of carrying out rather dangerous actions against officials, kommissars, etc., who are hiding in the forests.

Einsatzkommando 9
Location: Vilinius

Has orders to send an advance unit to Vileyka. Because of a short surprise fire fight against the Vilnius Security Police Headquarters a special liquidation was carried out in excess of daily liquidation quotas. Sonderkommando Moscow

The situation at the front permiting, the Sonderkommando will proceed cautiously to Smolensk on 16 July.

Einsatzgruppe C

Location: Zviahel (Novograd - Volynski)

Before leaving, the Bolsheviks, together with the Jews, murdered several Ukrainians; as an excuse, they used the attempted Ukrainian uprising of June 25, 1941, which tried to free their prisoners.

According to reliable information, about 20,000 Ukrainians have disappeared from Lvov, 80% of them belonging to the intelligentsia

The prisons in Lvov were crammed with the bodies of murdered Ukrainians. According to a moderate estimate, in Lvov alone 3-4,000 persons were either killed or deported.

In Dobromil, 82 dead bodies were found, 4 of them Jews. The latter were former Bolshevik informers who had been killed because of their complicity in this act. Near Dobromil an obsolete salt mine pit was discovered. It was completely filled in with dead bodies. In the immediate neighborhood, there is a 6 x 15m mass grave. The number of those murdered in the Dobromil area is estimated to be approximately several hundred.

In Sambor on June 26, 1941, about 400 Ukrainians were shot by the Bolsheviks. An additional 120 persons were murdered on June 27, 1941. The remaining prisoners succeeded in overpowering the Soviet guards, and fled. Concerning their numbers it should be noted that Sambor has a total of 26,000 inhabitants, among them 12,000 Poles, 10,000 Jews, and 4,000 Ukrainians.

As early as 1939, a larger number of Ukrainians was shot, and 1,500 Ukrainians as well as 500 poles were deported to the east.

Russians and Jews committed these murders in very cruel ways. Bestial mutilations were daily occurrences. Breasts of women and genitals of men were cut off. Jews have also nailed children to the wall and then murdered them. Killing was carried out by shots in the back of the neck. Hand grenades were frequently used for these murders.

In Dobromil, women and men were killed with blows by a hammer used to stun cattle before slaughter.

In many cases, the prisoners must have been tortured cruelly; bones were broken, etc. In Sambor, the prisoners were gagged and thus prevented from screaming during torture and murder. The Jews, some of whom also held official positions, in addition to their economic supremacy, and who served in the entire Bolshevik police, were always partners in these atrocities.

Finally, it was established that seven [German] pilots who had been captured were murdered. Three of them were found in a Russian military hospital where they had been murdered in bed by shots in the abdomen.

This atrocity apparently stems from a Russian instruction to 'exterminate' all German pilots and parachutists.

II. Behavior of the Ukrainian population.

In the first hours after the Bolshevik withdrawal, the Ukrainians displayed commendable activity against the Jews.

For example, the Dobromil synagogue was set fire and 50 Jews were killed by the enraged crowd at Sambor.

Maltreating them, the Lvov inhabitants rounded up about 1,000 Jews and took them to the GPU prison which has been occupied by the Wehrmacht.

III. Measures of the Einsatzgruppe

Approximately 7,000 Jews were rounded up and shot by the Security Police in retaliation for inhuman atrocities.

73 men were found to be functionaries and spies of the NKVD and were likewise shot.

40 men were liquidated on the basis of well-founded denunciations made by the inhabitants. Mainly Jews between 20 and 40 years of age were rounded up, artisans and specialists being set aside as far as possible. Apart from these executions in Lvov, reprisal measures were carried out at other places also: 132 Jews, for instance, were shot in Dobromil.

Since 32 Ukrainians had been murdered in Yavorov, 15 Jews were liquidated in retaliation.

EK 4a

Moved from Cracow via Zamosc to Sokal and from there into the Lutsk district.

Among the civilian prisoners found at Sokal, 17 were discovered to be Communist functionaries, agents and snipers, and were executed on June 28, 1941.

With the help of the Ukrainian militia, another 117 active Communists and agents of the NKVD were found on June 29 and executed the same day.

With the assistance of reliable Ukrainians, residents of Sokal, 183 Jewish Communists were also caught. They were liquidated on June 30.

