Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[Hans]

Seriously, read a book.

That is against the house rules for denial. Knowledge is the enemy; blind belief in what they are told to believe in - or not to believe in, is king or more properly the Fuhrer.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The only thing your questions verify is your willful ignorance of the history you are so rabid to deny.

Which raises the perennial question, what then is their motivation?

No, in fact they were forbidden to work in most occupations, especially any that might mean exiting the ghetto.

Seriously: how many homeless people hold jobs? Especially when their cardboard box is surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards.

Following the Great Deportation of late summer and early fall 1942, Jews legally living in the ghetto needed to be attached to and working in a workshop, as I described earlier, the Werterfassung. or a work party for work outside the ghetto. Before the Great Deportation, however, work in the ghetto was a different matter, in which the large workshops did not predominate. Thousands of Jews were removed from the ghetto altogether and sent to forced labor camps, as noted earlier. Jewish workshops existed, as did workshops established by German firms--but most Jews in the ghetto were without work (many survived by selling off the last of their possessions). Some Jews were enrolled in work parties or crews called placowki; these work parties had forced-labor jobs outside the ghetto, and members were taken from the ghetto to the work sites each day in columns. The impetus for the use of Jewish labor outside the ghetto was, to some extent, the seizure of Poles and their deportation from Poland to Germany for forced labor in the war economy. The number of Jews in these forced labor teams was probably several thousand, but their importance was greater than their numbers, for members were a major source of food smuggled into the ghetto to supplement to paltry official rations for Jews. While work parties continued to be taken outside the ghetto after the Great Deportation, by far most working Jews at that time were in the major workshops of Tobbens, Schulz and others.

 

[LemmyCaution]

. . . How did they get food? The is the type missing mechanics that verifies the Holocaust myth. If they were actually there they had to be working.

The following had already been posted before Clayton got around to asking:

Before the 1942 deportations, official rations being at starvation levels, Warsaw's Jews operated large and small scale smuggling efforts, bringing in food to the ghetto from "Aryan" Warsaw to feed Jewish families.

 

[ddt]

What were they doing in 1943?

TSR already told you about the Warsaw ghetto uprising. In the end, in May 1943, Waffen SS commander Jürgen Stroop crushed the uprising. He prepared a report about this in three copies, one for Himmler, one for Krüger and one for himself, the so-called "Stroop report". In that report, he writes (English translation):

Of the total of 56,065 Jews caught, about 7,000 were exterminated within the former Ghetto in the course of the large-scale action, and 6,929 by transporting them to T.II, which means 14,000 Jews were exterminated altogether. Beyond the number of 56,065 Jews an estimated number of 5,000 to 6,000 were killed by explosions or in fires.

Where the translation says "exterminated", it plainly says "vernichtet" in German, no use of euphemisms or code-words here. And do you know what T.II is?

 

[headscratcher4]

Not true becasue, thanks to the revisionists, we know that when Nazis say words like "exterminate" they don't mean kill, they mean something else, something less than exterminate. It seems the Nazis are the masters of misunderstood misdirection.

 

[TSR]

.
And isn't it funny that, for example, they do not try to pull some of this semantic slight of hand with native speakers -- like Mr. Muchos Nombres and Unka Ernie themselves said:

4. The Revisionist claim: Official state policy towards the Jews in the Third Reich was emigration, not extermination.

4. Behauptung der Revisionisten: Die offizielle Politik des Dritten Reiches gegenüber den Juden war Emigration, nicht Ausrottung.
.

 

[Dogzilla]

Circumcision suggests they were Jewish. Do you have another theory?

The Nazis did not execute Muslims. Only the USA, UK and Commonwealth countries adopted circumcision for hygiene reasons

I'm trying to not respond until I catch up with the thread but sometimes some things just can't be ignored.....

I'm assuming you're not serious but just in case you are, you wouldn't happen to have a link to some of those high resolution photographs showing clearly whether a corpse has a circumcised or uncircumcised penis, do you?

 

[uke2se]

I'm trying to not respond until I catch up with the thread but sometimes some things just can't be ignored.....

