Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[little grey rabbit]

So what were the three steam shovels on site doing?

I presume loading gravel from the commercial gravel pit just down the road.

Funny, no-one has any difficulty finding that giant cavity....

 

[SpitfireIX]

How atrocities really have to be investigated had been shown by the Wehrmacht investigating the Katyn mass graves. However: until 1990 all former allies denied knowing the report and accused the Germans.

From The New York Times, July 3, 1952:

WASHINGTON, July 2 -- A special committee of the House of Representatives announced today its finding that "the Soviet N. K. V. D. [People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs] committed the massacre of thousands of Polish Army officers in the Katyn Forest near Smolensk, Russia, not later than the spring of 1940."

 

[MG1962]

I presume loading gravel from the commercial gravel pit just down the road.

Funny, no-one has any difficulty finding that giant cavity....

Okay so you have nothing....as usual

 

[Clayton Moore]

Not that they were concerned for the safety of the SK, but perhaps the above consideration is why they requisitioned exhaust fans, eh?

Didn't know that? If you didn't, then you don't belong in this debate.

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post

How many Zyklon-B gas chamber executions would it have taken the Germans to figure out that pumping the air out of the chamber would be faster and much safer for the workers?

They were gonna blow the poison gas all over the camp?
Just contaminate the whole camp(s) day after day? ahahahhahhahahahahahaha

 

[TheRedWorm]

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post


They were gonna blow the poison gas all over the camp?
Just contaminate the whole camp(s) day after day? ahahahhahhahahahahahaha

Um, what?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Please explain why none of the US states that formerly used gas chambers for executions ever switched to vacuum asphyxiation if this is so obvious.

Are you saying it wouldn't have become obvious? Let's stick with the "Holocaust."

 

[TSR]

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post
They were gonna blow the poison gas all over the camp?
Just contaminate the whole camp(s) day after day? ahahahhahhahahahahahaha

.
Check here (do a Find for 'A. Use and Toxicity of Hydrogen Cyanide') for a discussion of the use of HCN, after familiarizing yourself with Graham's Law of Diffusion, the concept of vapor pressure, and checking the relative densities of HCN and the usual atmosphere.

Meanwhile, we're still waiting to read how you calculated your death toll, with the sources cited...
.

 

[Wroclaw]

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore View Post

They were gonna blow the poison gas all over the camp?
Just contaminate the whole camp(s) day after day? ahahahhahhahahahahahaha

So I guess they never did any fumigating either, eh?

I mean, what you're suggesting is that poison gas can't dissipate, no matter how long you wait, and no matter how large a space it dissipates into.

So is it your contention that no fumigations were done? Because if it is, you're going to have an assload of Zyklon-B requisitions to Auschwitz to explain away.

Hand-wave, little guy!

 

[Wroclaw]

Are you saying it wouldn't have become obvious? Let's stick with the "Holocaust."

Allow me to translate: "It having been shown that my analogy was idiotic, I, Clayton Moore, will now obfuscate and ask you to forget I ever mentioned it."

 

[Clayton Moore]

.
Check here (do a Find for 'A. Use and Toxicity of Hydrogen Cyanide') for a discussion of the use of HCN, after familiarizing yourself with Graham's Law of Diffusion, the concept of vapor pressure, and checking the relative densities of HCN and the usual atmosphere.


.

That website is little more than an outpost for lies and liars.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Okay so you have nothing....as usual

You had suggested to Little Grey Bunny that the mass graves were dug at Treblinka II using one or more of the large steam shovels (excavators) already operating at Treblinka I. That would probably be correct.

Abraham Krzepicki who worked on the bodies......

"These ditches were 60 or 70 meters long. They were also very deep, but I could not tell how deep they were because the ditches to which we had been assigned were already filled with many layers of corpses. The graves remained open through the night and the next day more bodies were piled into them. While I was in Treblinka, only the small ditch to the left, where I had worked on the first day, was closed. By the time we came out there in the morning, the excavator was already in operation, and digging out new giant graves".

 

[MG1962]

You had suggested to Little Grey Bunny that the mass graves were dug at Treblinka II using one or more of the large steam shovels (excavators) already operating at Treblinka I. That would probably be correct.

Not to mention the reopening of the pits to remove the bodies to the grates

 

[Wroclaw]

That website is little more than an outpost for lies and liars.

Oh, good grief.

Here:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/hydrogencyanide/recognition.html

I suppose OSHA is also staffed by liars?

 

[TSR]

That website is little more than an outpost for lies and liars.