Furthermore, Horokhov details the discovery of 7 Communist functionaries on June 30 who were shot on the spot.

An advance unit dispatched to Lutsk on June 27 found the larger part of the town in flames. According to information from the town commander, only Jews can be held responsible for the arson. Prior to their withdrawal, the Bolsheviks shot 2,800 of the 4,000 Ukrainians imprisoned in the Lutsk prison. According to the statement of 19 Ukrainians who survived the slaughter with more or less serious injuries, the Jews again played a decisive part in the arrests and shooting. In the town itself everything was still in wild confusion. All shops were looted by the population. After the arrival of the Einsatzkommando all available men were sent to assist the town commander. They succeeded at least in safeguarding the extensive food supplies.

Afterwards the official buildings were systematically searched. Other investigations were started to find the Jews and Communists responsible for the arson and the looting. 300 Jews and 20 looters were arrested and shot on June 30.

On July 2 the corpses of 10 German Wehrmacht soldiers were found. In retaliation, 1160 Jews were shot by the Ukrainians with the help of one platoon of the police and one platoon of the infantry. Finally, 50 Polish agents and informers were discovered who were liquidated also

The methodical searches carried out everywhere by the Einsatzkommando before the arrival of the intelligence units and the Secret Military Police were also successful. Thus, it was possible to find on June 28 lists of agents and other important documents in three party buildings as well as in the bank after safes had been forced open.

On July 1, 1941, the offices of the Russian District Military Headquarters were searched and all files secured which, among other matters, contained secret instructions relating to mobilization.

Moreover, important material, including, among other things, records relating to Russian agents in various countries, was discovered in the buildings of the Lutsk Soviet authorities as well as in different Communist centers after the safes had been forced open.

Einsatzkommando 4b is at work at present in the Tarnopol area. It is planned to have the Kommando proceed to Proskurov.

Of the 54 Poles and Jews who had been working as agents for the NKVD, 8 persons, two of them Jewish women, were arrested and executed, the remainder apparently having taken to their heels.

At Tarnopol 10 [German] soldiers were also found among the murdered in the prison, 1 of them a lieutenant of the air force, 6 pilots and 3 soldiers of the mountain troops. Of the Jews assigned to disinter the corpses, about 180 were slain, some in the prison courtyard, some in the streets. Moreover, Jewish residences were destroyed by members of the Waffen-SS with hand grenades, and then set on fire.

According to the statements of Ukrainians, the number of German members of the Wehrmacht murdered by the Russians is estimated to be much greater.

Reliable Ukrainian circles ventured to say that numerous Ukrainians serving with the Russian army would like to desert immediately. But, like the Russians, time and again, they had been impressed by the fact that they would be shot on the spot by the Germans if they were taken prisoners of war; thus, they had refrained from deserting from sheer fright. Furthermore, the Russians are said to have ordered the complete destruction of all crops in case of a retreat to former Russian territory. They also asked the farmers to retreat with the troops for, otherwise, they would likewise be shot by the Germans.

This being the situation, Ukrainian circles suggest a large-scale leaflet propaganda campaign directed at Ukrainian soldiers and peasants. Apparently, such a propaganda campaign has not yet begun. At any rate, nothing of this kind has become known at Tarnopol.

A Kommando of the Group Staff participated in an action in Zlochev on July 7, 1942, which had only been superficially purged earlier by Einsatzkommando 4b when it passed through the town. In the NKVD office essential secret documents were seized which were already sealed and ready to be sent off.

The investigations at Zlochev proved that the Russians, prior to their withdrawal, arrested and murdered indiscriminately a total of 700 Ukrainians, but nevertheless, included the entire [local]Ukrainian intelligentsia. By order od the Wehrmacht, the militia retaliated by arresting and shooting several hundred Jews. The number of the Jews liquidated may run to about 300-500.

Repeatedly it could be observed that Politruks [party members] who had escaped raided villages at nighttime for food. The influence of the Bandera group is very strong in Zlochev. A revolutionary Ukrainian administration has been established there which welcomes the Germans as there allies with posters and leaflets.

At Rocsicau (1) three saboteurs were arrested who had cut a Wehrmacht telephone line leading to the forward German lines; they had then passed information on to the Russian troops. As a result, German soldiers have been made prisoners of war by the Russians.

