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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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ApolloGnomon said:
I don't understand your statement. Are you suggesting that treating labor for a war effort like garbage is a joke? Or do you mean that discussing the mistreatment of war labor is extinct?

Or perhaps you, like LGR, simply prefer to weasel away from questions that challenge your preconceived notions?

I demand specific, detailed answers, with references, to these questions.
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Do understand what sabotage is? You've watched to many movies with quarries and ships with rowers chained at their station and getting whipped. That doesn't go over to big with factory workers. Has to do with quality control.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Elie Wiesel was asked, when he was I think 16, by Jewish doctors to stay at the Birkenau "death camp" and wait for liberation by the Russians. He chose to evacuate with the Germans who supposedly had been gassing 20,000 Jews a day. That's why your beloved scholars don't say a word about Elie Wiesel.
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For a guy who has no respect in the world of holocaust scholars, the guy sure gets alot of respect.
 
You're addressing my question by dodging? If you're not going to answer the question why are you replying to my questions for LGR?

About 300 workers were hanged for sabotage at the V2 works. Ofthe 60,000 prisoner/slaves total over 20,000 died or were killed -- many died from starvation and malnutrition.

Do you consider this normal for wartime production of weapons? Why do you think comparisons with galley slaves is a good "defense" of your Holocaust denial?
 
Wroclaw said:
Dogzilla, please indicate when in history any person has ever been murdered for making soap out of Jews.

Because I think you'll agree there are more than a couple of instances of Jews being murdered for the blood libel.

And if you want to say that "the Germans" were murdered for the soap story, you'll have to do better than that. I want an example when someone was killed ONLY for the soap story.

I'm waiting.
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I didn't say the Germans or the Nazis or anybody else was murdered only for soap.

I want to see an example when someone was killed ONLY for the blood story.

I too am waiting.
 
Corsair 115 said:
Just in case you've forgotten.
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In case you've forgotten 50 to 60 car trains don't travel empty and could seem suspicious. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And then you have all the staging crap to contend with.

BTW If air reconnaissance worked for troop movements it probably would pick up on thousands of people waiting outside for a train. And there's those pesky phones and radios.
 
You're very glib about all this, clayton. Could you elucidate on these allied air recon capabilities so I understand how hard it would be to hide teh movement of noncombatants deep in a war zone at night?
 
ApolloGnomon said:
You're addressing my question by dodging? If you're not going to answer the question why are you replying to my questions for LGR?

About 300 workers were hanged for sabotage at the V2 works. Ofthe 60,000 prisoner/slaves total over 20,000 died or were killed -- many died from starvation and malnutrition.

Do you consider this normal for wartime production of weapons? Why do you think comparisons with galley slaves is a good "defense" of your Holocaust denial?
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Wow those Germans had lots of irons in the fire? How many fronts? 4 or 5? 6 if you include the Navy. 7 if you include the Air Force. The work camps. The concentration/death camps, the training camps. And of the the support network for every one.

Russia France Africa Poland Britain US Troops by land sea and air. Losing millions of soldiers each year of the war after the US got involved. Managing millions of ALLEGED deportations throughout Europe.

During World War II, the central reservation of some autobahnen were paved to allow their conversion into auxiliary airports. Aircraft were either stashed in numerous tunnels or camouflaged in nearby woods. However, for the most part, the autobahnen were not militarily significant. Motor vehicles could not carry goods as quickly or in as much bulk as trains could, and the autobahnen could not be used by tanks as their weight and caterpillar tracks damaged the road surface. The general shortage of gasoline in Germany during much of the war, as well as the low number of trucks and motor vehicles badly needed for direct support of military operations, further decreased the autobahn's significance. As a result, most military and economic freight was carried by rail. After the war, numerous sections of the autobahnen were in bad shape, severely damaged by heavy Allied bombing and military demolition. Furthermore, thousands of kilometres of autobahnen remained unfinished, their construction brought to a halt by 1943 due to the increasing demands of the war effort.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Autobahnen#History

Of course the gas shortage didn't impede the famous ritual of picking up Jewish people and gassing them in the rear of the VAN on the return trip. Or just plain old hooking a hose to the exhaust and the other end into a room filled with Jewish children, women, and men.
 
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ApolloGnomon said:
You're very glib about all this, clayton. Could you elucidate on these allied air recon capabilities so I understand how hard it would be to hide teh movement of noncombatants deep in a war zone at night?
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Shrewd. Leaving and arriving in the dead of night. Those 60 car trains just sitting there during the day would never draw any attention. It does make me wonder what all those trains were doing before 1942?
 
Clayton Moore said:
610,000 Jewish children, women, and men left and ARRIVED in Treblinka and nobody noticed. And they all were killed in secret. It always comes back to that.
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Please read some basic history. The station master at Treblinka "noticed".

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabecki.html

On 6 August 1944, when the front was very close to Treblinka and the railway station was already closed to traffic and even to railway workers, Franciszek Zabecki, knowing that the station building would be destroyed, smuggled out of there some of the railway documentation concerning the traffic of transports to the death camp......Shortly after the war the original documentation was deposited at the Siedlce court and copies were taken to the Main Commission Office in Warsaw, where they remain to this day.
 