.
And yet, you cannot demonstrate a single lie in the article to which I linked, or anywhere else on the site. One can only infer, then, that there are none and that you are using this as an excuse to avoid having your own lies thrown back at you.

Speaking of which, we're still waiting to read how you calculated your death toll, with the sources cited...
.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Not to mention the reopening of the pits to remove the bodies to the grates

Does the labor involved with the Holocaust ever end?

Every phantom fact of the Holocaust has some sort magic twist to resolve the false numbers.

No gas chambers were found cause the Germans destroyed them all.

We don't know who was killed cause the Germans didn't register them.

The Germans didn't want bodies found so they dug them up and cremated them in pits with green wood and body fat as fuel.

All the old people and children and people who couldn't work were selected, without being registered, for death at the "death" camps.

 

[Think_Tank]

Clayton, I have a question for you (along with Bunny and the rest if they are listening).

What sort of evidence would be required for you to re-assess your view that the Holocaust was faked?

I've said before that I would have to look again at my own views if, for example, it was conclusively proved that a significant proportion (say, 20%) of the victims were in fact secretly deported rather than killed. Evidence (not conjecture) that they had survived and their existance had been concealed from the world would cause me to re-evaluate my position.

What would it take for you to do the same?

 

[little grey rabbit]

Clayton, I have a question for you (along with Bunny and the rest if they are listening).

What sort of evidence would be required for you to re-assess your view that the Holocaust was faked?

I've said before that I would have to look again at my own views if, for example, it was conclusively proved that a significant proportion (say, 20%) of the victims were in fact secretly deported rather than killed. Evidence (not conjecture) that they had survived and their existance had been concealed from the world would cause me to re-evaluate my position.

What would it take for you to do the same?

I don't really think of the Hoax as a whole, rather I chop it down into pieces. So for example Einsatzgruppen/Order Police and the USSR are one piece, Auschwitz gas chambers are another piece, AR camps are another piece, Ghettos are another piece, Concentration Camps generally and the collapse are another piece. Euthanasia are a further piece.

Then I go and look for the evidence underlying each piece and assess how good it is, and evidence of deliberate fraud.
Some pieces are wholly faked, some pieces are somewhat fake, some pieces - perhaps - substantially true.

So in answer to your question - my interest in the Hoax is not a passive one. I do not ask anyone to provide me with evidence as I go out and find it and evaluate it for myself.

Either that or 12 million euros would be highly persuasive.

 

[Think_Tank]

So in answer to your question - my interest in the Hoax is not a passive one. I do not ask anyone to provide me with evidence as I go out and find it and evaluate it for myself.

Allow me to expand on my original question. During your search and evaluation, hypothetically what sort of evidence (in your opinion) would cause you to take a step back and think "Wow... that's pretty damning"? Perhaps a verified document in the vein of the Hofle telegram, but referring to killings rather than arrivals.

Then I go and look for the evidence underlying each piece and assess how good it is, and evidence of deliberate fraud.
Some pieces are wholly faked, some pieces are somewhat fake, some pieces - perhaps - substantially true.

I'm curious - I'm aware of your views on much of the evidence presented, but what do you consider to be "somewhat" fake?

 

[MG1962]

I'm curious - I'm aware of your views on much of the evidence presented, but what do you consider to be "somewhat" fake?

Any evidence not mentioned on denial sites - In other woeds stuf HE actually has to think about

 

[Wroclaw]

Does the labor involved with the Holocaust ever end?

It would be helpful if you familiarized yourself with even the surface level of the literature on this topic.

Every phantom fact of the Holocaust has some sort magic twist to resolve the false numbers.

No. Rather, because you are so poorly informed, you don't bother to think things through, and then you assume no one else has either. So when a new question comes to your mind — one that the SS would have considered during the process — you think you've got a bright new idea.

You don't.

No gas chambers were found cause the Germans destroyed them all.

Except at Majdanek. Oh, and Dachau. And Stutthof. Coupla other places.

We don't know who was killed cause the Germans didn't register them.

But we know to a great extent where these folks were from so that's how we know who some (but not all) of them were.

The Germans didn't want bodies found

Yes...

so they dug them up

Yes...

and cremated them in pits

Sometimes...

with green wood and body fat as fuel.

No. With wood, some of which was certainly green, but some of which was probably also seasoned. And with gasoline or kerosene as fuel.

All the old people and children and people who couldn't work were selected, without being registered, for death at the "death" camps.

Why is that so unbelievable? If you were going to kill hundreds of thousands of people, would you leave a paper trail?