These Communist saboteurs were likewise shot.
 
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The evidence log most certainly wasn't.

Okay I see we are back to playing little dick games..Oh well. Get a copy of the log. Find volume one page one item one. Reference that listed item to the document it refers to and explain to me why it is clearly false

Now do I have to repeat the next 40,000 steps or are you going to man up?
 
I see you can't be up with the historiography of this matter if you hadn't heard of old Harry


1) You spelt his name wrong in your first quote.

"It was not mentioned in Hinksley's majestic 4 volume survey of British Intelligence in 1980"
His name is Sir Francis Hinsley.

2) Sir Francis died two years before the private German historian Peter Witte did his own research at Kew Public Documents Office and discovered the Hofle telegram..

3) You are lying through your teeth.

4) Here is the original paper by Witte & Tyas.

http://www.rodoh.us/arts/arts1/witte2001/witte-tyas_hgs2001-468.pdf
 
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:)

Let me amend that statement, any document except OSR 24. Like the cobra I am waiting for the exact right moment to strike on that baby.
will you be including with your strike a summary of the various piss-poor arguments and twists and turns and detours and feints you have tried regarding OSR 24 heretofore? Please say yes.
 
will you be including with your strike a summary of the various piss-poor arguments and twists and turns and detours and feints you have tried regarding OSR 24 heretofore? Please say yes.
I am unsure what you are talking about here. Are you referring to my pirouettes and strategic deceptions?

Anyway I was hoping for your insight into this part of OSR-24
Before leaving, the Bolsheviks, together with the Jews, murdered several Ukrainians; as an excuse, they used the attempted Ukrainian uprising of June 25, 1941, which tried to free their prisoners.

According to reliable information, about 20,000 Ukrainians have disappeared from Lvov, 80% of them belonging to the intelligentsia

The prisons in Lvov were crammed with the bodies of murdered Ukrainians. According to a moderate estimate, in Lvov alone 3-4,000 persons were either killed or deported.

This sounds remarkably like the Night of the Murdered Professors.....don't tell me again, just like Katyn, the Soviets tried to pin one of their crimes on the Germans?
 
I am unsure what you are talking about here. Are you referring to my pirouettes and strategic deceptions?

Anyway I was hoping for your insight into this part of OSR-24


This sounds remarkably like the Night of the Murdered Professors.....don't tell me again, just like Katyn, the Soviets tried to pin one of their crimes on the Germans?
Please. DBB #57 strikes again. I doubt that "the Jews" were involved in the pre-invasion murders, unless by Jews you mean those pesky Judaeo-Bolsheviks.

Actually the exodus sounds more like some of the 5% of Jews whom Arad estimated made it out of the region in advance of the Germans' entry and occupation.

Now, this post is redolent of your antics with the tractor factory and your meltdown on OSR 21, another attempt to delay ponying up on OSR 24 by changing the subject, a favorite tactic of yours when you have run out of tricks. Your weaseling and cowardice are not surprising but remain, nonetheless, regrettable.
 
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit
You mean this?



It looks all in order to me.
Indeed.
Quote:
Operational Situation Report USSR No. 24

The Chief of the Security Police and the SD, Berlin,
July 16, 1941

33 copies
---------------
(23rd copy)

Einsatzgruppe A

Location: Riga
EK 1b
Location: Daugavpils

Daugavpils was occupied by the German troops on July 6. The greater part of the town was burned down during the following 2-3 days. Only a relatively small part of the town was damaged through direct fighting. The fires on the days that followed were caused by arson. Before leaving the town, The Russians released a proclamation in which they ordered the town to be burned. The Jews are said to have participated in the burnings. 5 Jews were caught red-handed during the first 3 days and were immediately shot.

Of the vital services, the electrical works are totally gutted by fire. Only the reservoirs and water towers of the waterworks are destroyed; thus a limited supply of water is available for the population. The water system is intact.

The population, with the exception of a very few, had fled from the town. At present, there are approximately 8,000 persons in town again. The steady flow of returning inhabitants can be observed.

The attitude of the Latvians is absolutely positive. They are solely interested in creating conditions in Daugavpils that will enable the population to renew the most vital services for normal life.

