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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Are you really this stupid or just pretending to be?

Is he genuinely denying that Eastern European Jews lived in conditions of at least some difficulty during the first half of the twentieth century? Why does he think millions of Jews came to America during that period? Virtually all of the Jews in America are descended from Jews that emigrated from Eastern Europe between 1880 and 1915. If everything was hunky dory back in Europe, why'd they move in such large numbers?
 
(Shrug) if lots of stories about the holocaust appeared, Saggy would claim it "proves" the "Jew-owned" NYT deliberately was engaging in false propaganda, and therefore the holocaust is a lie. If few stories about the holocaust appeared, Saggy would claim it "proves" "even the Jew-owned" NYT didn't have any stories about Jews being killed at the time, so the holocaust is a post-war lie.

and with either argument, he'd be forgetting the LA Times, Chicago Tribune, the Hearst group papers, the Times in London, the Manchester Guardian, Canadian newspapers, Australian newspapers.... which were not Jewish-owned, therefore he ignores them as they're inconvenient to his fantasies.
 
Is he genuinely denying that Eastern European Jews lived in conditions of at least some difficulty during the first half of the twentieth century? Why does he think millions of Jews came to America during that period? Virtually all of the Jews in America are descended from Jews that emigrated from Eastern Europe between 1880 and 1915. If everything was hunky dory back in Europe, why'd they move in such large numbers?

TBH, I don't think Dogzilla knows what he's arguing anymore. His posts read like a random, disjointed collection of sneers for the sake of sneering, no matter what the consequences for his already virtually nonexistent credibility.
 
Oh, of course and since some Sergeant in the vietnam war lied about the orgin of his itchy rash on his private parts, the whole vietnam war didn't happen.

Precisely.

Individual events may be judged on a purely true/false basis. Entire historical phenomena cannot.

For someone congenitally unable to answer yes/no questions, you'd think Saggy would get this...
 
So how many stories were there about Belgium in the same time-frame, hmm, Saggy? Or about the Netherlands?

There were nearly as many Belgians and Dutch as there were Jews in Europe at the start of the war. Belgians and Dutch lived under Nazi occupation just like Jews did across Europe, right?

So how come there are 2,486 stories in the NYT from 1941-43 alone which mention Belgium? That deliberately excludes 1940 and 1944 when Belgium was twice a battleground.

NYT wasn't Belgian-owned was it?

LOL. Belgium is a country, slick, in the middle of WW II, not an ethnic group.
 
Oh, of course and since some Sergeant in the vietnam war lied about the orgin of his itchy rash on his private part, the whole vietnam war didn't happen. Or even better, there is no such thing as Vietnam! I knew it the whole time! :rolleyes:

We're not talking about 'some Sergeant', we're talking about the most referenced eyewitness, Yankel Wiernik, and Nobel Prize winner and first director of the USHMM Elie Weisel. See the difference? Or do I need to explain it further? I know it's not easy, kind of like the difference between a country and an ethnic group, and that's something that can confuse even a professor (of something).
 
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First sentence, post #887
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"Why have neither you nor any other denier here actually *cited* any of these articles", which show a "slew" of articles, which is what you posted in support of.

Which remains true, and therefore not a lie.
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The strawman that says that I said anything except do a search and see how many hits you get. The thing about Jewish whining isn't a strawman but that didn't come until later.
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But since you *hadn't* done that search, your assertion that it would be fruitful *was* a lie, since you stated your point was regarding such whining, and you hadn't (and still don't) the slightest idea of the content for which you wanted everyone else to search.

And just to put it in context, that search was supposed to be in support of Saggy's lies about a whole slew of articles published in the NYT from 1915-22 with holohoax lies. Tell us, just how many of those 15 articles do you believe demonstrate "holohoax lies"?




What's that?



Exactly none?




Then other than providing me with few moments' diversion, why did you even suggest it?
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OK, so you're saying that no such articles were published in the NYT during the years 1851 and 1933 and you're supporting it by showing us that slightly more than one article during a ten year period did in fact appear? Which "ten year period" did you choose and couldn't you find any ten year period in which no such articles appeared? They're really that pervasive? And can you quantify "slightly more than one" with any less precision?
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No, I'm not. I baldly stating, based on your posts here, that *you* have never supplied citations to any such articles.


And *still* haven't.



Because you apparently couldn't care less if what you said was true in your mindless support of Saggs "slew of articles" lie.

The date range was suggested by you, in case you forgot. The ten year average (get your mommy to explain the concept) was simply a result of doing the search *you* suggested during the range that *you* suggested, none of which articles support your now admitted point that the Jews were whining and the implied point that Saggy was right in asserting a "slew of articles".




