Geller Vs. Randi

[yairhol]

Randi Vs. Geller

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/4/ART1/637/364.html

What do you mean you can't read hebrew?
(psst, they're talking about the hungarian "successor" version.
Randi says he'll expose Geller's tricks to the public. It gets even better than that. Randi will have his Hungarian show
where he will explain all the tricks that appear on the Geller Hungarian successor but Randi's show will air
before Geller's show so that everyone will know the tricks and how to do them already by the time Geller's show airs).
Brilliant!!

Regards,
Yair

 

[madurobob]

The "before" bit is brilliant, yes. But while we hope the message is "its all just slight of hand, smoke and mirrors don't watch the Geller show" I suspect one of the unintended consequences is that MORE people tune in for the Geller show.

I spose thats fine if it means more people ridiculing Geller. But, it will also mean more money in his pocket and better odds that there will be more "Successor" versions.

Somehow I think Geller's ego is such that he'll see the higher viewership as affirmation of his acceptance and popularity.

But, then again, maybe TV execs around the world will take notice and book Randi every time as a ratings booster!

 

[Tipush]

I suppose Madurobob is right, it will only help "the successor" be even more popular.


Geller once said on a radio show in Israel "There's no such thing as bad publicity" and he's got the expirience to know he's right.
Unfortunatly, he's gonna be right once again.

 

[yairhol]

Yeah but what's the other option? not doing the Randi show? that would mean that we did nothing and gave up on trying to spread the word of skepticizm, this case about Geller being a fraud.
Doing the Randi show is much better than not doing anything. And I think that people who would see the Geller show after seeing Randi's will only have a good laugh on Geller (those who believe with all their hearts in Geller will not be convinced by Randi and will never be convinced anyway) plus it would have many more people exposed to Randi's work and eventually some of those will come out of the skepticizm closet and talk about skepticizm in the open.

Regards,
Yair

 

[yairhol]

Tipush, where have you been and how come you only have 39 posts?
oh, and you're wrong in your conclusion about the geller randi shows as I've written in post #4 so there and there...

Regards,
Yair

 

[Winterbreeze]

No problem if it gives him rating, as long as they know it's fake.

 

[yairhol]

No problem if it gives him rating, as long as they know it's fake.

Yeah, in the short run (for the first few shows) his rating may go up but afterwards people will get tired of it since they already know all there is to know about the tricks in his shows and eventually fade away from seeing it. But what's more exciting is that many will get to know Randi and his work and come here and talk more loudly about it.

Regards,
Yair

 

[tsg]

The "before" bit is brilliant, yes. But while we hope the message is "its all just slight of hand, smoke and mirrors don't watch the Geller show" I suspect one of the unintended consequences is that MORE people tune in for the Geller show.

I spose thats fine if it means more people ridiculing Geller. But, it will also mean more money in his pocket and better odds that there will be more "Successor" versions.

Somehow I think Geller's ego is such that he'll see the higher viewership as affirmation of his acceptance and popularity.

But, then again, maybe TV execs around the world will take notice and book Randi every time as a ratings booster!

I suspect that it will increase the ratings for the first few episodes, but once people realize Geller is a three-trick pony and that they are all sleight-of-hand, interest in his antics will drop off. I mean, how many times can you watch a guy bend a spoon when you know it's a trick?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

For a decade from 1963 to 1973 Pierre Berton had an interview show on Canadian TV. One week he had a psychic on who did all sorts of marvelous things (reading sealed envelopes, etc). I did not see that episode. But I did see the next one. He introduced it by saying that this week he had a stage magician on who had called to say that he could do everything the "psychic" had done but that it was all stage magic. The magician then proceeded to do exactly that. Completely to Pierre's satisfaction and mine. It was a seminal moment for me in my voyage to skepticism.

I suspect that Randi's replication of Geller's tricks (does he actually have more than two?) will have the same effect on some people. If it is only one, it will still be worthwhile.

PS. I tried Googling (tm) to find more details about the show. No luck. Anyone?

 

[yairhol]

From Randi's Swift: http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-08/082407newton.html

AND IN HUNGARY?