Matthew Ellard said:
Please read some basic history. The station master at Treblinka "noticed".

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabecki.html

On 6 August 1944, when the front was very close to Treblinka and the railway station was already closed to traffic and even to railway workers, Franciszek Zabecki, knowing that the station building would be destroyed, smuggled out of there some of the railway documentation concerning the traffic of transports to the death camp......Shortly after the war the original documentation was deposited at the Siedlce court and copies were taken to the Main Commission Office in Warsaw, where they remain to this day.
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You make me wanna puke with those obvious lies.
 
Dogzilla said:
I didn't say the Germans or the Nazis or anybody else was murdered only for soap.

I want to see an example when someone was killed ONLY for the blood story.

I too am waiting.
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Wow, way to move the goalposts.

You were presented with multiple examples where the blood libel led directly to rioting, pogroms and killings in public, as well as the arrest of suspects who then died under torture or were then killed.

I appreciate that you don't like to concede a point, but now you're just acting like a sore loser, and also acting like a conspiratard, by demanding that these examples eliminate... what? all other motives? And you've studied all the known cases and can show that the blood libel was just an excuse for some deeper motivation to kill Jews down through the ages? All the way back to the middle ages? Really?

Even if you shift the goalposts like that, then you still don't get a cookie, because there are no known cases where the soap myth has led to anyone's death.

And yes, I'm anticipating your next feeble move, so think twice before you try it on.
 
Clayton Moore said:
610,000 Jewish children, women, and men left and ARRIVED in Treblinka and nobody noticed.
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And you know this how? By not reading contemporary news sources, statements, diaries, etc.? By refusing to read historical works? By dint of sheer stupidity and ignorance?
 
Clayton Moore said:
You make me wanna puke with those obvious lies.
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Oh, I see how you know that no one noticed: you make a childish know-nothing reply branding anything that doesn't fit your misconceptions to be a lie. And you do this without offering even the tiniest gesture toward showing how a discordant bit of information is erroneous. You stick your fingers in your ears and close your eyes shut and wail like a child not getting his way. This inane negationism, coupled with LGR's Moscow forgery factory and Wiesel's Tourette's, seems to characterize the genius method of denial on display in here.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
610,000 Jewish children, women, and men left and ARRIVED in Treblinka and nobody noticed.
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They were noticed arriving, alright.


What was never noticed was any of them ever leaving again.


What happened to Guta and Abus Strawczynski?
.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Shrewd. Leaving and arriving in the dead of night. Those 60 car trains just sitting there during the day would never draw any attention. It does make me wonder what all those trains were doing before 1942?
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Perhaps "Sonderzüge in den Tod: die Deportationen mit der Deutschen Reichsbahn ; eine Dokumentation der Deutschen Bahn AG", by Alfred Bernd Gottwaldt (2009) - offers insight?

While making for fascinating forum banter for some reason I doubt your comments will turn into a clever in depth critique of such research and I don't think the "official story" has anything to fear from you as long as a book like that remains in print. So ... what is your point?

Perhaps if you were a real revisionist -not a Holocaust denier- you might have pointed out to ApolloGnomon that it is known that these trains weren't all loaded or traveling at night. Not when they were going to the camps full, nor when they were heading away from the camps -nearly all- empty.

Someone like Rudolf Breslauer didn't film Westerbork trains departing by candle light, after all. Someone like Hubert Pfoch or Fritz Hoeft didn't require flash to take their photos of the crowds in and around the town of Siedlce and its freight train boarding platforms etc. Germans -and Austrians- documenting deportations at ground level. What would Eichmann have done with his time without trains?
 
LemmyCaution said:
No one disappeared, no one saw anything, not a word was said.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...6586,6114225&dq=jews+poland+deportation&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...4462,5424157&dq=jews+poland+deportation&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...7113,6895949&dq=jews+poland+deportation&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAAIBAJ&pg=5349,2792172&dq=jews+poland&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAAIBAJ&pg=5208,2743537&dq=jews+poland&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAAIBAJ&pg=5767,4810280&dq=jews+poland&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAAIBAJ&pg=3269,5493714&dq=jews+poland&hl=en

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAAIBAJ&pg=6084,1619646&dq=jews+poland&hl=en
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Yes, google news archive does have some interesting things in it. But I think our attention will be caught by different items.

Still I did like the Lewiston Morning Tribune
The Chief Rabbi of the British Empire, Dr Joseph H Hertz, preaching in the Spanish and Portuguese synogogue in London, appealed today to the united nations to save Jewish children, at least, from "mass poisoning and burial alive by Hitler and his hell-hounds."
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Dunno, about anybody else but I'm convinced
 
little grey rabbit said:
Yes, google news archive does have some interesting things in it. But I think our attention will be caught by different items.

Still I did like the Lewiston Morning Tribune


Dunno, about anybody else but I'm convinced
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The question, as you well know, had naught to do with whether newspaper articles and statements from observers, dating from 1942, constitute good proof of extermination; the question was whether anyone noticed disappearances and deportations. Your flippancy and mockery which amount to Jew baiting are duly noted. It is heart-warming indeed that you always meet the low expectations we have for you.
 
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