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Geier: Lupron for autism

jimtron

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Mar 9, 2005
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Los Angeles, California
Good article from the Chicago Tribune on Mark Geier's latest shenanigans.

Desperate to help their autistic children, hundreds of parents nationwide are turning to an unproven and potentially damaging treatment: multiple high doses of a drug sometimes used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

The therapy is based on a theory, unsupported by mainstream medicine, that autism is caused by a harmful link between mercury and testosterone. Children with autism have too much of the hormone, according to the theory, and a drug called Lupron can fix that.

"Lupron is the miracle drug," Dr. Mark Geier of Maryland said after meeting with an autistic patient in suburban Chicago.
The Lupron protocol adds a new twist to the thimerosal theory. According to the Geiers, who filed for at least one patent on their therapy, many autistic children have not only toxic mercury in their system, but also high testosterone that causes early, or "precocious," puberty.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has approved Lupron to treat precocious puberty, an extremely rare disorder that involves finding signs of puberty in very young girls and boys.

Lupron is also used to treat prostate cancer in men, to treat endometriosis in women, and to chemically castrate sex offenders.

To treat an autistic child, the Geiers order $12,000 in lab tests, more than 50 in all. Some measure hormone levels. If at least one testosterone-related level falls outside the lab's reference range, the Geiers consider beginning injections of Lupron. The daily dose is 10 times the amount American doctors use to treat precocious puberty.
Neither Eisenstein nor the Geiers dispute that what they are doing amounts to chemical castration.
Looking at the tests, Kaplowitz said he asks himself: "Is Dr. Geier just misinformed and he hasn't studied endocrinology, or is he trying to mislead?"

Mark Geier responded that these are "opinions by people who don't know what they are talking about," saying the pediatric endocrinologists interviewed by the Tribune don't treat autistic children and have not tried the Lupron treatment. David Geier said prominent scientists support their work and gave as an example Baron-Cohen, the autism expert who told the Tribune that the Geiers' Lupron treatment filled him with horror.

P.S. I meant to post this in the science etc forum...
 
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Oh, this is even worse than the anti-vaccine insanity. Autism is a frightening thing for any parent to face, but to give such an incredibly high dose of a powerful hormone to CHILDREN based on so little, and totally incorrect, information defies understanding.
 
Hmm. Conspiracy possibilities. These doctors are purposely making sure autistic kids never grow up and have any kids of their own. Therefore, they know it is genetic and are trying to stop the increasing numbers of autistics in the world (even though there are still more schizophrenics in the world, /rant).
More here about Geier articles:
http://www.neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/109

And about that specific treatment and how the paper was retracted:
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/116
Given the many omissions and irregularities in this article, it would seem appropriate for the Editorial Board of Autoimmunity Reviews to request clarification of these issues from Dr. and Mr. Geier. It would also seem appropriate to disclose whether Dr. Gershwin recused himself from any role in reviewing or preparing this article for publication.

Unethical antivax doctors (DAN-who also do chelation) will support them to profit off a treatment that parents of autistic children are willing to get after lambasting other doctors for being so stupid (not offering bogus cures for their kids).

I wonder what Baren-Cohen (proponent of "extreme male-braine" theory of autism) really thinks of chemically castrating autistic children. His theory may have promted the Geiers to come up with bogus treatment, but I'm not sure he supports it.


Turns out he DOES NOT support it:

Simon Baron-Cohen, a professor of developmental psychopathology at the University of Cambridge in England and director of the Autism Research Center in Cambridge, said it is irresponsible to treat autistic children with Lupron.

"The idea of using it with vulnerable children with autism, who do not have a life-threatening disease and pose no danger to anyone, without a careful trial to determine the unwanted side effects or indeed any benefits, fills me with horror," he said.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-autism-lupron-may21,0,242705.story


Hooray for this media source! They got most of the story of the story for once! Thank you for posting it jimtrom :)
 
Why do we allow doctors to do things like this?
Well, they've convinced parents that their children need it. Buyer beware. Of course, being MDs, they should have their licenses pulled for all the lying about how Baron-Cohen supports it, for all the lying about how the treatment is effective for curing autism when it is not, etc. Their ethics are in question, as well as the treatment.

But, they have gotten away with it for over ten years because they have been "experts" in the court system, and supported by autistic parents duped by them. Are you gonna wanna be the bad guy who pulls the plug on them? Are they just then going to pull the "other doctors are jealous of our success" game that all the unethical crazy doctors pull once evidence come to light that they are full of crappola.

