Geier: Lupron for autism

'Cure' autism? why?
lets 'cure' black people of their blackness.
autism is part of who we are, it is not a disability or a disease that can be cured. sure it might be possible to get rid of some of the symptoms (Michael Jackson), but I really don't see the point, especially for higher functioning Aspies like me.:)
 
MattTheTubaGuy said:
'Cure' autism? why?
lets 'cure' black people of their blackness.
autism is part of who we are, it is not a disability or a disease that can be cured. sure it might be possible to get rid of some of the symptoms (Michael Jackson), but I really don't see the point, especially for higher functioning Aspies like me.:)
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Exactly.

By the way, if there's one thing I could do without, it's my difficulty with overseeing large plans.

But at least I have some compensation, such as extreme pedantism (I know, pedantry).
 
Eos of the Eons said:
He is a quack for the same reasons Geier is, similar to the reasons Wakefield is, and very very similar to the reasons Zambaloney is (Zamboni).
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And even if they are actually convinced of their position (wakefield wasn't, as far as I know), that doesn't give them any leeway to go ahead and give stuff to people who don't need it.

Good science weeds out bad science. Bad science doesn't take into account the possibility of being incorrect (or else they would be more rigorous in their tests).
 
randman said:
http://alasbimnjournal.cl/revistas/4/goldbergi.htm

you can find many more on the subject at the link below

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?s...on+syndrome+autism&hl=en&as_sdt=0,10&as_vis=1
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A single entry in a non-indexed journal with no impact factor that I could find? With Goldberg's claims, why shoot so low? Why not BMJ, Lancet, NEJM if his findings are so reproducible and ground-breaking? I'll tell you why, he's a self-appointed 'expurt' who is rectally-sourcing his rubbish. To give you some examples:
In the last decade, another type of autism has surfaced that is often referred to as "Autistic Syndrome." Children suffering from this disorder appear normal in the first 15-18 months of life. They do not present signs or symptoms pediatricians or neurologists would find atypical. These children create an inconsistency with previous held beliefs that 70-80% of autistic children are mentally retarded. They crawl, sit up, walk, and usually hit normal motor milestones on schedule. Up until the age of onset, they are affectionate and appear to have above average intelligence.
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Who does this wanker think he is? What he describes is already in the literature as regressive autism and he is also quite wrong about the presentation; he is painting with a very broad brush. No where does he cite Dr. Catherine Lord or Dr. Simon Baron-Cohen, two of some of the foremost authorities on regressive autism and autism respectively.

Here is more of his drivel which shows his ignorance:
From the Journal of Clinical Immunology and Immunopathology, Singh et al. hypothesized that autoimmunity secondary to a virus infection may best explain autism in some children (12). Congenital rubella virus (13) and congenital cytomegalovirus (14) have been indirectly involved as causative factors in autism. Researchers found evidence for autoimmunity as a possible mechanism to explain autism, based on a cellular immune response to myelin basic protein (15), antibodies against putative brain serotonin receptors(16), and neuron-axon filament proteins of the nerve cell. (17)
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Emphasis added. CRS (congenital rubella syndrome) is directly causative of autism, not indirectly and it involves the virus' direct attack on newly dividing cells hence multi-organ involvement with CRS, not autoantibodies.

The dysfunction / lack of blood flow can eventually lead to injury of nerve cells, which offers a possible explanation for the abnormal brain waves and the large numbers of autistic syndrome children suddenly being labeled as "Landau-Kleffner."
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WTH is he even talking about here? ASD children aren't suddenly being labelled with Landau-Kleffner. He is conflating some occasional misdiagnoses with widespread misdiagnoses. He is off on so many tangents, I can't even deduce what his point is other than to try and claim an already recognised diagnosis as his own by re-naming it. He offers a bunch of hand-waving mumbo jumbo. Is he trying to make a case for herpes simplex as a causative agent for autism because that isn't exactly difficult to diagnose so he isn't so special there. What's his "cure"? And no, I'm not buying his crap book; that's not how one shares valid medical findings. Bottom line, you're very naive at best.

Este
 
randman said:
The guy I linked is not the quack. He has had success treating autism. You guys want to ignore that, fine.

