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Merged General Holocaust denial discussion thread

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Thats just a bunch of hand-waving pseudo science from a couple of people who have no qualifications in what they are trying to discuss: a lawyer, an auditor and a part-time English lecturer.

I understand that Sergey Romanov does CAD for a living.

And you are?

As I said already, the physical evidence quite close at hand shows no indication of a water table at a much deeper depth.

You can say it as much as you want; it won't make it true.

Krege's scans went down to 6 or 7 meters I believe, and showed nothing to indicate a water table - or mass earth disturbances either for that matter.

Krege is a liar. If he weren't, he'd have published his work.

I have testimony from someone who claimed to have helped construct the camp and it is very clear that a bore well was sunk - to quite a number of meters deep - and a hand pump was used.

And I have Superman here in my apartment.

I don't care what someone claimed to you.

So your witness is a lie-witness, on the plus side for Team Insanity there is no public health considerations to drinking water from burying 700 000 corpses 50 meters away.

You are ALMOST not worth engaging.
 
You are so hopelessly confused there is little point in discussing these issues with you.

This is where you usually go when you've lost the argument.

The 1.5% of famine victims being Jewish refers to their share of the entire death toll, it does not mean that 1.5% of Jews died.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

If you take seriously the claims that 10 million people died in the famine (which I don't) then the death rate of Ukrainians was 30% overall. If you take a figure of 5 million (my suspicion is that is likely to be too high also - but I wouldn't argue the point) then you are looking at a death-rate of approx 15%

OK.

But I am not sure that you have any point but are either hopeless confused or trying to burying the issue under meaningless waffle.

Let's do this easy, OK?

The percentage of the total deaths due to the Holodomor who were Jews was 1.5%. We agree on that.

I believe we agree that when the Holodomor hit my wife's grandmother's town, where no non-Jews lived, that the percentage of Jews among those particular famine victims would be 100%.

We also agree that a town that had no Jews in it and all Ukrainians would have had a Ukrainian death toll of 100%.

With me so far?

In some towns, there were both Jewish and Ukrainian people living together. In some of those towns, the percentage of people who died who were Jewish was 10%.

That was my point.

Need some pretty pictures?
 
Perhaps he's talking about the fact that the grilles were used in forensic testing?

Or maybe the previous document on the same page, which discusses how the Krema buildings would be only temporary? Why would they plan temporary buildings? Huh?

Gee, two big problems on that same page. How sad for you.

Tell me something, Bunny: Why on earth would the Germans use such a large room for delousing when, clearly, much higher concentrations of HCN are necessary to kill lice?

Sorry, I know you hate talking about chemistry...

So much confusion.....
Where to start - as you are probably aware I am a Krema denier. Hence I do not think the sites known as Krema II or III were actually crematoria, rather most likely bakeries. I believe I know the site of the actual crematorium at Birkenau (click my signature to find out), but I am unsure of the dimensions of any morgue and/or fumigation chamber attached. I believe that around 30 m2 might cover both these features - which does not seem excessive over-engineering. Hopefully that answers some of your queries. There is no reason why these facilities could not be tested for cyanide and why they would not come up positive

As for your other question is to why the letter called for provisional installations. Just as a point of curiosity the letter appears to be mistranslating Decke as floors, when I believe they are ceilings.

The easiest way to forge correspondence is to take a genuine correspondence and do the smallest alterations to make it fit your narrative.

There is a building project list for Birkenau that includes a BauWerk # for a "provisional bakery" and then another BauWerk # for an extension. Originally these BW numbers referred to the buildings we today know as Krema II and III.
It has been attempted to displace this bakery to the main camp. Cf.
auschwitzerweiterung.jpg


However, this bakery seems not only to have been inspected by Himmler in July 1942, it was also very far from provisional - rather sturdy permanent and monumental are the terms that spring to mind.

Hence, in order to answer your question, the letter refers to provisional facilities because the original letter that was its model was referring to "provisional bakeries". In other words a long-term future for Birkenau and its bakeries was not envisaged.

