General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[nomuse]

You know this how?

Churchill, for most of the time the history of WWII was being written, was in the opposition, eying a political comeback.

Reviews I've read of Churchill's work - again, I haven't read the volumes - suggest that Churchill pitched the narrative (well, his ghostwriters did) to his own need in the present more than anything - earning money, presenting his leadership during the war as a triumphant success.

These reviews could be wrong, of course, so how do you know that Churchill was concerned, as Fauri says, "that there existed no satisfactory evidence to substantiate public claims that execution gas chambers did indeed exist" rather than omitted and included based on other goals? What's the evidence, aside from Fauri's argument that it must have been so because it was so?

And the second part was actually edited by the opposition. Who were more privy to what would still fall under the official secrets acts, and what could be divulged at time of publication.

 

[Nessie]

We are not discussing academic writing here; we are discussing Spileberg’s propaganda films, which are filled with outright lies.

Please stop trolling this thread.

It is not just Steven Speilburg who fabricated events during WWII, John Sturges did it with The Great Escape. Then have you seen Where Eagles Dare? Outrageous.

 

[Charles Traynor]

Some of us don't / can't do youtube. Why don't you tell us what you find so compelling about this video, and be prepared to support it?

Why don't you watch it [YOU WANTED TO DISCUSS THE FILM] and answer the following for those who can't:


http://www.holocaustdenier.com/questions-for-holohoax-promoters/

Edited by LashL: 

Snipped for Rule 4 (and Rule 6) and added link to source.

 

[nomuse]

Was Spielberg’s The Liberators withdrawn from public sale because:

A. It was full of lies?
B. It had become a lightning rod for bad publicity?

Can you tell me any more about this documentary? The only mention I have found on it so far is at denier sites (and they don't give any real information.) A read through of Speilberg's complete filmography at the IMBD fails to turn up any mention of it.

Nor can I find any independent mention of controversy outside of the well-documented problems several people have had with "Shindler's List."

 

[nomuse]

We are not discussing academic writing here; we are discussing Spileberg’s propaganda films, which are filled with outright lies.

Please stop trolling this thread.

I don't think so. Read the thread, and see which is more outside of the general trend; referencing academic sources, or arguing about how the inadequacies of the Hollywood version of events is somehow more important than anything else.

 

[Moss]

We are not discussing academic writing here; we are discussing Spileberg’s propaganda films, which are filled with outright lies.

Please stop trolling this thread.

Actually we are discussing academic writing as it is the relevant portrayal of the topic at hand. That your claims fall short of demolishing that is not my problem.

 

[nomuse]

Which completely ignores the fact that Germany started the War by invading Poland which resulted in Great Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declaring war.

Plus there was the little matter of Great Britain losing/taking the chance to get out of their overseas colonies. Japan may have failed in its attempt at empire, but it certainly changed the shape of the Pacific.

 

[Marras]

We are not discussing academic writing here; we are discussing Spileberg’s propaganda films, which are filled with outright lies.

Please stop trolling this thread.

Have you considered actually reading this thread before issuing statements about its essential nature?

 

[Nessie]

Why don't you watch it [YOU WANTED TO DISCUSS THE FILM] and answer the following for those who can't:

...

Zisblatt and others have been lying and/or exaggerating. Speilburg is not an accurate historical resource and people who think he is are being daft. The Soviets did reconstruct a gas chamber at Auschwitz (and tour guides should be clear about that which they were not when my relatives went there) and stories of football, plays and murals are true.

What does that now tell us about the Holocaust?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Lemmy, try reading for comprehension. Do you really think visiting a cemetary is equal to digging up the bodies?

Excuse me. Of course I don't. I called your post idiotic for equating the two.

So any religious objections to exhuming a corpse would also prohibit people from visiting cemetaries, right?

Of course not. I called you idiotic for implying the same.