Kids with autism usually do improve with time, and parents are convinced their kids benefitted from it. They don't believe the Geiers are doing anythng wrong, and they WANT this for their kids. It is going to be impossible to convince them that this isn't a witch hunt against the poor Geiers. So, in their eyes, they are victims of mean "big pharma", just like Wakefield is? Cuz, somehow, "big pharma" isn't profititing off these treatments and want parents to have no options, and want parents to believe vaccines aren't to blame for their childrens' autism. All a part of the big "picture" they have come to have painted in their minds on this issue.

http://beatautism.18.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=12 (wonder if these parents would denounce them now?)

Um, wait, who makes Lupron?

Hey, this board used to quote them as experts all the time, and now the parents are mad:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?p=13808577

They liked the Geiers' "research" but not their treatment?


And they are wondering why McCarthy supports them. Pfft.

I bet if Lupron they used was claimed to be a "natural' form of the concoction (like bioidentical hormones are claimed to be more natural than animal hormones) then these parents would be more outraged. Hm. Wonder if the Geiers will come up with "safe" alternative for their treatment of autistic kids now? Something they will claim is herbal or "the natural form" of Lupron?

Will this story fizzle and die or will the Geiers finally be stopped?
 
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I honestly don't understand how, what is really off-label use, these Lupron 'treatments' have not come under the scrutiny of the AMA and FDA. These are bogus diagnoses of precocious puberty, so the Geiers' are knowingly duping insurance companies. Perhaps it will take insurance companies investigating and ceasing reimbursement for this to stop being used, or at least slowed down.
 
I think it is because their bogus studies, now under fire, lent them some air of legitimacy. That, and happy customers? They are very well supported, and go to antivax autism seminars, and speak, and were big as experts in antivax court cases. There are very few complaints about them, and nobody has died from the Lupron treatments.

Off label use is not a big no no if the treatments seem to help rather than harm.
http://druganddevicelaw.blogspot.com/2009/04/off-label-use-and-medical-malpractice.html

Usually the off label use is for the "good" side effects of the drug? That, and for not using for something not too far from its intended use? Wellbutrin is used to help people to stop smoking and as antidepressant, but the effect on the brain is why it helps for both. I think it was used off label for a while for one reason, but the evidence and subsequent testing allowed it to be approved for use, under a different name, for the other.
Bupropion is a medicine that was first developed to treat depression. It was found that it helped smokers to stop smoking. It is not clear how it works. It alters the level of some chemicals in the brain (neurotransmitters). This seems to relieve the withdrawal symptoms that you get when you stop smoking (such as craving, anxiety, restlessness, headaches, irritability, hunger, difficulty with concentration, or just feeling awful).
http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/23069089/


The Geiers would be well aware that some research (their own biased research, then attempted to get peer-reviewed, but then retracted) would allow them to use this drug for that purpose. They also really knew their target audience was looking for cures for autism. They also knew how others (DAN doctors) were so successful when hawking autism cures, and how parents would support them since ethical doctors were unpopular when saying there was no cure for autism, etc. Look at how famous Wakefield got too!

They made a ton of money, got to speak as experts, etc. It was win-win! Takes a lot to then disprove and stop them. They have been hailed as the ones who dare to support the autism vaccine "theory", and offer a treatment to desperate parents. They got a lot of attention and support for that. It may finally be proven otherwise, but that takes a lot of time and resources. You can't just say they are wrong, you have to prove it. And you have to have time to gather that proof and show how it doesn't really help. The FDA does have these resources, but it takes time.
edona7:Oh, this is even worse than the anti-vaccine insanity. Autism is a frightening thing for any parent to face, but to give such an incredibly high dose of a powerful hormone to CHILDREN based on so little, and totally incorrect, information defies understanding.

It is the antivaccine insanity that allowed this to happen. They appealed to antivaxxers. They got money for testifying that vaccines cause harm. They used this platform to garner support for their treatment.


Dr. Mark Geier has, he says, solved the riddle of autism. He says he has identified its cause and, in the powerful drug Lupron, found an effective treatment -- what he calls a "major discovery."

But behind Geier's bold assertion is a troubling paper trail that undercuts his portrayal of himself as a pioneer tilting against a medical establishment that refuses to embrace his novel ideas.

Time and again, reputable scientists have dismissed autism research by Geier and his son, David, as seriously flawed. Judges who have heard Mark Geier testify about vaccines' harmful effects have repeatedly called him unqualified, with one describing his statements as "intellectually dishonest."

"Dr. Geier may be clever," another wrote, "but he is not credible."...

...The Geiers have won support from the parents of autistic children who share their suspicion of the medical community, even though mainline scientists criticize their views. Parents who have used the Lupron treatment also praise the Geiers, and Mark Geier said scores of severely autistic children are improving steadily...