Thank you for pointing that letter out to me, BTW. Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings.....
 
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I understand that Sergey Romanov does CAD for a living.

And you are?



You can say it as much as you want; it won't make it true.



Krege is a liar. If he weren't, he'd have published his work.



And I have Superman here in my apartment.

I don't care what someone claimed to you.



You are ALMOST not worth engaging.

Robert Levi was his name

. Mit dieser Bohrkolonne habe ich in monatelanger Arbeit ein Wasserloch gebohrt. Soweit ich mich noch erinnern kann, stiessen wir nach etwa 50 Metern auf wasser. Es musste aber noch tiefer gebohrt werden und zwar bis zu 70 Meter, weil in dem Lager viel Wasser gebraucht wurde

So between 50 to 70 meters deep. Memory of exact numbers can be unreliable but surely we can assume that it is far below any depth of possible mass graves.

So Oscar is a liar, but at least your public health worries are over.
 
. . . So Oscar is a liar . . .
I think that this is putting it mildly. Strawczynski was an expert fabricator, employed by the Moscow Documents Forgery Factory, Malkinia Division, Wells and Water Tables Section, working in tandem with many others, experts in hydrology, Soviet police agents, politruks, and futurists (Strawczynski himself was a Concocter and Mythologizer, not a forger) to create an elaborate hoax, designed to trip up future historians and commemoration committees, around wells at supposed death camps which, thanks to the dogged pursuit of the truth and the expose of the "Lying Well" by bunny, we now know never existed except in the manuscripts and false claims of the Red documents workers.
 
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Says the man who has never tried to keep a fire burning with fresh wood. You can't compare the environment of a holocaust burning pit with a forest fire. And even a forest fire isn't going spread very far if the only fuel is living trees or even fresh cut wood. Even eucalyptus needs to be dry.
Must explain why fire-starting guides describe burning green wood as "a pretty simple process" and warn homeowners not to use fresh wood in fireplaces on account on the creosote deposits it leaves when burnt. This is another old gambit thoroughly debunked time and again. Even bunny is running on empty at this point. Look at the lot of them: Wiesel, wells, fresh wood, lie-witnesses: Can the flues be far behind? Will bunny ever get to OSR 24, you wait til you see his case on that, many months in the making it seems.
 
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Must explain why fire-starting guides describe burning green wood as "a pretty simple process" and warn homeowners not to use fresh wood in fireplaces on account on the creosote deposits it leaves when burnt. This is another old gambit thoroughly debunked time and again. Even bunny is running on empty at this point. Look at the lot of them: Wiesel, wells, fresh wood, lie-witnesses: Can the flues be far behind? Will bunny ever get to OSR 24, you wait til you see his case on that, many months in the making it seems.

Good things come to those who wait Mr Ford. At present I am transcribing an affidavit of Anton Kaindl.

I put this over at RODOH, unfortunately since you have me on ignore over there, you will be blissfully unaware of it.

I repost here, with its drinking skulls, its bats, its laughing dwarfs and silent giants and request your comment