Could you please make a clear point (other than "I hate Jews") and offer support for it about these 15 articles for which you suggested I look? Do they constitute a "slew"? Which of them are whining?
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I didn't do the work because I trust everybody here is able to figure out how to search the New York Times archives themselves. I also didn't want to do a search that could potentially give a bunch of hits that are premium content.
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Can you offer even *one* hit from the war years or prior which is "premium content"?
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(That's not so much of a problem with this time period but as we get closer to the war, the NYT wants you to pay for the articles)
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No, in fact, they don't.


Seriously, check your sources so you don't get caught is such blatant lies.



Or tell you what: Find a war time article they charge for, and I will take six month hiatus from pointing out your idiocy.
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I don't want to hear the whining of people saying "those articles all have dollar signs next to them and I don't want to pay to read them so they don't exist."
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Well, good thing they *don't* charge then, which you would know if you had ever actually, you know, gone to the site.
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If you really want to do a comprehensive search, you'd need to do a Boolean search for all those terms without the quotes and then filter the articles. For example, instead of "six million Jews" look for "six million" and Jews or six and million and Jews or 6,000,000 Jews.You'd need to do a search replacing "Jews" with "Hebrews" (because they used that word back in the olden days). If you can't do a wildcard search, you would need to go through all the searches again with "Jewish" instead of "Jews."
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And how many articles do these URLs produce? How does that number support either the "slew" you posted to support, or your later claim of "whining"? Post the *specific* URLs you feel support either of these points, or admit that they do not.

Now, which of these, specifically (with the, you know, linky), represent "whining"? And how many, stretching the search to the end of the war, require payment?
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See, it takes quite a bit of work to make sure you covered all your bases. But I didn't bother doing it mainly because your mini-search accomplished what I wanted you to accomplish: search the archives with those terms and count the hits.
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Which doesn't support either Saggy's 'point' about a "slew" or your point about "whining".
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Because I trust the participants here to be able to read the articles and decide for themselves. Obviously, you just got through reading those articles online. You're probably more familiar with what they said than I am. If you believe I'm wrong, why don't you quote the author, with the link, to show the reader I am wrong?
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Oh, I'm obviously more familiar with them than you, having ACTUALLY DONE THE SEARCH.

And the URLs I've already provided show that you are wrong.
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What's that?

You don't want to do that?

Why?

Because it will prove I'm right?
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Right about what? There being a "slew", or that the articles are "whining", or that the NYT requires you to pay for war time articles?

Why don't *you* give even one link to an article which demonstrates any of these points that you have tried to make?





What's that?





You don't want to do that?






Why?





Because you know that it will prove that *I* am right when I say you are lying about all three points you seem to be championing?




That's what I thought.
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That's what I thought.
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No, you quite obviously do *not* think before you support claims of "slews" or make claims of "whining" and having to pay for articles.
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I read those fifteen articles. I didn't read the hundreds of others.
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Ah, then you can cite a few that are whining.

Or for which you have to pay.


Or even give an URL that shows hundreds of articles on any of your original search parameters.






What's that?







You can't do any of these?






Because none of them support you?





Prove me wrong, whiner.
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What lie was that?
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Well, for example, that Jean-Claude, Richard, and Jacques Benguigui's non-Jewish neighbors suffered under the same conditions as they did.







But you couldn't care less about trying to support your lies, can you?
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If the European Jews were always living under the threat of destruction
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Since you have demonstrate that European Jews were "always living under the threat of destruction", straw man appeal to facts not demonstrated snipped.
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Or were there actually articles addressing this topic?
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No, there weren't. Feel free to actually provide URLs, paid or not, which show differently, whiner.
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Or tell you what: Find a war time article they charge for, and I will take six month hiatus from pointing out your idiocy.

Que?

  • — 1923–1986: Articles in this date range (from January 1, 1923 through December 31, 1986) are available for purchase at $3.95 each.
  • — Pre-1923 and post-1986: Articles published before January 1, 1923 or after December 31, 1986 are free, but they count toward your monthly limit.
 
We're not talking about 'some Sergeant', we're talking about the most referenced eyewitness, Yankel Wiernik, and Nobel Prize winner and first director of the USHMM Elie Weisel. See the difference? Or do I need to explain it further? I know it's not easy, kind of like the difference between a country and an ethnic group, and that's something that can confuse even a professor (of something).

And we are still waiting for you to supply something other than your opinion that either person lied about their experiences.

You can keep telling us they lied, but ulitmately the lurkers are going to side against you simply because you cant put up and you wont shut up
 
And we are still waiting for you to supply something other than your opinion that either person lied about their experiences.

You can keep telling us they lied, but ulitmately the lurkers are going to side against you simply because you cant put up and you wont shut up

Somebody tell this idiot (Saggy, i.e.) that nobody outside of Holocaust historians and people debating the Holocaust know about Wiernik.
 
Que?