Here is his website.

http://www.neuroimmunedr.com/index.html
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Could you show the statistics of his success rate? I couldn't find them.
Thanks!

...testimonial snipped...
http://www.askdrmanny.com/dr-manny-r...hael-goldberg/
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Oh, randman, why didn't you actually read the articles at the site you've just linked up?
http://www.askdrmanny.com/dr-manny-scientists-say-autism-has-a-genetic-component-and-i-agree/
From 9 June 2011
After looking at the latest three studies led by researchers from Yale, Columbia and Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in New York, I have to believe, based on their data, that the genetic link that they have found in regards to autism is real and that it could lead to much more knowledge in the field and treatment of the disorder.

To me, one of the greatest puzzlements of autism is the high degree of spontaneity that it has among families. As you all know, I deliver babies for a living, and also run one of the largest obstetrical units in country, so I get a lot of feedback from families whose children were delivered with autism.

Whether it’s a vaginal delivery or a cesarean section, whether the father is young or old, whether the doctor uses general anesthesia or epidural anesthesia, or any other medical or lifestyle factor that could come into play, there never was a direct link to autism to be found in our experience.

And clearly, looking at the literature that has been published in the past in regards to autism, many of the factors that have typically been blamed for its development were never backed with any significant proof.

But when you look at a family that delivers twins, and one is autistic and the other is not, as a scientist, I have to believe there is a genetic component to the problem.

The studies, published in the journal Neuron, appear to have proven as much. The researchers examined the genomes of more than 1,000 families in which one child was autistic and the siblings and parents were not. Their findings confirmed a growing body of evidence that autism can be caused by a random genetic mutation that could occur at any one of hundreds of different sites in the human genome.

On behalf of my son, who was born with autism, and my family, I just want to congratulate the men and women who spent years working on this research. My hope is that the basic foundation of autism knowledge will continue to grow and provide relief to families who live with and who are affected by this disorder.
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No matter what label you put on it, Autism is a huge problem.
An epidemic is generally a widespread disease that affects many individuals in a population.
Whether we call it an increase, or not, 1 in 90 for boys, or 1 in 110 for girls equates to millions of kids.

encognitive.com/node/6150
 
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PJCom said:
No matter what label you put on it, Autism is a huge problem.
An epidemic is generally a widespread disease that affects many individuals in a population.
Whether we call it an increase, or not, 1 in 90 for boys, or 1 in 110 for girls equates to millions of kids.

encognitive.com/node/6150
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1/100 get schizophrenia after a relatively normal childhood. How come nobody is calling THAT an epidemic??
 
PJCom said:
No matter what label you put on it, Autism is a huge problem.
An epidemic is generally a widespread disease that affects many individuals in a population.
Whether we call it an increase, or not, 1 in 90 for boys, or 1 in 110 for girls equates to millions of kids.

encognitive.com/node/6150
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I think that is a bit harsh. Severe autism is incredibly distressing for both the parents and the individual with the condition but this is at the extreme of the spectrum. Most autistic people are a good few steps away from that position and are functioning members of society. To call them a huge problem is neither accurate or particularly empathetic.


My mother is autistic and in her late 70s. In her youth in the 1930s and 40s she was just considered odd and as she got older she matured from odd to eccentric. Both my kids are on the spectrum and my daughter was much more noticeably affected and diagnosed with Aspergers when she was about 7. My sister's eldest boy (boy? sheesh, he is 30) also has Aspergers. Not that this has stopped him working since he left school and doing pretty well for himself. The run of cases in the family from the 1930s and before would suggest genetics to me and some of the quack cures discussed above frankly make my blood run cold.

My eldest went to Uni and studied computer science and is part of a group that writes code for some cloud computing gaming community (a bit Big Bang Theory the lot of them but they seem to be nice people) and my daughter is at Art School. Her ability to focus on her work to the exclusion of all else is remarkable but she has made some real friends and has also learned the noble art of how to party.

ASD is not in itself a problem. Most with an ASD condition are fully functioning members of society. Those so severely affected as to be unable to function do have a problem. If these treatments genuinely have an efficacy then perhaps it can be demonstrated that they have brought relief to the profoundly autistic rather than just those who can be helped with simple mental tool kits to assist in unlocking the complexities of other peoples reactions and emotional responses.