I'm assuming you're not serious but just in case you are, you wouldn't happen to have a link to some of those high resolution photographs showing clearly whether a corpse has a circumcised or uncircumcised penis, do you?

I'm glad you specified "high resolution". You wouldn't want someone to actually bring you a photo without having a way to dismiss it, would you?

 

[MG1962]

I'm glad you specified "high resolution". You wouldn't want someone to actually bring you a photo without having a way to dismiss it, would you?

**snicker snort snort** He said penis and you totally missed it dude

 

[Clayton Moore]

Browning?

Once again the facts contradict themselves proving their idiocy.


3 million Jews (mostly Polish), whom the Nazis had forced into ghettos between 1939 and 1941.

What were those Jewish people doing during 1939 to 1941?

What were they doing in 1942?

What were they doing in 1943?

What were they doing in 1944?

And Christopher Browning is supposed to be a legit Holocaust historian?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning

Quote:
Browning has argued that the Final Solution was the result of the "cumulative radicalization" (to use Hans Mommsen's phrase) of the German state, especially when faced with the self-imposed "problem" of 3 million Jews (mostly Polish), whom the Nazis had forced into ghettos between 1939 and 1941.

http://www.warsaw-life.com/poland/warsaw-ghetto

Plans for a Jewish ghetto had in fact existed since the beginning of the Nazi occupation of Warsaw, but in October 1940 they finally began to take form. A small district South West of the Old Town, in the centre of the city, was chosen and 113,000 Poles were evacuated to make way for Warsaw's 400,000 Jews. Thirty percent of the city's population were now living in an area that constituted less than three square miles, or 2.4 % of the capital. In November that area was closed off by a formidable wall, topped with barbed wire.

Another Holocaust lie. 3 million Jewish people living in 3 square miles.

 

[Dogzilla]

I'm glad you specified "high resolution". You wouldn't want someone to actually bring you a photo without having a way to dismiss it, would you?

I do prefer to be shown a photograph that clearly shows what that photograph is suppose to show. Sorry to be so difficult.

 

[MG1962]

Another Holocaust lie. 3 million Jewish people living in 3 square miles.

So you are unaware there was more than one ghetto. Even your own quote uses the plural

 

[000063]

I do prefer to be shown a photograph that clearly shows what that photograph is suppose to show. Sorry to be so difficult.

Okay, so it's merely a preference now. Okay. I'm sure someone will be right along with the photos of corpse-penis.

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning





http://www.warsaw-life.com/poland/warsaw-ghetto



Another Holocaust lie. 3 million Jewish people living in 3 square miles.

New York's Five Boroughs at a Glance
Jurisdiction Population Land Area
Borough of County estimate for
1 July 2009 square
miles Manhattan New York 1,629,054 23
2. Brooklyn Kings 2,567,098 71
3. Queens Queens 2,306,712 109
4. The Bronx Bronx 1,397,287 42
5. Staten Island Richmond 491,730 58
City of New York 8,391,881 303

That would be like

825,688,433 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.

Even 400,000 is probably a freaking lie.

40,400,000 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.


http://intotheloop.blogspot.com/2008/12/densest-cities-in-world-overview.html

1) Manila, 41,014 people/sq. kilometer
2) Cairo, 36,618 people/sq. kilometer
3) Lagos, 20,000 + people/sq. kilometer
4) Macau, 16,521 people/ sq. kilometer
5) Seoul, 16,391 people/ sq. kilometer
6) Dhaka, 14,688 people/ sq. kilometer
7) Buenos Aires, 13,680 people/ sq. kilometer
8) Jakarta, 11,360 people/ sq. kilometer
9) Taipei, 9,835 people/ sq. kilometer
10) Santo Domingo 9,516 people/ sq. kilometer

3,000,000 = 386,100 people/ sq. kilometer

400,000 = 51,480 people/ sq. kilometer

 

[erwinl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning





http://www.warsaw-life.com/poland/warsaw-ghetto



Another Holocaust lie. 3 million Jewish people living in 3 square miles.

How do you get from 400.000 jews in the Warsaw ghetto (according to your link) to there being 3 million in them?

