General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Border Reiver]

Then why were the Nazis presented as buffoons, in any setting, instead of vicious killers?

A. Not all Germans were Nazis (and in Hogan's Heroes the Gestapo were often objects of fear anyways);
B. Not all Nazis were Germans; and
C. Not all popular entertainment set in particular historical periods is 100% accurate. For example Captain America is not a realistic depiction of WWII spec ops, Robin Hood is not a documentary about 13th century England, and The Untouchables is not a good way to learn about the Prohibition Era.

 

[A'isha]

Then why were the Nazis presented as buffoons, in any setting, instead of vicious killers?

Loss Leader already told you why, in post 6911.

"Mel Brooks: By using the medium of comedy, we can try to rob Hitler of his posthumous power and myths."

 

[Dcdrac]

Let's see

Schindler's List
Downfall
Come and See
Secret Army
Kessler

All films and TV shows none of them showing Nazis as buffons.

 

[000063]

Then why were the Nazis presented as buffoons, in any setting, instead of vicious killers?

Did you miss my post about Mel Brooks? Here, let me quote a particularly salient portion.

[...]People joke about a lot of things. Rape, murder, war, loss of limbs, disease, even other attempted genocides and ethnic cleansing. That doesn't mean that they didn't happen. [...]

Also, joking about something can be used as a way to reduce its impact, to deaden the blow. And if you can imagine, for the sake of argument, that millions of people were actually murdered by the Nazis, then I think we can both agree that such a blow would need softening.

What power do you think the Jews had, to actually enforce such mores? After and during WWI, they were displaced and uncoordinated. And how would they stop other Jews, like Brooks, mocking Nazis?

Also, if I check your old posts, will I find any that have you talking about how Germany restricts what'll be said about the Holocaust?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Schindler's List
Downfall
Come and See
Secret Army
Kessler

All films and TV shows none of them showing Nazis as buffons.

One of the most amazing films about Nazi brutality is "Come & See", a Russian film about the Nazi occupation of Belarus.

Here is its trailer (2 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Ro0SZf438


Here is a 4 minute sequence on the destruction of a Belorussian village and the execution of the old and weak villagers.
(This is pretty "full on" and may be a bit shocking)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaheUmowPDk

 

[Mycroft]

Then why were the Nazis presented as buffoons, in any setting, instead of vicious killers?

How can this be a serious question? When has a loser ever not been mocked by the victor? When has a political view, especially a losing political view, ever not been lampooned?

 

[dafydd]

Hitler is sometimes a figure of fun so that proves that the Holocaust didn't happen? How does that work?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

A preliminary report into the 2013 forensic investigation of Treblinka includes photos. A Treblinka eyewitness, Abraham Krzepicki described the floor tiles of the old gas chamber.

"It looked like a regular shower room with all the accouterments of a public bathhouse. The walls of the room were covered with small, white tiles. It was very fine, clean work. The floor was covered with orange terra cotta tiles. Nickel plated metal faucets were set into the ceiling"

We can now actually look at the these tiles as recovered by the the 2013 excavation. I think this is "pretty amazing". We are now directly looking at part of a Treblinka gas chamber. Good on that team for their good efforts.

 

[Mondial]

A preliminary report into the 2013 forensic investigation of Treblinka includes photos. A Treblinka eyewitness, Abraham Krzepicki described the floor tiles of the old gas chamber.

"It looked like a regular shower room with all the accouterments of a public bathhouse. The walls of the room were covered with small, white tiles. It was very fine, clean work. The floor was covered with orange terra cotta tiles. Nickel plated metal faucets were set into the ceiling"

We can now actually look at the these tiles as recovered by the the 2013 excavation. I think this is "pretty amazing". We are now directly looking at part of a Treblinka gas chamber. Good on that team for their good efforts.

If you are referring to the Caroline Sturdy Colls findings CODOH (Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust - http://codoh.com ) has a sceptical thread on this subject - http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8259&start=30 I find it amazing that people take holocaust propaganda claims at face value especially here which is supposed to be a skeptics forum.