So far, no political involvement has been observed. Activity and interest of the leading Latvians are absolutely guided by the conditions caused by the destruction of the town.

The Latvians, including the leading activists, have been, so far, absolutely passive in their anti-semitic attitudes, not daring to take action against Jews. Until now, Dunaburg had about 45,000 inhabitants, 50% of whom were Jews. They ruled the town absolutely. As the Russians left, the Jews spread the rumor that the Russians would return soon. Thus, unlike the Lithuanians who had an active attitude, the Latvians are hesitatingly organizing and forming a front against the Jews. The Latvian population has been further weakened as the Russians, during the last fourteen days before the war's outbreak, deported about 500 Latvian families belonging to the intelligentsia to Central Russia.

Since July 3, the Latvians have a town administration and an auxiliary police force. Both organizations headed by the former Latvian captain, Petersons.

The auxiliary police force consists of former police constables, members of the former Latvian Army, and members of the former ATZSARGI organization (Organization for Self Defense). The latter was founded during the Ulmanis dictatorship in 1934. Its individual members did not swear allegiance to him; so it is reported.

Owing to the initiative of the EK (Einsatzkommando), the auxiliary police force at present consists of 240 men and has been strictly organized. New men are currently being enlisted. They help the EK as auxiliary police and are on duty in the 6 police districts established so far. Some members have been assigned to criminal police and security police work.

By July 7 the Latvians arrested 1125 Jews, 32 political prisoners, 85 Russian workers, and 2 women criminals, the greater part during the last days. This is due to the EK backing the Latvians. Actions against the Jews are going on in an ever-increasing number. Conforming to a suggestion of the EK, the Jews are being evacuated by the auxiliary police force from all houses still standing. The apartments are being allocated to non-Jewish inhabitants. The Jewish families are being driven out of town by the Latvians; most of the men have been arrested.

The food supply is inadequate as nearly all stocks were destroyed by fire.

The arrested Jewish men are shot without ceremony and interred in previously prepared graves. Until now the EK 1b has shot 1150 Jews in Daugavpils.

The advance units of EK 1a Sandberger are located in Pskov, Fellin, Pernau, and before Dorpat, EK 1b Ehrlinger is in Zilupe (Rosenhof) and Ostrov.

In Riga, Einsatzkommando 2 sifted through the entire documentary materials, searched all offices, arrested the leading Communists as far as they could be found. These actions initiated against the Jews were headed by SS-Sturbannfuhrer Barth and were carried out in an exemplary manner. At present, 600 Communists and 2,000 Jews are under arrest. 400 Jews were killed during pogroms in Riga, since the arrival of EK 2; 300 by the Latvian auxiliary police and partly by our units. The prisons will be emptied completely during the next few days. Outside of Riga, within Latvia, an additional 1,600 Jews were liquidated by EK 2.

The political considerations are still not clear. Various Latvian groups have finally come together. With German officials they try to commence their work, but so far, with no success. Clarification of these conditions would be highly desirable, as well as an indication of the expected directions of political developments. Because of the urgency of settling the economic questions, contact has been made with the higher SS and police leaders and the German Army. Agreement has been achieved.

Einsatzgruppe B

Location: Minsk
EK 8
Location: Baranovichi

An advance Kommando unit moves slowly towards Slutsk which is already occupied by EK 7b. EK 8 has the task of carrying out rather dangerous actions against officials, kommissars, etc., who are hiding in the forests.

Einsatzkommando 9
Location: Vilinius

Has orders to send an advance unit to Vileyka. Because of a short surprise fire fight against the Vilnius Security Police Headquarters a special liquidation was carried out in excess of daily liquidation quotas. Sonderkommando Moscow

The situation at the front permiting, the Sonderkommando will proceed cautiously to Smolensk on 16 July.

Einsatzgruppe C

Location: Zviahel (Novograd - Volynski)

Before leaving, the Bolsheviks, together with the Jews, murdered several Ukrainians; as an excuse, they used the attempted Ukrainian uprising of June 25, 1941, which tried to free their prisoners.

According to reliable information, about 20,000 Ukrainians have disappeared from Lvov, 80% of them belonging to the intelligentsia

The prisons in Lvov were crammed with the bodies of murdered Ukrainians. According to a moderate estimate, in Lvov alone 3-4,000 persons were either killed or deported.

