Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[kageki]

You have not responded to Zimmerman on this point. Your stating a "problem," your getting a response, your not replying to that new material, and then you re-stating that a "problem" exists is an exercise in highlighting your dishonesty.



You base your belief on whatever casts Jews in a bad light.



Q.e.d.

You haven't mentioned Zimmerman yet.

No I don't, but it seems like you find it necessary to defend anything about Jews. Criticism is due wherever.

 

[kageki]

So you are only defending the ultimate German war atrocity. Nice to know you draw the line somewhere.

I'm glad you understand why it matters so much.

 

[Walter Ego]

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/5114_00.htm


So where is your proof?

You tell me how I can be aryan as an asian. I recall saying you were Jewish and your non-answer is suggesting that is true.

Do you have a problem with someone being a Jew, Kageki? Do we have to disclose if we are Jews so you will know if we have a "bias" on the issues being discussed? Could you imagine someone who is not a Jew being outraged by the German genocides against the Jews, Romas, Slavs, et al, and being further outraged by those who would deny these genocides occurred? Are you saying those who say that the gas chambers did exist must have a "hidden" agenda?

 

[TSR]

The problem of disposal and the scale claimed.

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And what problems are those?
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Who is fervently trying to believe?

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That would be you.
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You basically base your belief on whatever is considered acceptable.

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No, I base my understanding on what the evidence shows.
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Being Jewish would also pose a huge bias on this topic.

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Because?

If I were Native American, would that make facts that I might present regarding the Trail of Tears invalid?

If I were Armenian, any comments on Mec Yeġeṙn can be disregarded?

If I were Chinese, that little difficulty at Nǎntɕíŋ is off limits for discussion?
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[Walter Ego]

I'm glad you understand why it matters so much.

Being charitable, I will assume English is not your native language and you don't recognize sarcasm when you see it.

 

[Wroclaw]

You haven't mentioned Zimmerman yet.

{Sigh}

Yes, I did, but here it comes again:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

No I don't, but it seems like you find it necessary to defend anything about Jews. Criticism is due wherever.

Please demonstrate this. I, on the other hand, have everyone participating in this thread besides Saggy and Dogzilla siding with me on this point, i.e., your problem with Jews.

 

[TSR]

Do you have a problem with someone being a Jew, Kageki?

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Yeah, you know those Asians -- racist to the core, thinking they're some sort of, you know, master race. Of course, they were only "honourary aryans", and so weren't *really* superior.

Do I even need to include <sarcasm> tags?
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[Walter Ego]

You haven't mentioned Zimmerman yet.

No I don't, but it seems like you find it necessary to defend anything about Jews. Criticism is due wherever.

So anyone who would defend Jews must be a Jew? Go ahead and say it, Kageki. You will feel better afterwards and so will we.

 

[truethat]

I am not making any such claims. My motivation was in regards to TSR's accusations.

I have responded. You have basically been repeating yourself at this point.

No you haven't.

Here is the question. Just answer this:

What difference does it make if the people were gassed or shot? How does this change what happened? In your opinion. I'm not asking you for statistics or to back it up. Just your opinion.

Make it like 5-6 sentences explaining your position.

 

[TSR]

I am not making any such claims.

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If you aren't climing that a Jew cannot honestly research the question of the Holocaust, then what is the point of your question about whether I am or not?
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My motivation was in regards to TSR's accusations.

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What "accusations" are those, and what makes them "mine"?
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[kageki]

Do you have a problem with someone being a Jew, Kageki? Do we have to disclose if we are Jews so you will know if we have a "bias" on the issues being discussed? Could you imagine someone who is not a Jew being outraged by the German genocides against the Jews, Romas, Slavs, et al, and being further outraged by those who would deny these genocides occurred? Are you saying those who say that the gas chambers did exist must have a "hidden" agenda?

No I don't and I do understand that non-Jews would be outraged in particular from the Allied nations. Well anyone would be outraged if it really did happen.

I'm not saying there is a hidden agenda. I'm saying there is a bias and a good deal lack of objectivity. You could see how Jews would be fairly biased on the topic of the Holocaust? Look at some posters like Thunder or TSR who are particularly belligerent and over the top with accusations. I am not an aryan or a Nazi or hate Jews. I just wanted to see where some of these people were coming from.

There was an interesting post at CODOH recently that relates to this:

http://www.codoh.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6423&sid=ca39018aff59f2f91ab95992b5492e03

I lived in Germany for a while during a military posting and was openly discriminative and disrespectful to Germans simply because I'd spent years being conditioned to believe they were evil or perpetrators of a great inhumanity.

I was commended and encouraged for doing so.

 

[kageki]

No you haven't.

Here is the question. Just answer this:

What difference does it make if the people were gassed or shot? How does this change what happened? In your opinion. I'm not asking you for statistics or to back it up. Just your opinion.

Make it like 5-6 sentences explaining your position.

I already said I answered this awhile back.

 

[truethat]

No I don't and I do understand that non-Jews would be outraged in particular from the Allied nations. Well anyone would be outraged if it really did happen.

I'm not saying there is a hidden agenda. I'm saying there is a bias and a good deal lack of objectivity. You could see how Jews would be fairly biased on the topic of the Holocaust? Look at some posters like Thunder or TSR who are particularly belligerent and over the top with accusations. I am not an aryan or a Nazi or hate Jews. I just wanted to see where some of these people were coming from.