 

[EtienneSC]

Testimony of transits through Treblinka

There is video testimony from 30 people, many of whom were transited through Treblinka (mostly to Lublin, Maijdanek, Budzyn or Auschwitz) taken from the USC Foundation collection here. This is important new evidence for revisionism and should be of interest to anyone interested in the transit camp hypothesis. One of the main arguments against the transit camp hypothesis is the lack of evidence about the destination of the deportees and in particular of their presence further east. As each witness describes leaving the camp in company with trainloads of other people, this testimony goes some way to fill in a gap in the revisionist case.

Some of the witnesses confirm Matthew Ellard's point about there being showers in the camp, but the purpose of the showers is indicated as the prevention of infection by destroying lice and other hosts. It is helpful that the interviewers attempt to distinguish what was seen by the witnesses from their beliefs or later interpretations.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

There is video testimony from 30 people, many of whom were transited through Treblinka (mostly to Lublin, Maijdanek, Budzyn or Auschwitz) taken from the USC Foundation collection

Thankfully I have just destroyed this video on another forum. Let us all enjoy the highlights.

Firstly the eyewitness video footage is footage stolen from Speilberg's documentary "Shoa" and has been edited to show propaganda. As well as stealing the footage Eric Hunt and Frederick Berg stole the soundtrack music as well. This is not good news for them as they kindly added their names to the credits. I'll let the USA copyright protection agencies sort that out.

A film by "Eric Hunt" ( A well known holocaust denier). Produced by "Frederick Berg and Anonymous Revisionist" (Well know holocaust deniers)
A "Twentieth Century Hoax Production (An Anglo-American-Jewish -Soviet Production)"

So what do these thieves offer as their citations.
Gaschamberhoax.com ( Frederick Berg website)
Nazigassing.com ( Frederick Berg website)
CODOH.com ( The holocaust deniers forum)
VHO.com ( A defunct holocaust denial website)

Well, no surprises there....So lets look at their first claims in the video
(2.12)
It is the greatest hoax of the 20th Century and you were brainwashed to believe in it since the day you were born" "Six million Jews falsely claim to have been murdered mostly in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms"
How do six million dead people make any claim at all?

(2.20)
There is no evidence of Jewish Gassing deaths be it cyanide or carbon monoxide poisoning."
There is tons of evidence for this including eyewitnesses, documents and now Dr Colls team is showing us photos of the gas chamber floors. I will let another member destroy this claim in detail


(2.25)
and no mass grave containing the bodies of millions of gassed Jews"
(3.56)
"According to the official story ...then the corpses were dug back up and set on fire"
This is hilarious. Berg & Hunt both know the bodies were cremated and therefore demand to see "full graves full of uncremated dead bodies" as their only acceptable evidence. This is "how low" these people go.


(3.22)
and there has been no full scale archaeological excavation of the site"
Well there have been two. The Polish investigation in 1945 and Dr Colls team in 2013 & 2014. In fact Dr Colls and Justice Lukaszkiewicz are not discussed anywhere in the video.

(3.45)
"There is a lack of documentation about the camp"
I will tell that to SS Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle and ask if he can send a copy of his telegram to Hunt and Berg. I will let other members list all the other documentary evidence.

"Diesel Engines are not an efficient method of killing people"
The video shows one man in a modern German diesel car running a hose through the window as "evidence". It doesn't show 400 people in small airtight room being gassed with a tank engine tweaked to produce high levels of carbon monoxide replacing the reducing air, being breathed by 400 people before they died. They also asphyxiated.

"Because the man and women were separated they assumed that the others were gassed" They didn't know that then. They found out when they walked into the gas chamber themselves. If they had lived they would have heard Stangl & Franz, the camp commanders, confess that Treblinka was an extermination camp.

""The Jews were given real showers at Treblinka to keep them alive before they traveled on" This is hilarious. The idiot agrees that there were bathhouses ( gas chambers) at Treblinka but never thought to ask where the water to shower 4,000 people a day came from. Treblinka had one camp well.


