Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

[kageki]

No, not everyone, just those they arbitrarily chose to consider "untermenschen".

And yes they did use gas chambers.

That doesn't mean murder.

Your proof is off course just testimonies.

 

[Thunder]

Kageki- do you believe that as the United States declared war on Germany, Germany had a right to declare war on the Jews of the World?

 

[kageki]

Kageki- do you believe that as the United States declared war on Germany, Germany had a right to declare war on the Jews of the World?

First of all this has nothing to do about gas chambers.

I'm not aware of Germany declaring war on the Jews of the World. They were basically defending themselves and their territory. Their goal was expulsion. Then also fighting Bolshevism which was seen as a Jewish thing. I don't see any reason to believe that the Germans wanted to hunt down every last Jew on the planet. They mainly wanted them out of their country.

 

[TSR]

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Really? The Jews did?

How many troops did they command, how were they equipped and supplied? Where did they train? Where did they get their tanks, artillery, air support?

You seem to be under the impression that there was some governing group which spoke on behalf of the Jews -- can you name it?

Answers: None, they weren't, they didn't, they didn't, and and you can't because there wasn't (are arguably *still* isn't.)

*One* editorial by *one* man published by *one* newspaper (in a country which was not even predominately Jewish) using hyperbolic language does not a credible threat make. Have got any proof that "the Jooos" even paid attention to this call for an economic boycott or that it had any appreciable effect?

Answer: No, because they didn't, and it didn't.

Do feel free to contradict any of the above by citing a real, you know, historian rather than one of your denier buddies...
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Hey, K -- you seem to have forgotten to respond to this post...
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[TSR]

First of all this has nothing to do about gas chambers.

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Nor does the post to which you're repsonding, so one has to wonder what your point is, here...
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I'm not aware of Germany declaring war on the Jews of the World. They were basically defending themselves and their territory.

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Against what? What, specifically and by name, had German, Polish, Hungarian etc., etc., done that needed defending against? What had Henio done which needed to be defended against? Richard Benguigui? I could go on all night...
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Their goal was expulsion. Then also fighting Bolshevism which was seen as a Jewish thing. I don't see any reason to believe that the Germans wanted to hunt down every last Jew on the planet. They mainly wanted them out of their country.

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Expulsion to where? If these were enemies of the State, bent on the destruction of the German Volk ,how does sending them somewhere else reduce that threat, especially since, according to you they had already declared war? Surely they could just have invaded back, right? That's what happens in war -- like the various invasions the Germans staged. You know: Poland, France, Czechoslovakia, Luxembourg -- like that.
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[kageki]

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Nor does the post to which you're repsonding, so one has to wonder what your point is, here...
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Against what? What, specifically and by name, had German, Polish, Hungarian etc., etc., done that needed defending against? What had Henio done which needed to be defended against? Richard Benguigui? I could go on all night...
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Expulsion to where? If these were enemies of the State, bent on the destruction of the German Volk ,how does sending them somewhere else reduce that threat, especially since, according to you they had already declared war? Surely they could just have invaded back, right? That's what happens in war -- like the various invasions the Germans staged. You know: Poland, France, Czechoslovakia, Luxembourg -- like that.
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So what if they invaded back? They would still be out of their lands. The countries in the past that have expelled Jews didn't think about that. They just wanted them out.

Russia invaded Poland as well. There were also disputed territories as it's a continuation from WWI.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

So what if they invaded back? They would still be out of their lands. The countries in the past that have expelled Jews didn't think about that. They just wanted them out.

Eichmann - to tie this topic back into the thread from which it was split- acknowledged that the final solution was genocide and he expressed regret that the 12 year Reich had been unsuccessful in completing the task the NSDAP operatives had set themselves regarding the extermination of Jews. Eichmann explicitly states that future generations may curse him and other nazis for failing to exterminate the surviving Jewish remnant.