In Dobromil, 82 dead bodies were found, 4 of them Jews. The latter were former Bolshevik informers who had been killed because of their complicity in this act. Near Dobromil an obsolete salt mine pit was discovered. It was completely filled in with dead bodies. In the immediate neighborhood, there is a 6 x 15m mass grave. The number of those murdered in the Dobromil area is estimated to be approximately several hundred.

In Sambor on June 26, 1941, about 400 Ukrainians were shot by the Bolsheviks. An additional 120 persons were murdered on June 27, 1941. The remaining prisoners succeeded in overpowering the Soviet guards, and fled. Concerning their numbers it should be noted that Sambor has a total of 26,000 inhabitants, among them 12,000 Poles, 10,000 Jews, and 4,000 Ukrainians.

As early as 1939, a larger number of Ukrainians was shot, and 1,500 Ukrainians as well as 500 poles were deported to the east.

Russians and Jews committed these murders in very cruel ways. Bestial mutilations were daily occurrences. Breasts of women and genitals of men were cut off. Jews have also nailed children to the wall and then murdered them. Killing was carried out by shots in the back of the neck. Hand grenades were frequently used for these murders.

In Dobromil, women and men were killed with blows by a hammer used to stun cattle before slaughter.

In many cases, the prisoners must have been tortured cruelly; bones were broken, etc. In Sambor, the prisoners were gagged and thus prevented from screaming during torture and murder. The Jews, some of whom also held official positions, in addition to their economic supremacy, and who served in the entire Bolshevik police, were always partners in these atrocities.

Finally, it was established that seven [German] pilots who had been captured were murdered. Three of them were found in a Russian military hospital where they had been murdered in bed by shots in the abdomen.

This atrocity apparently stems from a Russian instruction to 'exterminate' all German pilots and parachutists.

II. Behavior of the Ukrainian population.

In the first hours after the Bolshevik withdrawal, the Ukrainians displayed commendable activity against the Jews.

For example, the Dobromil synagogue was set fire and 50 Jews were killed by the enraged crowd at Sambor.

Maltreating them, the Lvov inhabitants rounded up about 1,000 Jews and took them to the GPU prison which has been occupied by the Wehrmacht.

III. Measures of the Einsatzgruppe

Approximately 7,000 Jews were rounded up and shot by the Security Police in retaliation for inhuman atrocities.

73 men were found to be functionaries and spies of the NKVD and were likewise shot.

40 men were liquidated on the basis of well-founded denunciations made by the inhabitants. Mainly Jews between 20 and 40 years of age were rounded up, artisans and specialists being set aside as far as possible. Apart from these executions in Lvov, reprisal measures were carried out at other places also: 132 Jews, for instance, were shot in Dobromil.

Since 32 Ukrainians had been murdered in Yavorov, 15 Jews were liquidated in retaliation.

EK 4a

Moved from Cracow via Zamosc to Sokal and from there into the Lutsk district.

Among the civilian prisoners found at Sokal, 17 were discovered to be Communist functionaries, agents and snipers, and were executed on June 28, 1941.

With the help of the Ukrainian militia, another 117 active Communists and agents of the NKVD were found on June 29 and executed the same day.

With the assistance of reliable Ukrainians, residents of Sokal, 183 Jewish Communists were also caught. They were liquidated on June 30.

Furthermore, Horokhov details the discovery of 7 Communist functionaries on June 30 who were shot on the spot.

An advance unit dispatched to Lutsk on June 27 found the larger part of the town in flames. According to information from the town commander, only Jews can be held responsible for the arson. Prior to their withdrawal, the Bolsheviks shot 2,800 of the 4,000 Ukrainians imprisoned in the Lutsk prison. According to the statement of 19 Ukrainians who survived the slaughter with more or less serious injuries, the Jews again played a decisive part in the arrests and shooting. In the town itself everything was still in wild confusion. All shops were looted by the population. After the arrival of the Einsatzkommando all available men were sent to assist the town commander. They succeeded at least in safeguarding the extensive food supplies.

Afterwards the official buildings were systematically searched. Other investigations were started to find the Jews and Communists responsible for the arson and the looting. 300 Jews and 20 looters were arrested and shot on June 30.