MURDER FACTORY TAKEN BY YANKS
20 000 Persons Believed Systematically Slain by Nazis
Limburg, Germany, Apr. 10 (AP)
American troops have discovered a German "murder factory," rivalling any house of horror dreamed up by fiction writers, where it is estimated 20,000 persons viewed by the Nazis as "undesirables," were systematically slain.
Located in an insane asylum near Limburg, the terror-filled establishment was in charge of a tall, scar-faced 70 year old Nazi surgeon, assisted by a 45 year old chief woman's nurse and middle-aged chief warden, allied officers said. On the staff were SS (elite guard) officers from Berlin.
Tales told by German residents of the village of Hadamar, four miles north of Limburg, led US First army officers Lt. George Walker of Deshler, O., and Capt. Alton H. Jung of San Antonio, Tex. to question officials int he village and resulted in locating the asylum.
May. Harvey M. Coverly, Sausalito, Calif., ordered the arrest of the three in charge of the "factory," said by the officers to be one of six set up by the Nazis inside Germany to dispose scientifically of unruly slave labourers or those who had outlive their usefulness.
German civil authorities estimated 15,000 victims were gassed and cremated and another 5,000 killed by drugs and poison and buried in communal graves.
The stench of burning bodies caused Hadamar residents to complain, and the bishop of Muenster lodged protests with the asylum officials. That caused the Nazis to switch from gas to hypodermic injections and from cremation to mas burial.
The slayings were described as "mercy killings" authorized by a 1939 Nazi statute.
Two investigators, Capt. Brinkley Hamilton, a British officer attached to an American infantry division, and Lt. W.R. Johnson, Loveland, Colo., told a macabre story of death and torture and ghoulish feasts by drunken executioners in the asylum, were 300 crazed inmates were permitted to run free in underground dungeons.
"Nobody would believe it," said Johnson. "It had underground chambers with dripping water, bats flying around and little crazy men who jumped out at you at every step."
Of the Nazi surgeon in charge, Johnson said: "I never saw a tougher looking man in my life."
The job of the chief nurse, he added, "was to put the death needle into women patients. She was about six feet tall, built like a football player and as ugly as a witch."
The head keeper, "a mousey-looking middle-aged man who had been promoted from driving victims to the asylum to the actual job of doing away with them" gave the officers the first indication of how the asylum operated, Johnson declared.
"He told us the asylum never held more than 500 patients and show us that there were only 481 graves in the cemetery. There were fresh empty graves and when we asked him about them he said 'we always keep three graves ahead."
The officers learned that from six to 20 bodies were dumped into each grave.
Captain Hamilton, a veteran of 20 years at London's Bow street police station, said that one one [sic] day 500 Russians were taken into the asylum and not one came out alive.
"When we first walked thru the asylum the insane inmates, laughing and screaming, followed us around in packs." Hamilton added. "There were dwarfs and stupid giants, but all seemed harmless. Only the sane people there were killed."
He said that each morning the surgeon director, the head keeper and the nurse conferred on who would be killed that day.
"One assistant said the doctor was regarded as a kind man because if one of the victims fought against taking the hypo needle the surgeon would not let the attendants beat him into submission," Hamilton recounted. "He just let the man go without food until he was too weak to object."
The gas chambers and crematorium were operated by SS men from Berlin, the investigators added.
After their 10,000th killing the SS men had a drinking orgy." Hamilton said. "They cleaned out the skulls of some of their victims and used them as drinking cups. Townspeople and former employees at the asylum testified to this."
He said some of the victims were "young children who were half Jews."
Most of the victims appeared to be Russian men and women workers who couldn't stand the strain of hard work and little food, the officers said. Many Poles and some Dutch were killed, but there was no evidence to prove that Belgian or French were slain.
The surgeon, confronted by evidence and testimony on operations of the murder factory, was quoted by Captain Hamilton as saying: "I have always been a doctor of honor."

You know how highly I value your opinion.
 
I am shocked that there would be one iota of exaggeration in such wartime accounts, absolutely stunned. I will be reconsidering all my views on these matters. The existence of iotas of exaggeration surely means that nothing untoward happened at all.
 
What for me is interesting is that there was apparently a largish prison or internment camp in Hadamar and one of the prisoners was an American journalist who had been caught in North Africa.

Upon his release on 1 April he immediately penned a series of articles that include a rich mine of quotations from "Ordinary Germans" resident of Hadamar village. Not one of which mentioned the death factory in their midst.

Rather unusual for a newspaperman to allow the army to scoop him so comprehensively.....
 
What for me is interesting is that there was apparently a largish prison or internment camp in Hadamar and one of the prisoners was an American journalist who had been caught in North Africa.

Upon his release on 1 April he immediately penned a series of articles that include a rich mine of quotations from "Ordinary Germans" resident of Hadamar village. Not one of which mentioned the death factory in their midst.

Rather unusual for a newspaperman to allow the army to scoop him so comprehensively.....
It has never been known for the questions asked by a reporter (or pollster or whatever) to have the slightest impact on responses, so I again throw up my hands in surrender. Your special treatment of OSR 24 will nail the final nail in the holocoffin I am sure.
 
