Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Walter Ego]

Finally He Has Said it!

If Kageki's point is that parts of the historical narrative are now known to be false, then I suppose, quite literally, EVERY FREAKING PERSON IN THIS THREAD CONCEDES THAT POINT.

However, if he is unaware that the Holocaust is not unique in this respect and that you don't throw out verified testimony because some was false, then he's too stupid to talk to.

Kageki takes the name of a Japanese samurai and then comes to this forum to defend German atrocities. He is either a faux-naif or, as you say, too stupid to talk to, probably a combination of both.

 

[kageki]

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Really? What were their names? Surely, if you know their religion, you have this information.

"Jews" as a group did *not* commit the Armenian genocide.
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No, I want you to define what *you* mean by "Jews", and demonstrate that they were a majority or even a significant percentage of the Bolshevist movement, and were not an even greater percentage or raw numbers part of opposition groups.
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Off <sic> course, I can provide proof of every claim I have made about Henio.

Which is that you are desperate to avoid looking into the matter so you can pretend he wasn't killed at Madjanek.

Keep running, brave aryan warrior.
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If you explain in rational terms why this question is relevant, I will answer.
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http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/5114_00.htm

Having said that, we continue to firmly believe that a Congressional resolution on such matters is a counterproductive diversion and will not foster reconciliation between Turks and Armenians and may put at risk the Turkish Jewish community and the important multilateral relationship between Turkey, Israel and the United States.

So where is your proof?

You tell me how I can be aryan as an asian. I recall saying you were Jewish and your non-answer is suggesting that is true.

 

[truethat]

Gas chambers.

Please expound

 

[kageki]

Kageki takes the name of a Japanese samurai and then comes to this forum to defend German atrocities. He is either a faux-naif or, as you say, too stupid to talk to, probably a combination of both.

I wasn't aware it was a name of a samurai.

I'm not defending any and all German atrocities. I do find the arguments against gas chambers to be compelling.

 

[TSR]

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Your response does not address the post to which you responded.

Your non-answer about the names of the Turkish Jews that committed the Armenian genocide shows that you have none, and so have no idea whether they were Jewish or not..

Your non-answer regarding definition of "Jew" by which "Jews" were responsible for the famines in the USSR shows that your afraid to admit you believe Jews to be a race, collectively evil.

And my non-answer is predicated on your non-answer: In what way is my religion (or lack thereof -- that's a hint) relevant to any of these questions? Your non-answer to this question indicates that you are looking for for a bigoted reason to dismiss the questions which are making you so uncomfortable.
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[truethat]

Kageki takes the name of a Japanese samurai and then comes to this forum to defend German atrocities. He is either a faux-naif or, as you say, too stupid to talk to, probably a combination of both.

Please do not name call. It is not fitting in a discussion and simply makes you look like you don't have an argument.

 

[truethat]

I wasn't aware it was a name of a samurai.

I'm not defending any and all German atrocities. I do find the arguments against gas chambers to be compelling.

I'm curious why this is such a big deal to you and what it has to do with the overall impression of the Holocaust.

I posted this a few pages back.

If I worked in a camp as a Nazi, and I had thousands of new people coming in each day to a camp that was plagued with a fatal disease that was spreading, I would have to consider exterminating people who were likely to die anyway.

To take in new prisoners that would just die within the week would seem like a waste of resources no?

If I had at my disposal gas pellets that could quickly and easily kill a large number of people I would use them.

So why is this so hard for you to believe?

Also here is the reply to the witness on the Donhue show with the other man who was there from Skeptic magazine.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-12.html

 

[Wroclaw]

EDIT: I see now Dogzilla did respond and I have replied in another post in this thread.

So you're also saying that lying is perfectly natural? And we got Nick Terry saying that "A witness may exaggerate but hyperbole is an inherent part of how human beings express themselves."

The folks on your side don't seem to value honesty as much as those people on my side.

Oh Jesus H. Christ...