On July 2 the corpses of 10 German Wehrmacht soldiers were found. In retaliation, 1160 Jews were shot by the Ukrainians with the help of one platoon of the police and one platoon of the infantry. Finally, 50 Polish agents and informers were discovered who were liquidated also

The methodical searches carried out everywhere by the Einsatzkommando before the arrival of the intelligence units and the Secret Military Police were also successful. Thus, it was possible to find on June 28 lists of agents and other important documents in three party buildings as well as in the bank after safes had been forced open.

On July 1, 1941, the offices of the Russian District Military Headquarters were searched and all files secured which, among other matters, contained secret instructions relating to mobilization.

Moreover, important material, including, among other things, records relating to Russian agents in various countries, was discovered in the buildings of the Lutsk Soviet authorities as well as in different Communist centers after the safes had been forced open.

Einsatzkommando 4b is at work at present in the Tarnopol area. It is planned to have the Kommando proceed to Proskurov.

Of the 54 Poles and Jews who had been working as agents for the NKVD, 8 persons, two of them Jewish women, were arrested and executed, the remainder apparently having taken to their heels.

At Tarnopol 10 [German] soldiers were also found among the murdered in the prison, 1 of them a lieutenant of the air force, 6 pilots and 3 soldiers of the mountain troops. Of the Jews assigned to disinter the corpses, about 180 were slain, some in the prison courtyard, some in the streets. Moreover, Jewish residences were destroyed by members of the Waffen-SS with hand grenades, and then set on fire.

According to the statements of Ukrainians, the number of German members of the Wehrmacht murdered by the Russians is estimated to be much greater.

Reliable Ukrainian circles ventured to say that numerous Ukrainians serving with the Russian army would like to desert immediately. But, like the Russians, time and again, they had been impressed by the fact that they would be shot on the spot by the Germans if they were taken prisoners of war; thus, they had refrained from deserting from sheer fright. Furthermore, the Russians are said to have ordered the complete destruction of all crops in case of a retreat to former Russian territory. They also asked the farmers to retreat with the troops for, otherwise, they would likewise be shot by the Germans.

This being the situation, Ukrainian circles suggest a large-scale leaflet propaganda campaign directed at Ukrainian soldiers and peasants. Apparently, such a propaganda campaign has not yet begun. At any rate, nothing of this kind has become known at Tarnopol.

A Kommando of the Group Staff participated in an action in Zlochev on July 7, 1942, which had only been superficially purged earlier by Einsatzkommando 4b when it passed through the town. In the NKVD office essential secret documents were seized which were already sealed and ready to be sent off.

The investigations at Zlochev proved that the Russians, prior to their withdrawal, arrested and murdered indiscriminately a total of 700 Ukrainians, but nevertheless, included the entire [local]Ukrainian intelligentsia. By order od the Wehrmacht, the militia retaliated by arresting and shooting several hundred Jews. The number of the Jews liquidated may run to about 300-500.

Repeatedly it could be observed that Politruks [party members] who had escaped raided villages at nighttime for food. The influence of the Bandera group is very strong in Zlochev. A revolutionary Ukrainian administration has been established there which welcomes the Germans as there allies with posters and leaflets.

At Rocsicau (1) three saboteurs were arrested who had cut a Wehrmacht telephone line leading to the forward German lines; they had then passed information on to the Russian troops. As a result, German soldiers have been made prisoners of war by the Russians.

These Communist saboteurs were likewise shot.

Well if anyone wants to argue that this document is a forgery and a collection of lies, then you have to reject the document's description of NKVD atrocities commited as the Soviets evacuated the territory in front of the German advance those too have to be false.

Given that documents and testimony found since the collapse of the Soviet Union have shown that yes indeed the NKVD murdered tens of thousands of prisoners has the Germans advanced it appears that this document is accurate about that. So guess what it is probably accurate about the rest. So just how would you argue it is false about the other. Of course just how a document supposidly created by rabid anti-Nazis would contain material so negative about the Soviets is a little mysterious. The venomous and self serving anti-semitic content is appalling although the figures of murdered is much, much, much worst.
 
Well if anyone wants to argue that this document is a forgery and a collection of lies, then you have to reject the document's description of NKVD atrocities commited as the Soviets evacuated the territory in front of the German advance those too have to be false.