Is it just me, or does he go for the bakery argument when he's clearly losing?
 
Good things come to those who wait Mr Ford. At present I am transcribing an affidavit of Anton Kaindl.

I put this over at RODOH, unfortunately since you have me on ignore over there, you will be blissfully unaware of it.

I repost here, with its drinking skulls, its bats, its laughing dwarfs and silent giants and request your comment



You know how highly I value your opinion.


Where do you find these articles? This sounds like the plot of one of those Nazi sexploitation films from the 1970s. And what's up with the drinking orgy after killing the ten thousandth victim? At Treblinka they had to kill a million Jews before they got to have their orgy.
 
So much confusion.....
Where to start - as you are probably aware I am a Krema denier. Hence I do not think the sites known as Krema II or III were actually crematoria, rather most likely bakeries. I believe I know the site of the actual crematorium at Birkenau (click my signature to find out), but I am unsure of the dimensions of any morgue and/or fumigation chamber attached. I believe that around 30 m2 might cover both these features - which does not seem excessive over-engineering. Hopefully that answers some of your queries. There is no reason why these facilities could not be tested for cyanide and why they would not come up positive

As for your other question is to why the letter called for provisional installations. Just as a point of curiosity the letter appears to be mistranslating Decke as floors, when I believe they are ceilings.

The easiest way to forge correspondence is to take a genuine correspondence and do the smallest alterations to make it fit your narrative.

There is a building project list for Birkenau that includes a BauWerk # for a "provisional bakery" and then another BauWerk # for an extension. Originally these BW numbers referred to the buildings we today know as Krema II and III.
It has been attempted to displace this bakery to the main camp. Cf.
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3639/auschwitzerweiterung.jpg

However, this bakery seems not only to have been inspected by Himmler in July 1942, it was also very far from provisional - rather sturdy permanent and monumental are the terms that spring to mind.

Hence, in order to answer your question, the letter refers to provisional facilities because the original letter that was its model was referring to "provisional bakeries". In other words a long-term future for Birkenau and its bakeries was not envisaged.

Thank you for pointing that letter out to me, BTW. Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings.....

Once you get the highlighted stuff sorted out, you should have the beginings of an argument
 
Once you get the highlighted stuff sorted out, you should have the beginings of an argument

MG1962, it may have escaped my attention, but have you apologised for falsely accusing me of fabricating quotes regarding pre-Treblinka II reports of Treblinka II and withdrawn all your wide accusations about the non-existence of Yad Vashem Studies?

Perhaps now would be a good time to man up?
 
MG1962, it may have escaped my attention, but have you apologised for falsely accusing me of fabricating quotes regarding pre-Treblinka II reports of Treblinka II and withdrawn all your wide accusations about the non-existence of Yad Vashem Studies?

Perhaps now would be a good time to man up?

I am sorry - I thought we discussed this. You made up the story and I caught you out with the original diary entries that YOU claimed were from Treblinka - As I showed clearly were not
 
I am sorry - I thought we discussed this. You made up the story and I caught you out with the original diary entries that YOU claimed were from Treblinka - As I showed clearly were not

If only ordinary, decent, hard-working people (working families in Australian speak) could see just how dishonest, cynical and hypocritical the online community of Holocaust spruikers are, they would be shocked, revolted and sickened to their very core.

At least Wroclaw goes through the motions of pretending to believe what he says, you don't even bother.
 
If only ordinary, decent, hard-working people (working families in Australian speak) could see just how dishonest, cynical and hypocritical the online community of Holocaust spruikers are, they would be shocked, revolted and sickened to their very core.

At least Wroclaw goes through the motions of pretending to believe what he says, you don't even bother.

Funny how quick you moved on. Still cant beat the diary can you. Primary source, no manipulation, no mention of Trebinka.

And dont try and claim some Australian affinity - you dont deserve it. Australia has more than had enough of pond scum. It is why the laws that exist...do
 
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