(34.04)
"There is more evidence that the holocaust is a hoax"
This is just funny. The voice over narrator says one of the Jewish eyewitnesses is obviously a paid stooge because he went on to become an actor in the 1950s. That's their evidence. They then show a minute of him acting in a Korean war film. Uh Huh....

(29.38)
As this video is from Berg, the voice over person spends time claiming that the bodies should all be bright pink and no one noticed. He does not mention that the bodies putrefy and turn blue black and that the German commanding officer did notice this. "I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of black-blue corpses"



Summing up
This is poorly produced propaganda. The producers are unaware of the 1945 Polish forensic investigation and the 2013 & 2014 English forensic investigation that both found human remains and the empty mass graves. The producer do not mention any real evidence at all. They fail to mention.
*The confessions by both camp commanding officers and their men
* The forensic evidence of human ash covering 20,000,000 square metres photographed by the Polish investigation
* The mass burial pits discovered and excavated in 1945
* Eyewitness testimony by both Germans, Poles and Jews as to the mass executions.
* Documentation,
* The archeological investigation of Colls and Justice Lukaszkiewicz
* Train movement logs from Treblinka and so on.

This is important new evidence for revisionism and should be of interest to anyone interested in the transit camp hypothesis.

Yes. It seems that Berg & Hunt are now hiding as much evidence as they can in their propaganda videos and that "holocaust denier revisionists" have just become a mere religious cult. Why do you EtienneSC, a holocaust denier, think they left out all the evidence of confessions, documents, 20,000 square metres if human ash, excavated empty mass graves and so on. Please explain in detail and how you deal with this evidence?

but the purpose of the showers is indicated as the prevention of infection by destroying lice and other hosts.

Can you, EtienneSC, a holocaust denier, explain how 4,000 people a day had a shower when Treblinka had one small camp well? Please explain your view how this happened, in extreme detail.

"since there was a water shortage at Treblinka, and only the Germans and the guards were allowed to use it."

 

[EtienneSC]

There is video testimony from 30 people, many of whom were transited through Treblinka (mostly to Lublin, Maijdanek, Budzyn or Auschwitz) taken from the USC Foundation collection here.

In reply to my own post, I draw your attention to the interesting debate on this evidence on the youtube commentary section. One limitation is that the transports appear to be from East to West (Lublin is South East from Treblinka, but far to the west of Minsk). It does greatly strengthen the transit camp theory in general though, as transit procedures and installations are clearly described. The testimony was in English: you might expect survivors of any transports the other way to speak Russian, or perhaps Hebrew or Yiddish, given the origin and likely destination. I was not clear if the makers of the film would have access to such testimony. Some of the guardians of orthodoxy have put obstacles in the way of revisionist researchers - which tells its own story about their own real beliefs. There is also an absence of testimony from Sobibor, Belzec & Chelmno, though supposedly this exists and will be provided in an expanded version of the video.

 

[Nick Terry]

There is video testimony from 30 people, many of whom were transited through Treblinka (mostly to Lublin, Maijdanek, Budzyn or Auschwitz) taken from the USC Foundation collection here. This is important new evidence for revisionism and should be of interest to anyone interested in the transit camp hypothesis. One of the main arguments against the transit camp hypothesis is the lack of evidence about the destination of the deportees and in particular of their presence further east. As each witness describes leaving the camp in company with trainloads of other people, this testimony goes some way to fill in a gap in the revisionist case.

Some of the witnesses confirm Matthew Ellard's point about there being showers in the camp, but the purpose of the showers is indicated as the prevention of infection by destroying lice and other hosts. It is helpful that the interviewers attempt to distinguish what was seen by the witnesses from their beliefs or later interpretations.

The video has already been criticised here by Matthew Ellard and others. It seems to be yet another case of deniers cherrypicking known exceptions to the norm while ignoring context and chronology.