Given that documents and testimony found since the collapse of the Soviet Union have shown that yes indeed the NKVD murdered tens of thousands of prisoners has the Germans advanced it appears that this document is accurate about that. So guess what it is probably accurate about the rest. So just how would you argue it is false about the other. Of course just how a document supposidly created by rabid anti-Nazis would contain material so negative about the Soviets is a little mysterious. The venomous and self serving anti-semitic content is appalling although the figures of murdered is much, much, much worst.
The document is of course authentic and damning. LGR got into difficulties with this document because he made false claims about a mass execution in Vilna which OSR 24 comes as close as a piece of paper can to disproving. This set off LGR who began twisting and turning, alternately claiming fraud and trying to change the subject and hurling increasing hysterical accusations . . . etc., etc.
 
Well if anyone wants to argue that this document is a forgery and a collection of lies, then you have to reject the document's description of NKVD atrocities commited as the Soviets evacuated the territory in front of the German advance those too have to be false.

Actually no, the Einsatzgruppen reports run to several thousand pages, it would be absurd to think anyone would forge that quantity de novo. It could be argued perhaps they just forged entire selected reports, but my opinion is that it was simply done on a page by page basis - so that within one report you would have genuine pages and falsified pages sitting alongside each other. Since only 1 copy (perhaps two - but details about the completeness of a 2nd set or their Aufzeichnung number are sketchy) of these reports survived and since the reports are in a mimeographed condition, this would be very easy to do.

I have at least one example when you can see the black version, following by a page which has the white version of the same event. In this case someone screwed up and didn't carefully check the next page to ensure no duplication

Aus zuverlaessigen Partisanen Hilfspolizeitruppe in Staerke von 5 Kompanie das inszwischen in Kowno -Fort 7 - eingerichtete Judenkonzentrationslager und fuehrt die Exekutionen durch, waehrend die andere Kompanie mit dem Feldkommandantan vom Einsatzkommando zu ordnungspolizeilichen Aufgaben verwendet werden soll.
[DIFFERENT PAGE - Page 3 and 4]
Vorraete an Fleisch und Mehl reichen in Kowno noch 6 Wochen. [my emphasis]
Fort VII in Kowno wird als juedisches Kozentrationslager mit 2 Abteilungen eingerichtet:
1) maennliche Juden,
2) weiblcihe Juden und Kinder.
z.Zt sind im Fort etwa1500 Juden untergebracht. Die Bewachung erfolgt von liauischen Wachmannschaften.
Im Zentralgefaengnis sind z.Zt untergrabracht:
1869 Juden
214 Liauer
134 Russen
1 Lette
16 Polen
 
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Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post


They were gonna blow the poison gas all over the camp?
Just contaminate the whole camp(s) day after day? ahahahhahhahahahahahaha
Yes, just like your kitchen's exhaust fan duct exists the house near your front door.

Are you saying it wouldn't have become obvious? Let's stick with the "Holocaust."
No actual statements, and a quick attempt to change the subject.
 
Actually no, the Einsatzgruppen reports run to several thousand pages, it would be absurd to think anyone would forge that quantity de novo. It could be argued perhaps that just forged selected reports, but my opinion is that it was simply done on a page by page basis - so that within one report you would have genuine pages and falsified pages sitting alongside each other. Since only 1 copy (perhaps two - but details about the completeness of the 2nd set or their Aufzeichnung number are sketchy) of these reports survived and since the reports are in a mimeographed condition, this would be very easy to do.
Give your proof for this in the case of OSR 24. Not speculation, not could have or might have. Not easy to do. But what was done, by whom, when, under what conditions, and how you know. Proof of manipulation rather than de novo forgery. You know the drill. Proof.
 
Bunny, perhaps you can answer this key question, which no denier yet has satisfactorily done: If there were forgers working the Holocaust angle, why not forge a Führerbefehl?
 
Give your proof for this in the case of OSR 24. Not speculation, not could have or might have. Not easy to do. But what was done, by whom, when, under what conditions, and how you know. Proof of manipulation rather than de novo forgery. You know the drill. Proof.

I think it is important to emphasis how easy it would have been - assuming there existed any such people so morally degraded as to take advantage of our trusting natures.