In short, I'm mostly sceptical on these cures.
 
Hi. It's me again. The newbie.

NogBad:

It is healthy to be skeptical. And in this day and age, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here when I say that there is a tremendous amount of information, disinformation, hidden agendas and manipulation.

I am 58 and also am quite familiar with the full range of autism, having 2 brothers with it, and a nephew. I am also a teacher who has been exposed to autistic and mentally impaired kids.

I will go on the record as saying I am anti-thimerisol, and against the full compacted schedule of vaccines prior to the age of two. The current schedule calls for over 30 shots.

The only reason I mention any of this is to say I believe myself to be cautious, skeptical, and aware. I believe my intuition is good, and I feel I know when someone is telling a lie, and when techniques are used in arguments to inflame, mislead, and to smear.

For instance, the use of the word 'quack', or labeling someone 'conspiracy theorist', or 'whacko' are techniques to perform ad hominem attacks, and simply discredit the argument of the person using the terms.

I am not here to defend the Geier's, specifically. (I don't know them or have any patients with them). If you want to know what the Lupron Technique is and why they invented it, and why they are using it, and why the results are what they are, simply view their videos.

Decide for yourself. I do not believe it is quackery, but because these techniques are breaking new ground, and because there is an implied criticism thimerisol and vaccines, the Geiers are huge targets for slander, and labeling.

The Geier's explanation of the Lupron Technique
(Add the prefix to these below)

autismmedia.org/geiersnaa1w.html

One of the Parent's (Actually more informative)
autismmedia.org/sykesbio2w.html

The parents will tell you they are not 'desperate' to try anything that comes along.
The analytical process is very thorough and un-rushed.
They are educated and looking for answers which the main stream medical industry is not giving them.

Call me whatever you will. I find them credible.
If you have an open mind, you will see they are not Nazi, child castration officers of the gestapo that this forum is making them out to be.

Lupron is temporary, lasts only as long as it is administered, and it is made to decrease testosterone which is a factor is autism. It has many approved purposes. This forum chose to use the one most inflammatory, and shocking.

And yes, their license was suspended in Maryland, with other states following. I acknowledge that. At the same time, the United Nation is adopting a mercury free policy based in part on presentations from the Geiers. There are situations still in play from a legal, industry, and international perspective.

I wouldn't count them out just yet.

For those who can get past the ad hominem attacks, you can make up your own mind.
 
PJCom said:
No matter what label you put on it, Autism is a huge problem.
An epidemic is generally a widespread disease that affects many individuals in a population.
Whether we call it an increase, or not, 1 in 90 for boys, or 1 in 110 for girls equates to millions of kids.

encognitive.com/node/6150
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An epidemic is the number of cases above the expected number of cases. Changes in diagnostic criteria and greater awareness are the reasons for the increase in ASD diagnoses, not that there is an increase in those affected.

Este
 
PJCom said:
Hi. It's me again. The newbie.

NogBad:

It is healthy to be skeptical. And in this day and age, I don't think I'm going out on a limb here when I say that there is a tremendous amount of information, disinformation, hidden agendas and manipulation.

I am 58 and also am quite familiar with the full range of autism, having 2 brothers with it, and a nephew. I am also a teacher who has been exposed to autistic and mentally impaired kids.

I will go on the record as saying I am anti-thimerisol, and against the full compacted schedule of vaccines prior to the age of two. The current schedule calls for over 30 shots.
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And your evidence for this being responsible for your so-called autism epidemic is?

The only reason I mention any of this is to say I believe myself to be cautious, skeptical, and aware. I believe my intuition is good, and I feel I know when someone is telling a lie, and when techniques are used in arguments to inflame, mislead, and to smear.
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Many parents believe that their children became autistic after a vaccine, i.e. their intuition. However, video tapes of their children's earlier development demonstrated behaviours that went undetected by parents and professionals. Intuition isn't worth much unless you can verify it with actual evidence.
For instance, the use of the word 'quack', or labeling someone 'conspiracy theorist', or 'whacko' are techniques to perform ad hominem attacks, and simply discredit the argument of the person using the terms.