So you can't walk over a spot where someone is buried, you can't dig up the body but you can walk all over somebody's skeleton as long as it's in fragments and scattered over the surface? Is there some rule about a body not being a body if all that is left is the skeleton? And in fact people do generally prefer that you not walk directly over grave. Wasn't the whole point of Kola's investigation at Belzec to identify the mass graves before burying the whole camp under a pile of rubble so people could avoid walking on top of them? And what's with the quotes around 'people?' Are the "people" who lost loved ones at the AR camps not "people?"

Blah, blah, blah. You're the one who wrote the silliness about "you don't need to worry about desecrating anybody's grave by digging at these sites. I hear the surface of the AR camps is covered with bones shards of the victims. People who don't worry about tourists walking all over a loved ones remains isn't going to care if somebody else digs a hole." Digging, which differs to walking over, does, whether you or I like it, violate the sensitivities of some people.

 

[uke2se]

Are we now discussing movies in this thread? Is it time to shut it down or move it to the humor forum?

 

[uke2se]

Excuse me. Of course I don't. I called your post idiotic for equating the two.



Of course not. I called you idiotic for implying the same.



Blah, blah, blah. You're the one who wrote the silliness about "you don't need to worry about desecrating anybody's grave by digging at these sites. I hear the surface of the AR camps is covered with bones shards of the victims. People who don't worry about tourists walking all over a loved ones remains isn't going to care if somebody else digs a hole." Digging, which differs to walking over, does, whether you or I like it, violate the sensitivities of some people.

Wait wait wait... I have DZ on ignore because I find his posts insufferable, but did he really try to claim that digging = walking? Perhaps he should take a course in remedial English before trying to disprove the holocaust.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I don't expect documentaries to be historically accurate. That's why I get my knowledge from academic writing. Which for some unfathomable reason both you and Mr. Traynor seem to shy away from.

Oh, I think that the reason is fathomable.

 

[Moss]

Oh, I think that the reason is fathomable.

I have my suspicions, but those are rather uncharitable.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Sigh.

In other words, no matter those liars are the vanguard that communicates the Holocaust to the non Jewish of the world.

That blind acceptance by and demanded of non Jewish people by champions of the Holocaust such as yourself is as dangerous as the agendas that are enabled by it.

The Holocaust has become armor for EVIL.

I said that? I called these people liars? I called for "blind obedience"? Please show me where I did that.

Your post is strange, as I recall saying I have no time for Wiesel, I said I am not really familiar with Wiesenthal's work, etc. Also, I recall citing book after book and idea after idea truly revising, based on sources and documents, how the Holocaust and Third Reich are understood. Last, I am very concerned about misinformation and lies about the Holocaust, which is why I spend time exposing yours and those of other deniers.

 

[TSR]

We are not discussing academic writing here; we are discussing Spileberg’s propaganda films, which are filled with outright lies.

Please stop trolling this thread.

No, *you* want to discuss (some of) Spielberg's films. There is another thread for that.

In *this* thread, we are discussing Holocaust denial -- kindly refer to the subject.

The Holocaust is an historical event, researched and documented by academics, and denied by those with a desire to whitewash Nazi crimes.

 

[TSR]

I do expect documentaries to be accurate. I don't expect feature films to be.

And if one happens not to be -- does it change the historical facts of the matter?

 

[TSR]

Why don't you watch it [YOU WANTED TO DISCUSS THE FILM] and answer the following for those who can't:

Because I have no interest in your attempted derail, since this film is completely irrelevant to the subject of this thread.

Please desist in your attempt to derail the thread.

Why don't *you* find something substantive to say about your denial?

ETA: No, I did not want to discuss it, and one notes that you have not yet acknowledged correction on the matter of "The Liberators" having been withdrawn from sale.

 

[Nessie]

And if one happens not to be -- does it change the historical facts of the matter?

Clearly it does not.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Some of us don't / can't do youtube.

Not Youtube
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/

"Contaminated" in what way?

Zyklon-B