All you have to do is have a typewriter that is reasonably close to original, as the mimeograph process would eliminate any font idiosyncrasies specific to each typewriter. You keep the cover sheet, then mimeograph the entire report again so that the papers are all the same consistency and then Ben Ferencz's your uncle.

Remind me again, how long was it between the reports being removed into Allied custody and the reports being officially entered into the record?
 
I think it is important to emphasis how easy it would have been - assuming there existed any such people so morally degraded as to take advantage of our trusting natures.

All you have to do is have a typewriter that is reasonably close to original, as the mimeograph process would eliminate any font idiosyncrasies specific to each typewriter. You keep the cover sheet, then mimeograph the entire report again so that the papers are all the same consistency and then Ben Ferencz's your uncle.

Remind me again, how long was it between the reports being removed into Allied custody and the reports being officially entered into the record?
I hate repeating myself: the request was that you NOT speculate about how easy manipulation might be or what was the possibility for manipulation but rather offer proof of manipulation of this particular document. You fail again you miserable clown.
 
Regarding the OSR's

I am interested in the situation with Kishinev, which was one of the great centers of Ukrainian Jewry

OSR 63 has
The solution of the Jewish question, one of the most important problems, has already been tackled, though only in a hesitant manner. Before the war, there were some 60 to 80,000 Jews in Kishniev.



Many of them left the area when the Russian forces withdrew. When the city was occupied there were approximately 4,000 Jews as some of them had returned.



On the initiative of the Einsatzkommando the Rumanian town commander established a Jewish ghetto in the old part of the city and this ghetto hold some 9,000 Jews at present.



The Jews are divided into labor groups and put at the disposal of the various German and Rumanian offices for street cleaning and other work.

OSR 45 has
Einsatzkommando 11A
Location: Kishinev


In the course of renovating the few official buildings which were not destroyed [ek11] has seized material and discovered several terror and sabotage organizations. Leading agents were shot. Up to this point 551 Jews have been liquidated, of these 151 for participating in sabotage acts, 400 in reprisal for shooting at German medical trucks and for lighting signal flares for Red aviators. Jews are confined to the ghetto if they have not fled.

These reports of execution seem genuine to me. Can we therefore take as genuine the figures of out of 60 000 Jews only 4000 to 9000 did not evacuate? ( We can't sure if the 9000 didnt include Jews concentrated in Kishinev from elsewhere.)

That is between 93% to 85% retreated with the Red Army?

This would illustrate the patchwork nature of the substitutions in the OSRs.
 
Nobody care.



Really? Kishinev is in Moldova. Or did they move it again?

It is today, but you will find that Jews in Kishinev would not have identified themselves as Moldavians around the period we are talking about. Probably they would have thought themselves more Rumanian Jews in anything, although they were pretty glad to have been taken over by the USSR - which, incidentally, might suggest why a rather greater percentage would have chosen to flee.

Actually, some good news Wroclaw. My painstaking research has uncovered some more horrific German killers we should hunt down

March 16 1945, CJC
SURVIVORS FROM OSWEICIM CAMP ARRIVE IN BUCHAREST

BUCHAREST (JTA) - A group of 44 Jewish survivors from the Oswiecim "extermination camp" arrived here this week including a number of Jews who were deported by the Germans from Paris and Brussels.

The Jewish survivors from Oswiecim who arrived here all told the same gruesome stories of how hundreds of thousands of Jews were burned alive in the ovens of the camp. They also related how 3,000 Jewish children, brought to the camp from the Polish towns of Sosnowiec and Bendin, as well as from the Teresienstadt, were killed by the Germans in the Oswiecim gas chambers. The crematories in the extermination camps of Oswiecim and Birkenau were operated under the command of Gestapo leaders Schwarleiber and Palatisch, notorious throughout Germany for their cruelty.

Grrrrr....Schwarleiber and Palatisch...those bastards, far more vicious than Otto Moll. Whatever happened to those two mass murderers?
 
Kishinev is in Moldova. Or did they move it again?
Or at the time Bessarabia, just west of bunny's favorite region, the Transnistria. Bunny thinks a mystery he manufactures regarding Kishinev gets him off the hook on OSR 24, which, given the American attacks on Libya, he cannot get to, so many other matters pending and the backlog so extended, one of the pending matters being, it would seem, Kishinev. Who'd've figured?
 
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