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Geller Magnet Video - Confused! :(

Cueshark

Thinker
C
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
166
Can we discuss this video please.

The classic Geller video which he appears to grab a device and attach to his thumb to turn the compass was always clear cut to me.

I've been shown a link to a debunking of the debunking.

Can someone with more experience than me take a look at this and help me come to an informed conclusion. I'm willing to accept that he used another method or that the accusation of trickery was entirely unfounded.

See link...

http://reporter.blackraiser.com/?p=534

Cue :<
 
He's a magician. It really doesn't matter how he cheated. The only thing that matters is that his accomplishments cannot be reproduced under controlled conditions. His "power" cannot be studied; thus it cannot be understood. And that makes it, and everything else Geller does, useless.
 
The guy is attempting to prove that something did or did not occur in a video by using images from a youtube movie of terrible quality that's probably been around the block a couple of times.

In other words - he doesn't prove anything.

His other attempt at proving Geller is for real is that a magnet can't do that. I suggest you look around youtube, you'll find the videos of Randi replicating the trick with no problem what so ever.

His last argument is a silly attempt at attacking the person rather than the argument.

In other words - It's all garbage.

The fact of the matter is that nothing we do will ever prove that Geller has cheated beside forcing a confession out of him.

When Randi duplicated his tricks, he didn't really "prove" that this was how Geller was doing it. It simply showed that it can be done. Now comes the question of why didn't Geller just repeat his demonstration under better controlled conditions.

Burden of proof is on him, not us.
 
Here's a bit from the article.
Nearly all scientists attribute Lewis Pugh’s amazing capability to a phenomenon known as “anticipatory thermogenesis,” which is just a technical name for mind-over-matter. There is little doubt in most researchers’ minds that his talent is actually a psi ability based on “superior mental powers.” Pugh can raise his core body temperature to 101 degrees without any physical exertion. It should therefore be evident that Uri Geller, in a similar way, can raise his core body magnetism.
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In this tiny excerp, there is an outright lie followed by a dizzying leap of logic.
Do most researchers believe Pugh's ability to raise his body temperature is a psi ability? No, every major expert considers it a Pavlovian response mechanism. An exceedingly rare one, but nothing paranormal.

He then makes the leap that since one man can raise his body temperature, another man can obviously "raise his core body magnetism". That's a bit like saying that one man has the ability to raise his body temperature, so obviously another man can become invisible. One in no way logically follows from the other.

I could do this for every paragraph of the article, but that would be a waste of everyone's time. I call it the "Potatoes" test, after a poster here who made wild conspiracy claims and also proceeded to argue about the proper spelling of "Potatoes" even after being given a link to every major online dictionary, and most major culinary and agricultural websites.

The point being, if someone making an extraordinary claim shows themself incapable of dealing with very basic logic and evidence, it isn't worth the time to tediously debunk every one of their arguments.
 
I find that article highly dubious, if for no other reason than they say this...

In “Photo 1” we see a wide overall view of the controversial Israeli TV video scene where Uri Geller’s critics accuse him one way or another of allegedly plucking a slightly thick “hidden magnet” from the edge of his hairline. Notice the fingertips of the young man standing to the right. It is clearly identifiable that motion blur and not some conjuring glove or terminal projection causes the bent deformation of the young man’s extended hand.
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When, in fact, if you look very closely, that does appear to indeed be the shape of the young man's hand. If you watch this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmTxf9XP36M - closely at about the 0:52 mark, you can see that he isn't really moving his hand that fast at all. So any claims that this is "motion blur" are just silly.
 
While I am not defending Geller (nor do I intend to), the trouble with the sceptical position here is that they cannot offer any suggestions as to how Geller actually does it. For example the "magnet hypothesis" is a bust for a start:

"...no magnet of that small size can affect anything that far away. So get a small magnet, like a fridge magnet (10 gauss) and a standard compass, bring it over the compass and you can show that you have to go closer than 5 cm. or something like that to be able to control the compass, but it still does not move like it does in the video.” In other words, a magnet small enough to hide in someone’s hairline can’t possibly make a compass needle shift as much as it does in the Uri Geller video." (http://reporter.blackraiser.com/?p=534)

While ever there is no rational explanation forthcoming, there will always be people willing to attribute his abilities to psychic power. And that poses a real problem for organisations such as the JREF who want to rid the world of "woo". The only way they can counter this is to put forward plausible explanations as to how it can be done. Failing that, "woo" will remain triumphant.
 