  • — 1923–1986: Articles in this date range (from January 1, 1923 through December 31, 1986) are available for purchase at $3.95 each.
  • — Pre-1923 and post-1986: Articles published before January 1, 1923 or after December 31, 1986 are free, but they count toward your monthly limit.
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I sit corrected. Sometimes having the computer remember these things is not so good. < note to self: did I really spend $60 showing DZ's mendacity? Check the NYT account. >

DZ: you have a six month pass. Make the most of it.

Maybe by citing which of those 'hundreds' of articles you found represent "whining" by anyone but you with actual quotes? Any, oh, say, dozen will do.

But keep in what passes for your mind that I can check, and will point your cr*p out after November runs around....
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LOL. Belgium is a country, slick, in the middle of WW II, not an ethnic group.

And yet there were more Jews in Europe than there were Belgians. But that didn't stop the NYT running countless stories like these

Germans Imprison Brussels Burgomaster; His Defiance Held to Typify Belgian Spirit [PDF]

LONDON, July 15 -- Dr. F.J. van de Meulebroeck, Burgomaster of Brussels, has been, arrested by the German military authorities, Belgian Premier Hubert Pierlot announced here today. He was dismissed from office last month for failure to cooperate with the ...View free preview
July 16, 1941 - Special Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES. - Article


BELGIUM STARVING, EMISSARY REPORTS; Finance and War Minister Concedes Problem is to Keep Food From ... [PDF]

Belgium is on the verge of starvation, and the solution of the problem depends on finding a formula guaranteeing that no food shipped to Belgium will be used directly or indirectly by the Germans, Camille Gutt, Minister of Finance and of War in the Belgia...View free preview
April 8, 1941 - Article

ONLY 2 WEEKS' FOOD FOUND IN BELGIUM; Hoover's Observers on Ground Declare Many Staples Are Already ... [PDF]

BERLIN, Feb. 1 -- For the second time within a generation, Belgium faces famine. Famished children of the last war have grown up to see their own children facing starvation in the present conflict. By Feb. 15 supplies of baste foodstuffs in Belgium will b...View free preview
February 2, 1941 - By PERCIVAL KNAUTHWireless to THE NEW YORK TIMES. - Article



BELGIUM REPORTED SLOWLY STARVING; Adviser to Exiled Government in London Says Health of Generations... [PDF]

Terming the general health situation in Belgium alarming, Dr. Edouard J. Bigwood, technical adviser to the Belgian Government in London, declared in a report made public yesterday that "it seems inevitable that the health of several generations will be ir...View free preview
September 8, 1941 - Article
 
Point being that you could easily extract all the stories about the Belgian government in exile, Belgian colonies and Belgian troops fighting on the Allied side, and you would be left with a very large number of stories about Belgium under Nazi occupation.

Many of the stories wouldn't be much different to the stories about the Jews. The Nazis were quite good at shooting hostages wherever they went, or deporting them to concentration camps, or arresting town mayors, or stealing things, or lowering rations, or causing food crises, or provoking resistance.

The stories would also be placed very similarly, on the inside pages, in world news/foreign news/European news.

So the question is, how many stories about Belgium under Nazi occupation (or Norway, or Denmark, or the Netherlands) would you expect, and can you prove that there were disproportionately more stories about the Jews under Axis rule, given that the Jews outnumbered many of the nations concerned.

Oh, and for the Jewish ownership of the NYT to matter regarding how many stories there were about the Jews under Nazi occupation and Axis rule, you'd have to show that there were disproportionately more such stories than in a non-Jewish owned newspaper, such as the Chicago Tribune.

Good luck with that. The Chicago Tribune wasn't Jewish-owned, and probably ran slightly more stories on the fate of the Jews than did the NYT.

NYT Digital Archive and ProQuest Historical Newspapers search engines are thataway ---->
 
I know it's not easy, kind of like the difference between a country and an ethnic group, and that's something that can confuse even a professor (of something).

although your chief inanity here has already been corrected and is pretty dumb to begin with (there were more Jews in Poland than there were Norwegians in Norway at the outbreak of WWII), there's one more to go. In the UK academic system, most full-time staff are not professors.
 
Many of the stories wouldn't be much different to the stories about the Jews.

What complete and utter rubbish. Show me one story about the Nazis tearing Belgian babies in half. One story about the Nazis throwing Belgian adults into one burning pit and the children into another. How about the gas chambers? The shrunken heads? The genocide? Did the Nazis make soap out of the Belgians too? Human skin lampshades from Belgian prisoners? The holohoax is a pack of degenerate lies that is unique in the history of the human race and will forever brand the liars themselves, and people like you who endlessly parrot them, and the most debased persons the world has ever seen.
 