I say 'seems' because video is still not an acceptable scholarly medium in historiography, therefore it won't get watched by many JREFers already bored out of their minds with endless argumentum ad YouTubium video offerings from assorted cranks, woos and whooping loons.

The makers of the video are Eric Hunt, someone with self-admitted psychiatric problems, and Friedrich Paul Berg, someone who probably should admit his own psychiatric problems.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

In reply to my own post, I draw your attention to the interesting debate on this evidence on the youtube commentary section.

No. I draw your attention to the propaganda video that you just posted.

1) Did you watch this video yourself before posting it? Yes/ No?

2) Eric Hunt ( or the narrator) in this video makes two conflicting statements and then demands to see mass graves with bodies as evidence.

"there are no mass graves containing the remains of almost a million Jews alleged to be buried here."

"According to the official story ...the corpses were dug back up and set on fire"

If the official story ( which is correct) is that the bodies from Treblinka were mostly cremated, Do you think the Eric Hunt is correct in demanding evidence of mass burial pits full of bodies? Yes/ No?

3) The propaganda video did not mention the confessions of the camp commanding officers, The 2013 & 2014 "Colls" investigation or the 1945 "Lukaszkiewicz" investigation, the empty mass graves found, the eyewitnesses, nor the 20,000 square metres of human ash found at Treblinka.

Do you think this propaganda video left out important evidence? Yes/ No?

 

[EtienneSC]

The video has already been criticised here by Matthew Ellard and others.

Matthew has responded to the whole video, generally outlining the arguments which we are all familiar with. Incidentally, Andy Mathis also makes some pertinent points in the commentary section in the youtube page. I'd like to focus on what is new (to me at least), namely the mutually corroborating witness testimony of transits through Treblinka.

It seems to be yet another case of deniers cherrypicking known exceptions to the norm while ignoring context and chronology.

Perhaps (see my own reply, above), though apparently it is not so much cherrypicking the testimony as selecting from a small initial sample as it takes time to listen to it all. One witness can produce hours of testimony and there are 10,000s of witnesses, whereas an eight hour day 5 days a week would only amount to about 2,000 man-hours. The transits mentioned are from East to West (Minsk to Treblinka), then back South East to Lublin/Maijdanek, or apparently to Budzyn, which is further West again (north of Posen, according to google maps).

I say 'seems' because video is still not an acceptable scholarly medium in historiography, therefore it won't get watched by many JREFers already bored out of their minds with endless argumentum ad YouTubium video offerings from assorted cranks, woos and whooping loons.

Historiography needs to adapt to enable use of the video testimony of the USC Shoah Foundation. There are accepted ways of citing video material in scholarly articles, but it obviously better to choose a medium that shows the evidence cited so the viewer can evaluate the content, body language, etc directly.

The makers of the video are Eric Hunt, someone with self-admitted psychiatric problems, and Friedrich Paul Berg, someone who probably should admit his own psychiatric problems.

Ad hominem. Eric Hunt is a young(ish) man at odds with his society who seems to be maturing in a fairly normal way. Both authors have held down professional jobs (language teacher, engineer).

 

[EtienneSC]

Thankfully I have just destroyed this video on another forum. Let us all enjoy the highlights.

Meaning here. I will go through most of these points, though in several cases the answers, where there are any, are in Mattogno et al's Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp and The Extermination Camps of Aktion Reinhardt. What is new in the video - and the reason I brought it to your attention - is the witness testimony of transits through Treblinka.

Firstly the eyewitness video footage is footage stolen from Speilberg's documentary "Shoa" and has been edited to show propaganda. As well as stealing the footage Eric Hunt and Frederick Berg stole the soundtrack music as well. This is not good news for them as they kindly added their names to the credits. I'll let the USA copyright protection agencies sort that out. [.....]

Interesting that mutually corroborating eyewitness testimony is now considered revisionist propaganda!

So what do these thieves offer as their citations.
Gaschamberhoax.com ( Frederick Berg website)
Nazigassing.com ( Frederick Berg website)
CODOH.com ( The holocaust deniers forum)
VHO.com ( A defunct holocaust denial website)[.....]