There was an interesting post at CODOH recently that relates to this:

http://www.codoh.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6423&sid=ca39018aff59f2f91ab95992b5492e03

I lived in Germany for a while during a military posting and was openly discriminative and disrespectful to Germans simply because I'd spent years being conditioned to believe they were evil or perpetrators of a great inhumanity.

I was commended and encouraged for doing so.

Again your examples are of people who are "stupid" for lack of a better word. My posting history should show I loathe using this word.

Treating Germans poorly because of the Holocaust is stupid. The people we are normally engaging with are not in any way associated with what happened during Nazi Germany.

My family history includes Germans and no one has ever treated me poorly because of the Holocaust. If they did they would be just as stupid as someone treating an Israeli poorly based on the communist movements in Nazi Germany.

May I ask how old you are Kageki?

I already said I answered this awhile back.

Please quote yourself if you can't remember what you said. I can't find it.


Thanks

 

[kageki]

So anyone who would defend Jews must be a Jew? Go ahead and say it, Kageki. You will feel better afterwards and so will we.

No. I'm not sure how you got that understanding.

 

[Walter Ego]

.
Yeah, you know those Asians -- racist to the core, thinking they're some sort of, you know, master race. Of course, they were only "honourary aryans", and so weren't *really* superior. ]

Interestingly, the Buddhist Eightfold Path was originally known as the Aryan Path, a path only for superior (i.e., Aryan) men. I have a book on my shelves called The Doctrine of Awakening first published in Italy in 1943 that makes a big point of this in the introduction. According to this view, the Buddha was not an "honorary" Aryan, he was an Aryan.

Do I even need to include <sarcasm> tags?
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With Kageki, yes, alas.

 

[truethat]

[

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for civility.

I know Auschwitz is a labor camp now, but what I meant was that I didn't know that before, growing up, when I was still essentially a de facto believer. Most people's knowledge consists of what they learn in high school. Most people don't go out of there way to read much of anything else besides what's assigned to them in school and that's most likely not original wartime reports or anything close to that. It's mostly just that history textbook and whatever your teacher decides to tell you. That back then I was not told that Auschwitz was a labor camp and pretty much anything else at all besides a vivid description of how Jews would all run up to the gas chamber door. Oh and that Nazis burned Jews alive. Well a teacher didn't tell me that. I don't know where I heard it. All I know is I heard it somewhere and grew up thinking about how Nazis were gruesomely burning Jews alive in ovens. You can only blame the public education system for my ignorance about the Holocaust then. I suppose all that matters is that I know that Jews were being gassed and burned alive in ovens.

Please show me documentation that led you to believe that Jews were "burned alive" in the ovens?

Basically you are blaming your lack of understanding on a "conspiracy" but really you misunderstood the information you were told. Now instead of recognizing your ignorance you are blaming the Jews for telling you this.

Tisk tisk tisk

 

[kageki]

[




Please show me documentation that led you to believe that Jews were "burned alive" in the ovens?

Basically you are blaming your lack of understanding on a "conspiracy" but really you misunderstood the information you were told. Now instead of recognizing your ignorance you are blaming the Jews for telling you this.

Tisk tisk tisk

How do you expect one to provide documentation for such a thing. There are even those yahoo answer things about people being burned alive.

Where did I say I was blaming Jews about this? Ignorance? How about that survivor who still believes in the soap story?

Now you are just being ridiculous and don't have anymore details to add to the discussion of gas chambers. It was pretty amusing how you tried to argue that gas chambers existed based on some religious law though.

 

[Wroclaw]

There was an interesting post at CODOH recently that relates to this:

CODOH is a worthless cesspool. The debates are rigged and posts that prove deniers are routinely deleted. The moderator there is the biggest coward in the world.

 

[Wahrheitseeker]

Yes, gaskammer appears on all the blueprints because they had rooms where clothing and bedding was deloused.

As the gassing components are mentioned for the morgues, bit of an odd situation, no? Essentially, you have just discredited the revisionist arguments against the gas chambers. Nice.

Also, what happened to them as simple morgues (as you suggested earlier)?

The ability to cremate the entire inmate population doesn't need to be addressed because the crematorium couldn't do that. We know exactly what the crematorium looked like and how they worked. Despite what your "historians" with no knowledge of physics have told you, the crematorium could not cremate the entire camp population within a month.

If that were the case, why did they have burning pits? Heck, why didn't they just use burning pits exclusively like they did at Treblinka? Thats the question the exterminationists keep running away from.

The crematoria couldn't do that? So you're just going to ignore the documents that I referred to? Pretend they don't exist? Yeah, I'll take the word of the ovens' actual designer and engineer over an internet troll.

On why they had burning pits, that is a good question isn't it? Obviously the deaths in the camp were outpacing the ability of the ovens to cremate them (with a few offline). How can we account for these deaths? It is easy for anyone who approaches the issue honestly, but not so much for deniers.

 

[Dave Rogers]

If you aren't climing that a Jew cannot honestly research the question of the Holocaust, then what is the point of your question about whether I am or not?

I think the idea is that the Jews hate the Germans because the Germans killed millions of Jews during WW2, therefore they've made up a false story about the Germans killing millions of Jews during WW2 to get back at them. It's a classic piece of Mobius logic; in order to accept the conclusion you have to deny the major premise.

Dave