Are you sure about that? Everybody whose testimony is not corroborated by other evidence? You will jettison? Are you sure?

Yes, I'm positive.

If that's the case, what do you consider "other evidence" in this context? What testimony do you have left?

Back up a second: I asked you questions in bolded. I will pursue this latest with you when and only when you have answered those questions or admitted that you cannot.

 

[TSR]

I do find the arguments against gas chambers to be compelling.

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Which arguments, *specifically*, do you find so compelling, as opposed to the actual evidence which contradicts your fervent need to believe?
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[kageki]

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Your response does not address the post to which you responded.

What were the names of the Turkish Jews that committed the Armenian genocide?

By what definition of "Jew" were "Jews" responsible for the famines in the USSR?

And my non-answer is predicated on your non-answer: In what way is my religion (or lack thereof -- that's a hint) relevant to any of these questions?
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What is the point in that when the ADL says it may put at risk the Turkish Jewish community?

I didn't mention famine. I just said there were some Jews involved in Russia.

To show your inherent bias and behavior with incessant accusations.

Where is that proof?

 

[truethat]

Oh Jesus H. Christ...



Yes, I'm positive.



Back up a second: I asked you questions in bolded. I will pursue this latest with you when and only when you have answered those questions or admitted that you cannot.

Can you post the questions again so we don't lose track of them. Thanks.

 

[TSR]

The folks on your side don't seem to value honesty as much as those people on my side.

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Seriously?

How many normative historians of these events have been proven liars in open court?

How many deniers have been?
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[Wroclaw]

I'm in a hurry so I'll focus on your bolded questions for now.

Oh goody!

The AR camps were delousing facilities. Don't AR camps narratives include a part about how all the Jews were "deceived" into thinking they were stopping for a delousing? Aren't there stories about Jews being told to 'raus raus' or the water will get cold"?

Fine: Tell us now which SS men have testified or made other statements to the effect that they were actually delousing camps.

I hope you're aware that you are the only person to make that claim. The standard denier claim is that these were transit camps. Where anyone was sent after these camps remains a mystery, however, since we have voluminous records of some 1.5 million Jews sent to these three camps, and then zero point zero zero records of these people ever again and no records of trains heading east from these camps.

What else could those facilities be? Treblinka, e.g., was a very tiny camp. Over 700,000 people were sent there according to German wartime records. They sure as h**l weren't murdered there because there's no evidence of that happening.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

They stopped. They got clean. They went on their merry way.

Fine. Then you won't mind proving that trainloads of Jews ever left those camps. Ever.

Please demonstrate that any room identified as a gas chamber at any camp had working showers. Any will do. I'm waiting. Note that above you identified one gas chamber as a morgue. Will you now change it to a shower?

Dachau. Majdanek. What does that prove? I'm waiting.

Your word on this is not enough and Dachau does not count because no one claims that gas chamber was ever used. You want Majdanek? Fine. Show me someone who was at Majdanek claiming the room identified as a gas chamber was actually a shower room.

 

[kageki]

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Which arguments, *specifically*, do you find so compelling, as opposed to the actual evidence which contradicts your fervent need to believe?
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The problem of disposal and the scale claimed.

Who is fervently trying to believe? You basically base your belief on whatever is considered acceptable. Being Jewish would also pose a huge bias on this topic.

 

[Wroclaw]

What is the point in that when the ADL says it may put at risk the Turkish Jewish community?

I didn't mention famine. I just said there were some Jews involved in Russia.

To show your inherent bias and behavior with incessant accusations.

Where is that proof?

Let's assume that you are correct and that there were "some Jews" involved in both the Armenian massacre and the Soviet genocides. Both countries had large Jewish populations — Salonika in Turkey (now Greece) had the largest Sephardi population in the world before WWII — so we should not find it surprising that Jews were part of both "revolutions."

Problem for you is that Jews also suffered under both the Young Turk régime and the Soviet régime.