Rramjet said:
While ever there is no rational explanation forthcoming, there will always be people willing to attribute his abilities to psychic power. And that poses a real problem for organisations such as the JREF who want to rid the world of "woo". The only way they can counter this is to put forward plausible explanations as to how it can be done. Failing that, "woo" will remain triumphant.
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And that's why you are completely wrong. Just because the guy says there is no explanation and it can't be done doesn't mean it can't be done... You don't need a large magnet to do that at all.

Here you go, an actual demonstration of the same trick and a take on the video by Randi.

http://www.youtube.com/user/jamesrandifoundation?blend=1&ob=4#p/search/0/siDy1o9-swk

An extremely smaller magnet, even smaller than the thumb can be used.
 
Not only does Randi prove your critic wrong through demonstration Ramjet, but he disproves himself.

no magnet of that small size can affect anything that far away. So get a small magnet, like a fridge magnet (10 gauss) and a standard compass, bring it over the compass and you can show that you have to go closer than 5 cm. or something like that to be able to control the compass, but it still does not move like it does in the video.” In other words, a magnet small enough to hide in someone’s hairline can’t possibly make a compass needle shift as much as it does in the Uri Geller video.
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The writer claims to have studied magnets, but doesn't seem to understand that a ceramic fridge magnet like he's describing is one of the least powerful magnets available, and cheap tiny neodymium magnets, the size of the one in Randi's video, can easily have 50 times the power or more. A magnet that can fit into a fake thumb could easily be more than 4 times and large and powerful.
 
Cavemonster said:
Not only does Randi prove your critic wrong through demonstration Ramjet, but he disproves himself.

The writer claims to have studied magnets, but doesn't seem to understand that a ceramic fridge magnet like he's describing is one of the least powerful magnets available, and cheap tiny neodymium magnets, the size of the one in Randi's video, can easily have 50 times the power or more. A magnet that can fit into a fake thumb could easily be more than 4 times and large and powerful.
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Okay, fair enough. On reviewing both videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/jamesran.../0/siDy1o9-swk - and - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmTxf9XP36M) I think the magnet explanation does stand up as a plausible explanation. Thanks for your considered reply Cavemonster, I appreciate it.
 
It's amazing how the argument from authority can sometimes shake you in your position.

When reading that article with all the annotations and the amount of time he claimed to have spent conducting a frame by frame analysis, I found it persuasive.
 
Cavemonster said:
Not only does Randi prove your critic wrong through demonstration Ramjet, but he disproves himself.



The writer claims to have studied magnets, but doesn't seem to understand that a ceramic fridge magnet like he's describing is one of the least powerful magnets available, and cheap tiny neodymium magnets, the size of the one in Randi's video, can easily have 50 times the power or more. A magnet that can fit into a fake thumb could easily be more than 4 times and large and powerful.
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Magnets how the **** do they work?
 
1278676908863.jpg
 
It is a huge jump of faith in the claim/statement Geller might raise his magnetic powers as similar to the person who can raise his body temprature..

The problem with the statement as I see it; is the plain fact that to raise a magnetic field, electrical power is requierd. To have magnetic power like a normal day magnet and to generate it will require the body to use quite an amount of energy. If I am not mistaking, the power needed to do so will fry cells instantly.

If it is as such, then Geller should be fried after every demonstration of his compass-act.
Geller is but a show-man. A conjurer just like Penn and Teller, Hans Kazan, James Randi,.. with the sole difference he wants people to believe in paranormal fallacies to his own profit.
 
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Didnt Geller just recently say he was a fake? and besides, its been proven over and over again that theese tricks can easily be replicated by a mentally unstable 5 year old.
Why cant people just let this go?
 
Triology said:
Didnt Geller just recently say he was a fake? and besides, its been proven over and over again that theese tricks can easily be replicated by a mentally unstable 5 year old.
Why cant people just let this go?
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Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uri_Geller

[Quote = Wikipedia]
In 2007, skeptics observed that Geller appeared to have dropped his claims that he does not perform magic tricks. Randi highlighted a quotation from the November 2007 issue of the magazine Magische Welt (Magic World) in which Geller said: "I'll no longer say that I have supernatural powers. I am an entertainer. I want to do a good show. My entire character has changed."