The correct link is vho.org. It's still up, though the material is being added to CODOH.

(2.20)
There is no evidence of Jewish Gassing deaths be it cyanide or carbon monoxide poisoning."
There is tons of evidence for this including eyewitnesses, documents and now Dr Colls team is showing us photos of the gas chamber floors. I will let another member destroy this claim in detail

See The "Extermination Camps of "Aktion Reinhardt" for this. These eyewitnesses describe showers. Perhaps the tiles discovered by Caroline Sturdy Colls are from the same showers referred to by the witnesses.

(2.25)
and no mass grave containing the bodies of millions of gassed Jews"
(3.56)
"According to the official story ...then the corpses were dug back up and set on fire"
This is hilarious. Berg & Hunt both know the bodies were cremated and therefore demand to see "full graves full of uncremated dead bodies" as their only acceptable evidence. This is "how low" these people go.

The revisionist claim is that the pits where bodies were buried would be identifiable by patterns of disturbed earth, whilst the ashes would be still present.

(3.22)
and there has been no full scale archaeological excavation of the site"
Well there have been two. The Polish investigation in 1945 and Dr Colls team in 2013 & 2014. In fact Dr Colls and Justice Lukaszkiewicz are not discussed anywhere in the video.

The emphasis has to be on "full scale". The Polish/Soviet investigation was incomplete and questionable given both the time and authorship. Dr Colls investigation was the subject of a radio program and TV documentary, neither of which contain decisive findings, despite the use of ground penetrating radar in the first, though strangely not in the second where there was no reference to mass graves in Treblinka II itself, but instead to ashes being scattered in the neighbouring countryside.

(3.45)
"There is a lack of documentation about the camp"
I will tell that to SS Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle and ask if he can send a copy of his telegram to Hunt and Berg. I will let other members list all the other documentary evidence.

That would be difficult, as Höfle committed suicide in 1962, having refused to confess after a year in custody. Other evidence as dealt with in Mattogno's books, cited above.

"Diesel Engines are not an efficient method of killing people"
The video shows one man in a modern German diesel car running a hose through the window as "evidence". It doesn't show 400 people in small airtight room being gassed with a tank engine tweaked to produce high levels of carbon monoxide replacing the reducing air, being breathed by 400 people before they died. They also asphyxiated. [.....]

This is imaginative. How would the Germans have known how to "tweak" a Soviet diesel engine to produce carbon monoxide? This of course is Fritz Berg's obsession, who was involved with the video.

""The Jews were given real showers at Treblinka to keep them alive before they traveled on" This is hilarious. The idiot agrees that there were bathhouses ( gas chambers) at Treblinka but never thought to ask where the water to shower 4,000 people a day came from. Treblinka had one camp well.

This is a fair question. However, as regards numbers, the testimony speaks of one transport of 104 people and one with seven carriages containing 50 people each. Do you find the testimony convincing that there were functioning showers at Treblinka?

(29.38)
As this video is from Berg, the voice over person spends time claiming that the bodies should all be bright pink and no one noticed. He does not mention that the bodies putrefy and turn blue black and that the German commanding officer did notice this. "I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of black-blue corpses"

Yes, another of Berg's obsessions. It seems evident though that bodies would not have time to "putrefy" in the 15 minutes the asphyxiation is supposed to have taken.

Summing up
This is poorly produced propaganda. The producers are unaware of the 1945 Polish forensic investigation and the 2013 & 2014 English forensic investigation that both found human remains and the empty mass graves.

As for the production standard, it is only a draft version. As for Colls investigation, it is not covered, but there is no evidence one way or the other in the video as to whether the makers are aware of it. As at least one of them reads CODOH, I'd imagine they may well be. There was a reference in coverage of the 2013 investigation to possible mass graves identified by ground penetrating radar, though not of a size to have contained the numbers of people alleged (see Kues article on CODOH). This was not followed up in 2014. Instead, there was excavation that confirmed a mass grave well outside Treblinka II, but no forensic evidence to identify who was buried there, though Dr Colls assumed the Nazis were the perpetrators.