Reader Nandor Bokor, in Hungary, expresses his dismay on another angle of this project. He asks:
Uri Geller's "The Successor" on Hungarian TV in 2009?
I've been a constant and enthusiastic reader of your weekly comments for several years now, and I greatly admire your work to expose fraud. Also, I regularly attend the Skeptic Meetings in Hungary (during the last of which we were honored to receive a video message from you).
The reason I write to you is to inform you of some disappointing news circulating in Hungary recently. It seems that Uri Geller's latest effort to remain in the spotlight, the TV show "The Successor," which ended so embarrassingly for him in Israel, is not such a fiasco after all. Apparently, TV producers all over the world stand eagerly in line to invite Geller, do the show with him and broadcast it in their own country.
One of the two main private TV channels in Hungary, tv2, announced that after the NBC and Pro7 version, they will do a Hungarian version of the show with Geller and broadcast it for the Hungarian audience. They'll wait until the American and German shows are over, so the Hungarian show will probably not be broadcast before 2009, but they are already starting the ad campaign. They referred to the original Israeli broadcast as "a great success." All of this is very disturbing, of course.
There might be one good thing in it though. I hope it will prompt a renewed and lively discussion on Hungarian TV about "paranormal" frauds, and, especially, I hope that the media (always eager for sensation) will "smell" sensation in the embarrassment Geller put himself in in Israel (which was widely publicized on youtube), and run a full story of it again during the broadcast of the show in Hungary. We'll see.
Nandor, we’re currently negotiating with the Hungarian producers about running debunking sessions along with the Geller presentations in your country. As we know, his repertoire is very limited, and showing his methods will be very easily done. We’ll keep you informed...!

Only in 2009?
Sheesh...

Regards,
Yair

 

[tsg]

I suspect that Randi's replication of Geller's tricks (does he actually have more than two?) will have the same effect on some people.

The three that I am aware of are spoon-bending, moving a compass and a "remote viewing" trick where he draws the same thing someone else has without having, supposedly, seen them do it.

 

[DJM]

Randi should not make a show that exposes those tricks, because it would also ruin to all the thousands of magicians who perform the same stuff. What is their crime?

What he should do is perform Geller's effects, while making it obvious that Randi is just a magician and it's all just illusions. That way Geller gets exposed without explaining how exactly it works.

 

[tsg]

Randi should not make a show that exposes those tricks, because it would also ruin to all the thousands of magicians who perform the same stuff. What is their crime?

What he should do is perform Geller's effecrs, while making it obvious that Randi is just a magician and it's all jusy illusions. That way Geller gets exposed without explaining how exactly it works.

It's possible to show the tricks are sleight of hand without exposing how they are done. All Randi, as an ordinary, "non-gifted" person, has to do is replicate the trick.

The other argument is that the tricks Geller does are so basic and easily figured out that few magicians are actually doing them professionally. Geller can't get any attention with them except by claiming that it's really magic.

ETA: Few magicians would chastise Randi for giving away the "got your nose" trick. I suspect that Geller's are only slightly more complicated.

 

[geni]

Randi should not make a show that exposes those tricks, because it would also ruin to all the thousands of magicians who perform the same stuff. What is their crime?

Lack of originality. Patents last twenty years given the length of time geller has been around I think any IP claims have reasonably expired.

 

[DJM]

Many mentalists bend spoons and duplicate drawings.. it doesn't mean they lack originality, it's just part of mentalism routines. Is it lack of originality when magicians vanish things? It's been done for ages.

Like I said, Randi should do all of Geller's effects to show everyone how easy it is and there's nothing supernatural involved. Exposing the secret itself would not be the most ethical thing to do.

 

[tsg]

Many mentalists bend spoons and duplicate drawings.. it doesn't mean they lack originality, it's just part of mentalism routines. Is it lack of originality when magicians vanish things? It's been done for ages.

Like I said, Randi should do all of Geller's effects to show everyone how easy it is and there's nothing supernatural involved. Exposing the secret itself would not be the most ethical thing to do.

I agree that Randi can serve the purpose by not exposing the secret, but I think it is much more powerful a demonstration if he does. And, truth be told, I'm not sure that exposing Geller as a fraud isn't more important than protecting a few tricks for mentalists to perform.

ETA: Along the same lines, I think very few would be opposed to exposing the secret of pulling a quarter from somebody's ear if some high official suggested it was a solution to poverty.

 

[madurobob]

Yeah but what's the other option? not doing the Randi show? that would mean that we did nothing and gave up on trying to spread the word of skepticizm...

I am fully in support of Randi doing his show in advance. I was simply pointing out the obvious unintended consequence of actually helping Geller succeed.

The least we can hope for is the light bulb blinking on over one bleever's head. The best we can hope for is enough disgusted people refusing to watch Geller's show that it is canceled after one episode. I don't think the latter is likely.

 

[geni]

Many mentalists bend spoons and duplicate drawings.. it doesn't mean they lack originality, it's just part of mentalism routines. Is it lack of originality when magicians vanish things? It's been done for ages.

If the method has been around for ages then less lack of orginality.

Like I said, Randi should do all of Geller's effects to show everyone how easy it is and there's nothing supernatural involved. Exposing the secret itself would not be the most ethical thing to do.

Why not?

 

[DJM]

And, truth be told, I'm not sure that exposing Geller as a fraud isn't more important than protecting a few tricks for mentalists to perform.

They are both important in their own way, as exposing secrets is considered unethical in the magic world. I've heard from a few magicians who are against this kind of exposure, because it could also hurt them in the long run. And I agree with them.

 

[DJM]

Why not?

Because exposing magic tricks for the public to see is considered unethical.. especially when some of those effects are also performed by other mentalists who have done nothing wrong.