This is a false statement. It IS true that you can be thrown in jail for promoting hate speech. It is easy to pretend that ALL they have done is deny the Holocaust. But this is a gross distortion of what is really happening. People are not "thrown in jail" for simply denying the Holocaust. Otherwise there would be a whole hellofalot of people sitting in European jails right now. There is more to the legality of that issue. Please stop being disingenuous if you are seriously trying to have a discussion.
I'm curious--I don't know the answer to this question--has anybody ever been jailed in Europe for "hate speech" by proclaiming that a non-holocaust genocide didn't happen?
NO please pause on this point. The testimony should be QUESTIONED if it can not be backed up with physical evidence. However you want to just toss the whole thing.
It should be questioned no matter what. If the physical evidence doesn't support it, then that part of the testimony should be discarded.
This is true. No one is debating you on this. In fact in the Donohue clip you see the two witnesses be told that their parents were now in the smoke. Another woman told her not to use the soap because it came from fat. These are two teenage girls thrust into the middle of an insane situation who have been told terrible things and believed it. This makes sense to everyone on here. No one is debating you on this.
Between the sister on stage and the one in the audience, it was claimed emphatically that Jews were turned into soap, one sister lived right next to the crematorium and said it smelled just like roast chicken. The one on stage said that the Sondercommando working in the "gas chamber" came back to the barracks every night and told her and the other prisoners what had been going on and that they were killed every few months so there would be no eyewitnesses. She said that Dr. Mengele allowed a younger sibling to join their mother because Mengele "didn't want a commotion" at the selection. And finally, she said that the Jews were given some sort of medication to keep them calm.
Problems:
1) Nobody was turned into soap.
2) Nobody lived right next door to the Krema unless they worked inside it.
3) Sondercommandos who were going to be killed after six months so there wouldn't be any eyewitnesses wouldn't be allowed to go back to the regular prisoner barracks to bear witness to their activities.
4) Mengele wouldn't care about "a commotion" at the selection.
5) Nazis didn't distribute sedatives to the prisoners in the camps.
Everybody here agrees that these two teenage girls were traumatized by their experience in Auschwitz. Does anybody think that either of these women are reliable witnesses to anything?
Yes there are thousands and thousands of witnesses. And also keep in mind we are only looking at documented evidence. When the camp was liberated there were also plenty of witnesses talking that wasn't documented. But beyond that we have THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of witnesses and many of them are German. Of course deniers will disregard all that testimony because it doesnt' jibe with what they want to believe. So you disregard all of it.
What do you mean by "documented evidence?" Are you saying that there were plenty of witnesses talking but those testimonies weren't written down?
You may be correct--that there are thousands and thousands of eyewitnesses who told what they saw but if these testimonies weren't written down, they're not very helpful to either of us, are they?
THIS? This is what I'd like to know? There is plenty of evidence that the Germans wanted a "FINAL SOLUTION" to the Jews and that this final solution was to get rid of them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together here.
Get rid of them=removing them from the sphere of German influence. Not killing them.
What part are you denying. Kageki I have been asking you from the very beginning, "What difference does it make?"
The word Holocaust doesn't mean "Gassing"
It means an act of mass destruction and loss of life. This is what HAPPENED. Whether they were gassed or shot or shoved in labor camps with typhus epidemics, they were rounded up for being Jewish, sent to camps, separated from their families and killed. This is what happened.
If gassing isn't important, why not drop it?
To me it is that you resent the "sympathy and power" Jews have been able to gain from this event.
It does come across as an annoyance that they got "special status" because of their victimhood or that the Holocaust is considered worse than all the other similar events out there.
Part of this is because Jews had no state at this time. There was no place of refuge. You suggested that no one wanted them. History has born this out as true. And this is what makes it somewhat different than any other event in history. When the Gypsies were also persecuted they weren't able to go to a "homeland."
And as I have stated many pages ago this is what makes it different. This is why Israel so important to the Jews and why coupled with a religious perspective, things in Israel are so messed up.
Any perceived power or sympathy the Jews gain from the holocaust today is a separate discussion. Even if the holocaust occurred exactly the way Hollywood shows us that it did, the question of why the Arab population should pay for the crimes committed on another continent by a people of a different religion remains.