...Abbott Laboratories, which sells Lupron in the U.S., once applied for a patent with the Geiers through a now-defunct joint venture with another drug company, yet never pursued work with them. A spokeswoman for the North Chicago-based company said there was no scientific evidence to justify further research...

...The Geiers are not dissuaded by the criticism. Mark Geier said the courts are biased against him and that the medical establishment is more concerned about preserving drug companies' profits than about protecting children. "There's no question this will turn out to be true," Mark Geier said in an interview, referring to the vaccine-autism connection.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-autism-lupron-geiers-may21,0,983359.story
They are just like Wakefield. Wakefield used the same tactic to push his single shot MMR vaccines. It backfired on him too, with most parents refusing to get any vaccines. You will still find parents delaying vaccines instead though, and looking for the single shots.
 
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n sounds interesting... care to elaborate *grins*

Well, once a boat, especially a wooden boat, has been at sea for a while, its underside become encrusted with barnacles...

A rope would be looped under the keel of the ship from one side to the other, and the unfortunate soul would be tied to it, thrown into the water, and hauled by a crew of men to the other side.

If you were hauled fast, you would not be able to avoid contact with the very sharp barnacles and shipworms, and you would be sliced to ribbons. You MIGHT survive, but generally an officer would do this as an example to others not as a means of correcting an individual seaman, who he wrote off before he issued the order.
 
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Please excuse my newness to your forum. For those who have posted thousands of times, I am humbled by your prolific dedication to this forum. I would however like to represent the dissenting view on this issue with Dr. Geier. Although I do not have any patients with Dr. Geier or affiliated in any way, he represents an increasing number of professionals and parents who recognize that the pharmaceutical companies are not your friend.

I don't have any personal experience with Lupron, however there is a long list of "shenanigans" that have been played out over many years by the Drug industry. Even if Dr. Geier is not right on this issue, that certainly doesn't let the vaccine / pharmaceutical companies off the hook.

I know first hand the life long heartbreaking situations that are caused by autism, that can never be undone. The drug companies are quick to point out that it 'isnt them!'. We heard the same story over and over again for Vioxx, cigarettes, and dozens of other denials that have cost the medical / pharmaceutical companies hundreds of millions in fines.

If you personally haven't experienced autism, I gently ask that you be cautious with your criticism. There seems to be a lot of finger pointing and labeling going on. These are not the tools of solution finding human beings. These are the tools of alarmists and smear campaigns.

Once again until you have a brother, sister, or god forbid a child with autism, I humbly request that you temper your judgment. From the presentations that I have seen on the internet, I find Dr. Geier credible and working in good faith.

This is my opinion, and I hope you never have to personally experience the horror of this epidemic. Once again, I appreciate all of you who have posted thousands of time. wow.
 
Please excuse my newness to your forum. For those who have posted thousands of times, I am humbled by your prolific dedication to this forum. I would however like to represent the dissenting view on this issue with Dr. Geier. Although I do not have any patients with Dr. Geier or affiliated in any way, he represents an increasing number of professionals and parents who recognize that the pharmaceutical companies are not your friend.

I don't have any personal experience with Lupron, however there is a long list of "shenanigans" that have been played out over many years by the Drug industry. Even if Dr. Geier is not right on this issue, that certainly doesn't let the vaccine / pharmaceutical companies off the hook.

I know first hand the life long heartbreaking situations that are caused by autism, that can never be undone. The drug companies are quick to point out that it 'isnt them!'. We heard the same story over and over again for Vioxx, cigarettes, and dozens of other denials that have cost the medical / pharmaceutical companies hundreds of millions in fines.

If you personally haven't experienced autism, I gently ask that you be cautious with your criticism. There seems to be a lot of finger pointing and labeling going on. These are not the tools of solution finding human beings. These are the tools of alarmists and smear campaigns.

Once again until you have a brother, sister, or god forbid a child with autism, I humbly request that you temper your judgment. From the presentations that I have seen on the internet, I find Dr. Geier credible and working in good faith.

This is my opinion, and I hope you never have to personally experience the horror of this epidemic. Once again, I appreciate all of you who have posted thousands of time. wow.
Let me see if I follow your logic:
Pharmaceutical industry = bad
Autism = horrible
Therefore: quack autism treatments = good
:boggled:
 
Please excuse my newness to your forum. For those who have posted thousands of times, I am humbled by your prolific dedication to this forum. I would however like to represent the dissenting view on this issue with Dr. Geier. Although I do not have any patients with Dr. Geier or affiliated in any way, he represents an increasing number of professionals and parents who recognize that the pharmaceutical companies are not your friend.

And that's why he's selling Lupron, a pharmaceutical product made by those companies?
 
From the presentations that I have seen on the internet, I find Dr. Geier credible and working in good faith.