I am not here to defend the Geier's, specifically. (I don't know them or have any patients with them). If you want to know what the Lupron Technique is and why they invented it, and why they are using it, and why the results are what they are, simply view their videos.
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That isn't very sceptical of you. Do you really want to know what their basis is for using Lupron? It's all based upon a study from the 1960's paper (Cooper A, Gopalakrishna EM, Norton DA. The crystal structure and absolute configuration of the 2:1 complex between testosterone and mercuric chloride. Acta Crystallogr B. 1968 Jul 15;24(7):935-41.) regarding testosterone and mercury. The Geiers' rationale is that testosterone forms "sheets" in the brain when complexed with mercury and they can cure that with the one-two punch of Lupron and chelation. What they fail to mention is that paper was about crystal structures formed with testosterone and mercury when boiled in benzene. That is hardly a condition found in vivo.
Decide for yourself. I do not believe it is quackery, but because these techniques are breaking new ground, and because there is an implied criticism thimerisol and vaccines, the Geiers are huge targets for slander, and labeling.
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Why haven't YOU provided any valid evidence of safety and efficacy beyond the Geiers own self-promoting side-show act and testimonials? Again, how sceptical is that?


The parents will tell you they are not 'desperate' to try anything that comes along.
The analytical process is very thorough and un-rushed.
They are educated and looking for answers which the main stream medical industry is not giving them.

Call me whatever you will. I find them credible.
If you have an open mind, you will see they are not Nazi, child castration officers of the gestapo that this forum is making them out to be.
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You have clearly not seen what these parents do to their children in the name of curing "vaccine damage". Chemical castration, HBOT, restrictive diets, immunoglobulins, secretin, un-tested supplements, chelation, faecal "transplants". No, that's real educated and not desperate. :rolleyes:

Lupron is temporary, lasts only as long as it is administered, and it is made to decrease testosterone which is a factor is autism. It has many approved purposes. This forum chose to use the one most inflammatory, and shocking.
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Evidence that testosterone removal is an autism cure please. It is chemical castration and horrific testing of special needs children. Call it what you like to make you sleep better and defend these monsters but it is what it is.

And yes, their license was suspended in Maryland, with other states following. I acknowledge that. At the same time, the United Nation is adopting a mercury free policy based in part on presentations from the Geiers. There are situations still in play from a legal, industry, and international perspective.
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The U.N. isn't doing anything based upon anything to do with the Geiers, fanboy.

I wouldn't count them out just yet.
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Papa Geier is losing his license to practise in more and more states and investigations will undoubtedly turn up some criminal charges against both; I wouldn't hold my breath for a stunning comeback by that dynamic duo.

For those who can get past the ad hominem attacks, you can make up your own mind.
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I have made up my own mind, based upon the over-whelming evidence against them and I still choose to consider them quacks, charlatans and snake-oil salesmen for very good reason.

Este
 
August 2011. The Geier's are invited to participate in the

Third session of the intergovernmental negotiating committee to prepare a
global legally binding instrument on mercury. Nairobi, 31 October to 4
November 2011.
 
The parents will tell you they are not 'desperate' to try anything that comes along.
The analytical process is very thorough and un-rushed.
They are educated and looking for answers which the main stream medical industry is not giving them.

Call me whatever you will. I find them credible.
If you have an open mind, you will see they are not Nazi, child castration officers of the gestapo that this forum is making them out to be.
Click to expand...
I see where you are coming from here, at least I feel I do. I'm not saying they're bad people as such, they truly want what's best for their kid, and in their desperation, and without critical thinking skills, they jump to methods that either do not work, or do more harm than good.

The reason we're so mad at them is that, well... the consequences can be rather severe. Have you read or seen The Sum of All Fears? Remember how all the actions in the film, up to and including starting a full-scale nuclear war, made perfect sense to the men who carried them out? Think back to the scene where the Russian bomber pilots sink the carrier in the North Sea. Were they bad people? No, they were full of emotion and fed lies from a person they thought they could trust, and they obeyed without question because that was what they were trained to do.

You may say it's an inappropriate analogy, but it makes the point. When people who either can't analyze things critically, or choose not to, make decisions with severe ramifications... naturally this makes people upset. When it comes down to it, a death is a death, regardless of the cause. A kid killed by a madman with a gun is as dead as a kid killed by a failure to administer vaccination.
 
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