 

[kageki]

Eichmann - to tie this topic back into the thread from which it was split- acknowledged that the final solution was genocide and he expressed regret that the 12 year Reich had been unsuccessful in completing the task the NSDAP operatives had set themselves regarding the extermination of Jews. Eichmann explicitly states that future generations may curse him and other nazis for failing to exterminate the surviving Jewish remnant.

What he did say was that killing wasn't originally the plan and had no idea why Hitler supposedly ordered it and was completely against killing. I don't remember the last part if you are referring to that Life interview.

If "exterminate" as in to kick out then sure. That would be consistent with what the Nazis were saying.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

What he [Eichmann] did say was ...

... getötet (Killed - if you decide to argue tense and conjugation place the verb in broader context -don't just pick the single sentence - from the Sassen tapes) and he expressed regret for not finishing that job (Killing the total number). He speculated that future generation would curse the nazis for not completing the task.


[edits:
"Exterminate" -quite clearly- as in "to Kill" -on a massive scale (millions).

- Allow me to remind you that the original thread was about what motivates Holocaust deniers. You appear to be on track for meeting some of that OP's categories. Can you frame your reply while being aware of that context as well?

- Now answer TSR's question:

Against what? What, specifically and by name, had German, Polish, Hungarian etc., etc., done that needed defending against? What had Henio done which needed to be defended against? Richard Benguigui? I could go on all night...

/edits]

 

[TSR]

If "exterminate" as in to kick out then sure.

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Excuse me, but there is not, nor has there ever been, a language on Earth where "exterminate" means "to kick out."

Figured out what happened to those ~80k sent to Majdanek, or the ~200k sent to Sobibor yet?
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[kageki]

... getötet (Killed - if you decide to argue tense and conjugation place the verb in broader context -don't just pick the single sentence - from the Sassen tapes) and he expressed regret for not finishing that job (Killing the total number). He speculated that future generation would curse the nazis for not completing the task.


[edits:
"Exterminate" -quite clearly- as in "to Kill" -on a massive scale (millions).

- Allow me to remind you that the original thread was about what motivates Holocaust deniers. You appear to be on track for meeting some of that OP's categories. Can you frame your reply while being aware of that context as well?

- Now answer TSR's question:

/edits]

Rosenberg explained it. I suppose both sentiments were there as in explusion and killings. Eichmann did still explain that it wasn't meant to be extinction. Ultimately the goal still was to remove them from their territory.

I still don't understand these emotional pleas. I have stated multiple times now that it is unfortunate that innocent people have to be caught up. Where is your bleeding heart for everyone else then? Jews were seen as parasitic to society and not doing manual labor like farming. Outright murder is still deplorable, but that still leaves the question of gas chambers and the death toll.

The Germans had made a comparison to the US and Australia. Even Israel uses the US as an example as their justification. I don't condone murder regardless, but certainly there is some reconciliation to be had.

 

[Chaos]

Rosenberg explained it. I suppose both sentiments were there as in explusion and killings. Eichmann did still explain that it wasn't meant to be extinction. Ultimately the goal still was to remove them from their territory.

I still don't understand these emotional pleas. I have stated multiple times now that it is unfortunate that innocent people have to be caught up. Where is your bleeding heart for everyone else then? Jews were seen as parasitic to society and not doing manual labor like farming. Outright murder is still deplorable, but that still leaves the question of gas chambers and the death toll.

The Germans had made a comparison to the US and Australia. Even Israel uses the US as an example as their justification. I don't condone murder regardless, but certainly there is some reconciliation to be had.

Reconciliation? While denier scum still tries to justify what happened?

The Jews were innocent. None of or your idiotic racist anti-semitic crap can change that. The Nazis murdered millions of innocent people based on the anti-semitic delusions which you share to the fullest.

 

[kageki]

Reconciliation? While denier scum still tries to justify what happened?