Really? and how??? Do you know what Lupron is, for starters? That alone should tell you something about Geier and his "credibility".
 
Please excuse my newness to your forum. For those who have posted thousands of times, I am humbled by your prolific dedication to this forum. I would however like to represent the dissenting view on this issue with Dr. Geier. Although I do not have any patients with Dr. Geier or affiliated in any way, he represents an increasing number of professionals and parents who recognize that the pharmaceutical companies are not your friend.

I don't have any personal experience with Lupron, however there is a long list of "shenanigans" that have been played out over many years by the Drug industry. Even if Dr. Geier is not right on this issue, that certainly doesn't let the vaccine / pharmaceutical companies off the hook.

I know first hand the life long heartbreaking situations that are caused by autism, that can never be undone. The drug companies are quick to point out that it 'isnt them!'. We heard the same story over and over again for Vioxx, cigarettes, and dozens of other denials that have cost the medical / pharmaceutical companies hundreds of millions in fines.

If you personally haven't experienced autism, I gently ask that you be cautious with your criticism. There seems to be a lot of finger pointing and labeling going on. These are not the tools of solution finding human beings. These are the tools of alarmists and smear campaigns.

Once again until you have a brother, sister, or god forbid a child with autism, I humbly request that you temper your judgment. From the presentations that I have seen on the internet, I find Dr. Geier credible and working in good faith.

This is my opinion, and I hope you never have to personally experience the horror of this epidemic. Once again, I appreciate all of you who have posted thousands of time. wow.

I know someone with autism, and I speak wholeheartedly....

Against any "treatments", excluding therapies to help people deal with it.

You might think that, since there have been problems in the pharmaceutical business, you can't trust them.

Have you tried some logic on that? I hear it really creases out the paranoia issues.


Oh, and before you go out saying "How can you say this when you know someone with autism?"

I am that person.

Cheers
 
Please excuse my newness to your forum. For those who have posted thousands of times, I am humbled by your prolific dedication to this forum. I would however like to represent the dissenting view on this issue with Dr. Geier. Although I do not have any patients with Dr. Geier or affiliated in any way, he represents an increasing number of professionals and parents who recognize that the pharmaceutical companies are not your friend.
No, the Geiers do not represent a growing number of anyone except charlatans who blithely take advantage of desperate parents and lining their wallets by dangerous and revolting experimentation on special needs children.

I don't have any personal experience with Lupron, however there is a long list of "shenanigans" that have been played out over many years by the Drug industry. Even if Dr. Geier is not right on this issue, that certainly doesn't let the vaccine / pharmaceutical companies off the hook.
This is a Tu Quoque fallacy. Seedy pharmaceutical practises are not justification for the likes of the Geiers to intentionally misdiagnose children with precocious puberty, chemically-castrate them with Lupron and chelate them.

I know first hand the life long heartbreaking situations that are caused by autism, that can never be undone. The drug companies are quick to point out that it 'isnt them!'. We heard the same story over and over again for Vioxx, cigarettes, and dozens of other denials that have cost the medical / pharmaceutical companies hundreds of millions in fines.
And the big difference here is that sound science prevailed and exposed industry-driven false results. Dozens of studies and counting cannot find any association between vaccines and autism. Most of these not even performed by the pharmaceutical industry. Before you condemn autism as a death sentence, the very perilous attitude that drives parents into the arms of quacks like the Geiers, you may want to open your eyes and actually understand what autism is and how many are around you happily functioning and productive, successful members of our societies.

If you personally haven't experienced autism, I gently ask that you be cautious with your criticism. There seems to be a lot of finger pointing and labeling going on. These are not the tools of solution finding human beings. These are the tools of alarmists and smear campaigns.

Once again until you have a brother, sister, or god forbid a child with autism, I humbly request that you temper your judgment. From the presentations that I have seen on the internet, I find Dr. Geier credible and working in good faith.

This is my opinion, and I hope you never have to personally experience the horror of this epidemic. Once again, I appreciate all of you who have posted thousands of time. wow.
There is no caution required when criticising fiends like the Geiers and the so-called medical practises of their colleagues. If you find the Geiers so credible, then why are they under investigation and Daddy Geier losing his license to practise in so many states? Cue the conspiracy theories.

There is no autism epidemic and no "horror" about autism. What a dreadful portrayal of human beings you present.

Este
 
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I know someone with autism, and I speak wholeheartedly....

Against any "treatments", excluding therapies to help people deal with it.

You might think that, since there have been problems in the pharmaceutical business, you can't trust them.

Have you tried some logic on that? I hear it really creases out the paranoia issues.


Oh, and before you go out saying "How can you say this when you know someone with autism?"

I am that person.

Cheers

Well, you just saved me writing the exact same post, thanks for that!:)
 

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