In a later interview, Geller told Telepolis, "I said to this German magazine, so what I did say, that I changed my character, to the best of my recollection, and I no longer say that I do supernatural things. It doesn't mean that I don't have powers. It means that I don't say 'it's supernatural', I say 'I'm a mystifier!' That's what I said. And the sceptics turned it around and said, 'Uri Geller said he's a magician!' I never said that." In that interview, Geller further explained that when he is asked how he does his stunts, he tells children to "Forget the paranormal. Forget spoon bending! Instead of that, focus on school! Become a positive thinker! Believe in yourself and create a target! Go to university! Never smoke! And never touch drugs! And think of success!"
[/Quote]
 
"Forget the paranormal. Forget spoon bending! Instead of that, focus on school! Become a positive thinker! Believe in yourself and create a target! Go to university! Never smoke! And never touch drugs! And think of success!"
[/Quote][/QUOTE]

Well, thats one thing he got right.
I honestly dont get where hes going whit this interview, im honestly kinda fed up whit him entirely...
 
Triology said:
Well, thats one thing he got right.
I honestly dont get where hes going whit this interview, im honestly kinda fed up whit him entirely...
Click to expand...

That's simple enough to deduce. He's playing both sides of the fence.

Not saying he has paranormal powers and not saying he doesn't have.
 
Cueshark, don't revise your opinion just yet...

I am embarrassed to admit that despite studying Geller for a decade or more I originally fell for the claim that Geller had been caught blatantly using a well known magicians' gimmick (a thumb-tip - google it) containing a magnet in order to move a compass on his TV show. The still shots seemed to show something on his thumb, plus he seemed to have been caught on camera putting said gimmick in place. I've since kicked myself for my naivety.

Put yourself in Geller's shoes for a moment. You've been moving compasses for over 35 years including ones similar to that seen in this clip. No sceptic or magician has ever suggested you employ a thumb-tip. What they have suggested is that you probably have a magnet concealed in your mouth. (A far better hiding place as it doesn't involve the well known magicians' gimmick, is unlikely to be searched and if need be you can swallow the evidence). I should add that the video, photographic and eye witness accounts of Geller's compass moving do circumstantially support the suggestion that he conceals magnets in this fashion.

Now, here you are on your own TV show, an executive producer of it with access to the props, plenty of rehearsal time and at least some control over camera angles and editing etc. So, as Geller do you:

A). Use the method that has served you well for over three decades, both in laboratories and on TV and which involves no visible gimmicks.

B). Abandon your successful method and instead use a gimmick that is phenomenally well known to magicians and put it on your thumb in a crass and obvious manner that no magician over the age of ten would be seen dead using, right in front of the cameras for the whole world to see. Further you then decide during the editing of the show to leave the evidence of your cheating in place.

Additionally, the thumb-tip that Geller supposedly uses in this clip is ridiculously large compared to those on the market and it has no need to be. These days magnets of sufficient strength to deflect a ships' compass are tiny and you could fit several in a normal sized thumb tip. What looks like Geller's elongated thumb in the original video is I believe a video artefact, as claimed. Besides which, close-up shots seem to show Geller's thumb looking perfectly normal, the over sized gimmick having magically vanished mid-trick.

Just after the original "Geller has been caught" video made the news magician Drew McAdam correctly predicted that Geller would move that same compass again the next week, but would take pains to show he had nothing on his thumbs etc. Lo and behold that's just what Geller does. Presumably using his tried and trusted method involving no visible gimmicks.

That leaves only a few possibilities:

1). Geller, (who despite any claims to the contrary knows what a thumb-tip is and how they are employed) decides to boost the viewing figures on his show by winding up magicians and sceptics with his blatant "look, I'm sticking something on my thumb" gesture; well knowing how that gesture will be interpreted by those supposedly 'in the know'. Returning the next week to disprove those silly theories. This I believe to be the most likely option.

2). The reaching behind his ear then grasping his thumb was a casual and innocent gesture, misinterpreted by others then capitalised on by Geller.

3). During rehearsals Geller found his normal method (foolproof for over 35 years) wouldn't work so he improvised by attaching a magnet to some flesh coloured sticky tape which he concealed behind his ear for the performance. It certainly wasn't a thumb-tip for the reasons noted above, plus you can't hide them behind your ear, they're too big. This doesn't hold much water as modern ceramic magnets are more than capable of deflecting such a compass when hidden in the mouth or hair etc. and if in doubt you can use two of them. This scenario also leaves us with the question as to why Geller would use such an obvious and visible method to put it on his thumb in the first place and why that gesture made it through the editing onto the televised show.


All in all I suspect that Uri has had the last laugh over this one.
 
The thing you are describing is basically the james hydric(sp?) thing, however, that does raise the big question of why did Uri Geller fight so hard to supress the movie?
 
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