What complete and utter rubbish. Show me one story about the Nazis tearing Belgian babies in half. One story about the Nazis throwing Belgian adults into one burning pit and the children into another. How about the gas chambers? The shrunken heads? The genocide? Did the Nazis make soap out of the Belgians too? Human skin lampshades from Belgian prisoners? The holohoax is a pack of degenerate lies that is unique in the history of the human race and will forever brand the liars themselves, and people like you who endlessly parrot them, and the most debased persons the world has ever seen.

Could you point out any examples of Nazis who were persecuted, arrested, charged or otherwise disadvantaged by their involvement in human soap, human lampshades or throwing babies into burning pits please.
 
What complete and utter rubbish. Show me one story about the Nazis tearing Belgian babies in half. One story about the Nazis throwing Belgian adults into one burning pit and the children into another. How about the gas chambers? The shrunken heads? The genocide? Did the Nazis make soap out of the Belgians too? Human skin lampshades from Belgian prisoners? The holohoax is a pack of degenerate lies that is unique in the history of the human race and will forever brand the liars themselves, and people like you who endlessly parrot them, and the most debased persons the world has ever seen.

And here you spectacularly miss the point, as usual. I said

Many of the stories wouldn't be much different to the stories about the Jews. The Nazis were quite good at shooting hostages wherever they went, or deporting them to concentration camps, or arresting town mayors, or stealing things, or lowering rations, or causing food crises, or provoking resistance.

I didn't say all stories about Belgium were the same as all stories about Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe. I said that many would not be much different.

Here is a story about the Nazis shooting Jews as hostages in France

HEAR NAZIS SHOT 95 JEWS; Swiss Get Report That Five Paris Hostages Were Freed [PDF]

Berne Suisse repts Germans shot 95 Jews as hostages...View free preview
December 25, 1941 - Article

and here are reports about Belgian hostages being shot

Execution Toll Put at 3,000 [PDF]

More than "3,000 Belgians" have been "executed or simply murdered" by Nazi occupation authorities since Belgium was invaded on May 28, 1940, the British Broadcasting Corporation said yesterday in a broadcast to the Continent, as recorded by United States ...View free preview
July 22, 1943 - Article

20 Belgian Hostages Shot [PDF]

Gers execute 20 hostages for violent acts; offer reward for clues to murderers of 2 Wehrmacht members, Brussels...View free preview
January 13, 1943 - By Telephone to THE NEW YORK TIMES. - Article



Now, unless you are completely mad, you will agree that these stories are comparing like with like. Only the identity of the victims changes.

Which, incidentally, is a salutary reminder that your Nazi heroes murdered millions of non-Jews in their rampage across Europe. Funny how you never, ever fuss over those. It's almost as if the only reason you obsess over the Holocaust is your antisemitism...
 
Why do you hate Germans so much?
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Why do you pretend that I do?

Free hint: my first marriage was to a German-American whose parents lived on the wrong side of the Berlin Wall. Guess where we met, guess how they got over the Wall? Why would I marry such a person, if I "hate Germans so much"?
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Could you point out any examples of Nazis who were persecuted, arrested, charged or otherwise disadvantaged by their involvement in human soap, human lampshades or throwing babies into burning pits please.

Saggy's confusion deepens; the Buchenwald shrunken heads and lampshades were never identified as being from Jewish victims and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Holocaust as this term is usually understood, i.e. the genocide of European Jews. Nor did the Danzig Anatomy Institute case involve Jews, it in fact involved the corpses of Germans sentenced to death who 'donated' their bodies to medical science.

So this forces me to conclude, yet again, that Saggy hasn't got the slightest clue what he is talking about.

If Saggy thinks that the concentration camps in Germany are part of the Holocaust, then he should be reminded that they claimed hundreds of thousands of non-Jewish victims as well.
 
Saggy's confusion deepens; the Buchenwald shrunken heads and lampshades were never identified as being from Jewish victims and have nothing whatsoever to do with the Holocaust as this term is usually understood, i.e. the genocide of European Jews. Nor did the Danzig Anatomy Institute case involve Jews, it in fact involved the corpses of Germans sentenced to death who 'donated' their bodies to medical science.

Wow. The holohoax wasn't about the Jews after all. Thanks for the update !

Anyhow, I just wanted to quote an article from USA Today, representative, of the complete degenerate filth that the media broadcasts to the world EVERY FREAKING DAY .... here's the complete article ...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-11-19-holocaust-papers_x.htm

"I saw with my own eyes how thousands of Jews were gassed daily and thrown by the hundreds into pits where Jews were burning," he said.

"I saw how little children were killed with sticks and thrown into the fire," he continued. Blood flowed in gutters, and "Jews were thrown in and died there"; more were taken off trucks and cast alive into the flames.


This is the basis of the holohoax, degenerate lies endlessly repeated, not by raving idiots, but by the major media, by academia, by politicians, and by the government.
 
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