The producer do not mention any real evidence at all. They fail to mention.
*The confessions by both camp commanding officers and their men
* The forensic evidence of human ash covering 20,000,000 square metres photographed by the Polish investigation
* The mass burial pits discovered and excavated in 1945
* Eyewitness testimony by both Germans, Poles and Jews as to the mass executions.
* Documentation,
* The archeological investigation of Colls and Justice Lukaszkiewicz
* Train movement logs from Treblinka and so on.

The stated focus of the video was to discredit an extreme form of the "pure extermination camp" theory by witness testimony of transits through Treblinka and an attempt to discredit the Sonderkommando testimony in general. There is no intention to be exhaustive.

Yes. It seems that Berg & Hunt are now hiding as much evidence as they can in their propaganda videos and that "holocaust denier revisionists" have just become a mere religious cult. Why do you EtienneSC, a holocaust denier, think they left out all the evidence of confessions, documents, 20,000 square metres if human ash, excavated empty mass graves and so on. Please explain in detail and how you deal with this evidence?

There is a fuller video treatment in One Third of the Holocaust, which is recommended in the video, and book length analyses of the evidence in Mattogno et al's books, cited above.

Can you, EtienneSC, a holocaust denier, explain how 4,000 people a day had a shower when Treblinka had one small camp well? Please explain your view how this happened, in extreme detail.

"since there was a water shortage at Treblinka, and only the Germans and the guards were allowed to use it."

The last citation is from Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman's Black Book of Russian Jewry, right? Do you accept the USC Shoah Foundation witnesses that there were functioning showers there? Is that consistent with Ehrenburg & Grossman? I'm not sure of the 4,000 per day figure, which the eye witnesses do nothing to confirm, speaking rather of the low hundreds per train. My understanding is that access to water is not difficult in that part of Poland. As for "extreme detail", that may no longer be possible, but I've also cited several books, discussion of the most recent of which died out on this site some months ago.

 

[EtienneSC]

1) Did you watch this video yourself before posting it? Yes/ No?

Yes.

2) Eric Hunt ( or the narrator) in this video makes two conflicting statements and then demands to see mass graves with bodies as evidence.

"there are no mass graves containing the remains of almost a million Jews alleged to be buried here."

"According to the official story ...the corpses were dug back up and set on fire"

If the official story ( which is correct) is that the bodies from Treblinka were mostly cremated, Do you think the Eric Hunt is correct in demanding evidence of mass burial pits full of bodies? Yes/ No?

Your quote above speaks of "remains". The phrasing is ambiguous at first, but there is no doubt what is meant as the narrator continues, per your second quote. As shown in One Third of the Holocaust, there would still be evidence of any original burial pits in the form of disturbed earth. Nothing relevant was visible in Caroline Sturdy Colls' 2014 LIDAR images of the camp and nothing of sufficient size was identified in the 2013 radar survey. The issue of the original pits could only be solved by taking core samples.

3) The propaganda video did not mention the confessions of the camp commanding officers, The 2013 & 2014 "Colls" investigation or the 1945 "Lukaszkiewicz" investigation, the empty mass graves found, the eyewitnesses, nor the 20,000 square metres of human ash found at Treblinka. Ash is likely still to be there.

Do you think this propaganda video left out important evidence? Yes/ No?

Yes, though it refers viewers to One Third of the Holocaust, which summarises revisionist work prior to around 2006 and to Mattogno's first book on the subject.

Do you mean cubic metres? There is human ash at Treblinka, but how do we know how much?

 

[000063]

Your quote above speaks of "remains". The phrasing is ambiguous at first, but there is no doubt what is meant as the narrator continues, per your second quote. As shown in One Third of the Holocaust, there would still be evidence of any original burial pits in the form of disturbed earth. Nothing relevant was visible in Caroline Sturdy Colls' 2014 LIDAR images of the camp and nothing of sufficient size was identified in the 2013 radar survey. The issue of the original pits could only be solved by taking core samples.