Yet you focus on Jewish "complicity." Wonder why that is...

 

[Wroclaw]

The problem of disposal and the scale claimed.

You have not responded to Zimmerman on this point. Your stating a "problem," your getting a response, your not replying to that new material, and then you re-stating that a "problem" exists is an exercise in highlighting your dishonesty.

Who is fervently trying to believe? You basically base your belief on whatever is considered acceptable.

You base your belief on whatever casts Jews in a bad light.

Being Jewish would also pose a huge bias on this topic.

Q.e.d.

 

[truethat]

The problem of disposal and the scale claimed.

Who is fervently trying to believe? You basically base your belief on whatever is considered acceptable. Being Jewish would also pose a huge bias on this topic.

I'm not Jewish. In fact my background makes me Aryan.

Are you seriously making the argument that an Asian is better equipped to research information regarding the Holocaust....because they are not Jewish?

You've spent pages telling us how you were shocked to find what you learned in school wasn't as you understood it to be. Now you've basically done a bit of research on a revisionist site and consider yourself and expert because you repeat the things you read there?

You obviously, (and I say this not as an insult but a fact) have no idea what you are talking about. You are simply repeating sound bites again and again.

When asked to think critically you rarely respond to the question. If I may ask, what kind of education do you have?

 

[Walter Ego]

I wasn't aware it was a name of a samurai.

I'm not defending any and all German atrocities. I do find the arguments against gas chambers to be compelling.

So you are only defending the ultimate German war atrocity. Nice to know you draw the line somewhere.

 

[truethat]

I would also like Kageki and Dogzilla to explain why Germany hasn't gotten on board with the whole denial if it is indeed true?

I mean what country wouldn't want to clear their name from this? And yet?

Germany
[edit]§ 130 Public incitement
In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("incitement of the people") is a concept in German criminal law that bans the incitement of hatred against a segment of the population. It often applies in (although is not limited to) trials relating to Holocaust denial in Germany. In addition, Strafgesetzbuch § 86a outlaws various symbols of "unconstitutional organisations", such as the Swastika and the SS runes.
§ 130 Public Incitement (1985, Revised 1992, 2002, 2005)

(1) Whoever, in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace:

incites hatred against segments of the population or calls for violent or arbitrary measures against them; or
assaults the human dignity of others by insulting, maliciously maligning, or defaming segments of the population,
shall be punished with imprisonment from three months to five years.
(...)

(3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or belittles an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 6 subsection (1) of the Code of Crimes against International Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.

(4) Whoever publicly or in a meeting disturbs the public peace in a manner that assaults the human dignity of the victims by approving of, denying or rendering harmless the violent and arbitrary National Socialist rule shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (...)[23]

The definition of section 6 of the Code of Crimes against International Law referenced in the above § 130 is as follows:
§ 6 Genocide

(1) Whoever with the intent of destroying as such, in whole or in part, a national, racial, religious or ethnic group:

kills a member of the group,
causes serious bodily or mental harm to a member of the group, especially of the kind referred to in section 226 of the Criminal Code,
inflicts on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction in whole or in part,
imposes measures intended to prevent births within the group,
forcibly transfers a child of the group to another group, shall be punished with imprisonment for life. (...)[24

 

[kageki]

I'm not Jewish. In fact my background makes me Aryan.

Are you seriously making the argument that an Asian is better equipped to research information regarding the Holocaust....because they are not Jewish?

You've spent pages telling us how you were shocked to find what you learned in school wasn't as you understood it to be. Now you've basically done a bit of research on a revisionist site and consider yourself and expert because you repeat the things you read there?

You obviously, (and I say this not as an insult but a fact) have no idea what you are talking about. You are simply repeating sound bites again and again.

When asked to think critically you rarely respond to the question. If I may ask, what kind of education do you have?

I am not making any such claims. My motivation was in regards to TSR's accusations.

I have responded. You have basically been repeating yourself at this point.