 

[ddt]

Plans for a Jewish ghetto had in fact existed since the beginning of the Nazi occupation of Warsaw, but in October 1940 they finally began to take form. A small district South West of the Old Town, in the centre of the city, was chosen and 113,000 Poles were evacuated to make way for Warsaw's 400,000 Jews. Thirty percent of the city's population were now living in an area that constituted less than three square miles, or 2.4 % of the capital. In November that area was closed off by a formidable wall, topped with barbed wire.

Another Holocaust lie. 3 million Jewish people living in 3 square miles.

Reading is hard, we know. Bush's "No child left behind" didn't reach everybody, it's sad.

By comparison, Manhattan NY has (2011) approx. 1.6 million people on 23 sq.m. That's about half the population density of the Warsaw ghetto. Of course, Warsaw in 1940 didn't have skyscrapers.

 

[Clayton Moore]

That would be like

825,688,433 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.

Even 400,000 is probably a freaking lie.

40,400,000 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.


http://intotheloop.blogspot.com/2008/12/densest-cities-in-world-overview.html



3,000,000 = 386,100 people/ sq. kilometer

400,000 = 51,480 people/ sq. kilometer

That would be like

825,688,433 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.

correction
101 X 3 million = 303,000,000 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.

 

[erwinl]

That would be like

825,688,433 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.

correction
101 X 3 million = 303,000,000 people living in NYC without apartment buildings.

That's nice, but what has that got to do with 400.000 jews in Warsaw getting squeezed into a small ghetto? And then somhow mutliplying that 400.000 to get 3 million?

 

[LemmyCaution]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Browning





http://www.warsaw-life.com/poland/warsaw-ghetto



Another Holocaust lie. 3 million Jewish people living in 3 square miles.

Browning wrote, in the very part you quoted, that 400,000 Jews were jammed into the Jewish residential district in Warsaw. You seem to be unable to remember what you copied and pasted seconds before you began typing. A short term memory problem like this is scary, I am sure, but it does render you unable to participate meaningfully in some activities, to take one example, recalling the things you copy and paste. So there were around 1100 ghettos, Warsaw being the largest, and its population reached over 450,000 at one point but never anywhere near your mythical 3 million. There was a great variety in the ghettos established by the Nazis, the first of which were set up in Poland in 1939; of the large ghettos of the most familiar type (think Warsaw or Lodz), most were in Poland. The recent Yad Vashem 2 volume publication The Yad Vashem Encyclopedia of the Ghettos during the Holocaust lists about 1100 entries covering Nazi-controlled Europe. If you were to consult a source like this, it would save you the embarrassment of making ignorant statements like the one you made, if indeed you also learned to read and got over this information retention problem you have on display.

One issue with you Clayton is that, since you appear to lack even a scintilla of interest in this history, it is not clear what motivates you to keep posting on it? You don't care about basic facts. You clearly haven't done any significant reading (Googling isn't the same as reading, you realize) and you display astonishing gaps -- no, chasms -- in basic knowledge of the sort even the modestly interested would possess. So what is your point in posting on these issues?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Even 400,000 is probably a freaking lie.

You seem unaware that the Germans conducted counts of the ghetto population in Warsaw. For example, in February 1940 the second such census showed a population of 393,935. The third census, taken in April that year, gave the population as 395,025. I assume that, in giving 400,000 as the ghetto's population, Prof Browning did not lie, as you groundlessly accuse him of doing, but merely rounded well-known German data for the early population of the Jewish residential district. (Engelking & Leociak, The Warsaw ghetto: a guide to the perished city, p48) Well-known data, Clayton, from the Germans. (Jewish groups also counted the ghetto population using ration cards and the like, but let's stick with well-known German data . . . )

As noted above, Clayton, your ignorance is what is astounding here, your ignorance coupled with your stubborn perseverance. It's a mystery, really, why you bother. You seem to have none of the basic information and no familiarity with the literature. Nearly every assertion you make blows up in your face. Google and a drop-in now and then on Wikipedia are not the same as learning this stuff. You obviously won't take the effort to learn even the rudiments. What motivates you? It is clearly not knowledge . . . what is your agenda?