So, are you saying Yes?

Are you saying that Hunt is demanding evidence of burial pits, but not full of bodies?

I have significant doubts about what the narrator meant. Please expand upon the two statements. I've hilited the part giving me trouble.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Firstly the eyewitness video footage is footage stolen from Speilberg's documentary "Shoa" and has been edited to show propaganda.

Interesting that mutually corroborating eyewitness testimony is now considered revisionist propaganda!

It is neither mutual nor corroborating because it is edited footage. Do you acknowledge that holocaust deniers Hunt & Berg have edited the footage they stole and that the eyewitnesses narrations are not the original full statements made by the eyewitnesses in Shoa? Yes/ No?

(Just for the record. Eric Hunt has just formally refused to supply transcripts)

(2.25)
and no mass grave containing the bodies of millions of gassed Jews"
(3.56)
"According to the official story ...then the corpses were dug back up and set on fire"
This is hilarious. Berg & Hunt both know the bodies were cremated and therefore demand to see "full graves full of uncremated dead bodies" as their only acceptable evidence. This is "how low" these people go.

The revisionist claim is that the pits where bodies were buried would be identifiable by patterns of disturbed earth, whilst the ashes would be still present.

We have the measured empty mass graves at Treblinka and have placed human body parts and ash in those same empty graves since 1945. Didn't you know this? Yes/ No?

'its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition Justice Lukaszkiewicz

(3.22)
" and there has been no full scale archaeological excavation of the site"
Well there have been two. The Polish investigation in 1945 and Dr Colls team in 2013 & 2014. In fact Dr Colls and Justice Lukaszkiewicz are not discussed anywhere in the video.

The emphasis has to be on "full scale". The Polish/Soviet investigation was incomplete and questionable given both the time and authorship.

Lukaszkiewicz was on site for seven days and received forensic confirmation back that the ash was human. Lukaszkiewicz excavated mass graves. Time Team do a full scale excavation in three days. You are simply hand waiving Lukaszkiewicz because you are a holocaust denier.

Dr Colls investigation was the subject of a radio program and TV documentary.....

You really are unaware of this aren't you?

Preliminary Results of the Survey at Treblinka II (the extermination camp)
http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeolo...urvey-at-treblinka-ii-the-extermination-camp/

"Non-invasive geophysical survey has allowed the location of a number of mass graves and cremation pits to be determined in the extermination camp....."

Cremated and non-cremated human remains were located on the surface of the extermination camp area and also during the excavations.

 

[EtienneSC]

So, are you saying Yes?

Are you saying that Hunt is demanding evidence of burial pits, but not full of bodies?

I have significant doubts about what the narrator meant. Please expand upon the two statements. I've hilited the part giving me trouble.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The full story is outlined in One Third of the Holocaust and there are two main points.

Firstly, the holocaust narrative is that 700,000 bodies were buried in pits at Treblinka. The existence of these pits would still be evidenced by disruption to the sediment layers. This could be identified by comparing core samples from where the pits are alleged to have been with control samples from nearby. The basis for this is that soil is layered - e.g. layers of humus, clay, river sediment, etc, depending on the recent geological history of the area. You can see such layers in some seaside cliffs. When pits are dug, these layers are disturbed. The argument in One Third of the Holocaust (rightly or wrongly) is that this has not been done at some or all of the Aktion Reinhard camps. Hunt is simply repeating this.

Secondly and in addition, the remains of these 700,000 incinerated bodies (which were later dug up and burned) and related wood ash would still be there. To this would be added the remains of some 50,000+ bodies that were burned directly after gassing, after the supposed 1943 Himmler order to dig up and burn the bodies was put into effect. These remains would take up much less space than the unburned bodies, but still a considerable volume.

Matthew Ellard claims that there are are 20,000 square [meaning cubic?] meters of such ash at Treblinka. However, there was no reference to this in the recent UK Channel 5 documentary on the Caroline Sturdy Colls forensic investigation.