The Jews were innocent. None of or your idiotic racist anti-semitic crap can change that. The Nazis murdered millions of innocent people based on the anti-semitic delusions which you share to the fullest.

http://www.holocaust.com.au/mm/i_australia.htm

Bruce wanted Australians to remain "essentially and basically a British (and white) people". In general, the Australian community supported this ideal and favoured policies which prevented alien immigrants from competing for (white) 'Australian' jobs.

That means Jews weren't welcome. You can't also blame just Germans either.

You have similar sentiments in the US today with illegal Mexican immigrants and the existing black communities. It seems like white people want to kick them out.

 

[abaddon]

http://www.holocaust.com.au/mm/i_australia.htm


That means Jews weren't welcome. You can't also blame just Germans either.

You have similar sentiments in the US today with illegal Mexican immigrants and the existing black communities. It seems like white people want to kick them out.

Except the Australians didn't exterminate them, and the Nazis did.

Is that just a slight difference, or a huge difference?

 

[Chaos]

http://www.holocaust.com.au/mm/i_australia.htm


That means Jews weren't welcome. You can't also blame just Germans either.

You have similar sentiments in the US today with illegal Mexican immigrants and the existing black communities. It seems like white people want to kick them out.

Stop changing the subject. The Nazis murdered millions of innocent people based on racist delusion. No amount of irrelevant random stuff you dredge up can change that.

 

[kageki]

Except the Australians didn't exterminate them, and the Nazis did.

Is that just a slight difference, or a huge difference?

There is also a big difference in if they used gas chambers or not.

Thousands of people gassed and cremated in a day? Ivan Lagace basically laughed at these claims.

 

[dafydd]

Why don't you answer the God-damned question?

Because the Master Race ask ze kvestions.

 

[Wroclaw]

There is also a big difference in if they used gas chambers or not.

Thousands of people gassed and cremated in a day? Ivan Lagace basically laughed at these claims.

Did Ivan Lagace ever cremate more than one body at a time?

 

[truethat]

http://www.codoh.com/butz/di/intro.html


My guess for the camps would be for the duration of the war then perhaps go back to the ghetto system or more deportations. I also think there has been a lot of exaggerations of the conditions.

Some countries resisted, but others were willing like Hungary. As Eichmann explained that the attitudes toward the east were generally shared as in places like Poland, Hungary, Ukraine and Romania. Nazis were still interested in expelling them out of their political sphere so I guess that also meant Denmark. "No one wanting them" was established at the Evian conference.

You should also look into the discussion about the capacity of the crematoriums.

Your lack of logic and comprehension of your own statements is startling to say the least.

Your argument is that "no one wanted them" and that the camps were designed for "deportation."

Deportation WHERE? You just said no one wanted them. Do you have documents that show where they were intending to deport them?

In addition I have repeatedly stated that I will take "gassing" and "crematoriums" off the table. You should also look into the capacity of giant pits of bodies that had been executed.

 

[TSR]

I have stated multiple times now that it is unfortunate that innocent people have to be caught up.

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Except for the teeny tiny fact that they weren't "caught up."


They were intentionally sought out and rounded up, and either shot in the head (that was more than half of the Holocaust death toll, you know) and left in mass graves, or sent to camps from which they never emerged, for whatever reason.

If I put you in a one foot tall cage right at the edge of the water at low tide, and left you there to wait for high tide -- am I responsible for your death?

Answer, since you won't: yes, yes I am. Let me type it slowly for you:

I f
I
r e m o v e
y o u
f r o m
y o u r
h o m e
w h e r e
y o u
a r e
d o i n g
n o
h a r m
a n d
s e n d
y o u
t o
a
c a m p
w h e r e
I
* k n o w *
t h e
c o n d i t i o n s
a r e
s u c h
t h a t
y o u
w i l l
d i e ,
i t
d o e s n ' t
m a t t e r
t h e
e x a c t
n a t u r e
o f
t h a t
d e a t h .

Unless you can account for all of these people (let's start with Henio) then the rest doesn't change any of the important facts. 5.1 million killed solely because they were born to the wrong parents.
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