Gates Foundation admits Common Core Mistake. What now?

[Minoosh]

Tens place and ones place - seems like it was introduced very early in my school career. It was called regrouping. I'm not sure why this is considered inappropriate for second graders. You don't have to make a big deal out of it being base 10, though, if that's the issue.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Then he corrected himself.

Does this bother you?

Nope. I'd be happy for him and even retract everything I said in order to get it back on topic.

States are in all manner of difference relative to the so-called Common Core. Some had nothing to do with it. Some have partially implemented. Some fully, but in cases like Massachusetts have withdrawn.

ESSA prohibited making federal funds contingent on compliance to a standard. That is how they got over 40 states to sign up for Race to the Top money. But there is no more stimulus bill money. Bill Gates quit. There is no Common Core.

Sorry I have mixed up a couple of standards between K/1 and 2. Look at the video above, and there are more by the same Stanford Prof who was on the validation committee.

At the lower level, in just counting, you don't need to know tens vs. ones. Later on, yes. And counting by tens.

 

[Joey McGee]

Gates never said what you said he said. This thread is ********.

 

[AdamSK]

One hopes that in a discussion the participants have some tiny morsel of initiative, some ability to look things up for themselves.

I'm familiar with the PISA scale. The purpose of my question was to demonstrate your double standard. You are endlessly critical of Common Core but you accept PISA uncritically. Have you done anywhere near the amount of research into PISA to determine how accurate of an assessment it is or whether it's appropriate for evaluating student performance and different grade levels?

 

[AdamSK]

lol. All you know is that "something" was written in 2010. Obviously you have never seen it.

I have read the math standards, not the English standards.

 

[Belz...]

Yes, exactly.

That is why memorizing that ten is one unit of tens and one unit of ones is developmentally inappropriate when you are learning to count.

You can count to 100 just fine without being forced to memorize anything about "tens" vs. "ones".

That's what happens when you want nobody to fail, lowing the standards rather than creating specialised classes for those who can't follow the regular courses.

 

[Belz...]

I don't think it is.

Then please explain how I can "understand" that 12 x 4 = 48.

 

[Roboramma]

Then please explain how I can "understand" that 12 x 4 = 48.

12x4 = 10x4 + 2x4.

40 is defined at 4x10. That's a definition.
So 12x4 = 40 + 2x4.

2x4 is defined as 4+4.
4+4 = 4+1+1+1+1
5 is defined as 4+1
6 is defined as 5+1
7 is defined as 6+1
8 is defined as 7+1
So 2x4 = 8

So 12x4 = 40 +8
48 is defined as 40 + 8
So 12 x 4 = 48

It's easier to memorise 4x10 and 4x2 and add them together, though. But we don't need to memorise 4x12. Once you understand how multiplication works you can multiply much larger numbers easily.
It may still make sense to memorise 4x12 or higher numbers because to a point it can help with speed of calculation. A certain amount of memorisation can get you calculating (simple calculations) faster than a calculator, which I think is still a good skill to have.

So I think understanding concepts and memorisation go hand in hand.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

So I think understanding concepts and memorisation go hand in hand.

This is obvious on the face of it, but thank you for a demonstration.

Adam you aren't asking me a coherent question. Just complaining I mentioned PISA scores. I fail to see the conclusion you are drawing. Common Core is good because I am not critical of PISA tests?

Those are the international tests we have. In domestic standardized testing we have ACT, SAT, the NAEP and some others - but there aren't a lot of international tests historically. How else am I to compare our international performance if not on international tests?

And we are getting our asses kicked, especially on a per dollar spent basis. When you spend more than anyone and come in at the back of the pack - it is a national tragedy. We were once a world leader.

So now that Common Core has been abandoned by the party principals and quality education systems, now that ESSA makes it plain nobody is subject to it...what now?

 

[AdamSK]

Those are the international tests we have. In domestic standardized testing we have ACT, SAT, the NAEP and some others - but there aren't a lot of international tests historically. How else am I to compare our international performance if not on international tests?

You are saying that it's very important that there is a common test that everybody agrees to use so that we can compare performance between different locations.

That's an interesting argument. Where have I heard that before?

 

[marplots]

12x4 = 10x4 + 2x4.

40 is defined at 4x10. That's a definition.
So 12x4 = 40 + 2x4.

2x4 is defined as 4+4.
4+4 = 4+1+1+1+1
5 is defined as 4+1
6 is defined as 5+1
7 is defined as 6+1
8 is defined as 7+1
So 2x4 = 8

So 12x4 = 40 +8
48 is defined as 40 + 8
So 12 x 4 = 48

It's easier to memorise 4x10 and 4x2 and add them together, though. But we don't need to memorise 4x12. Once you understand how multiplication works you can multiply much larger numbers easily.
It may still make sense to memorise 4x12 or higher numbers because to a point it can help with speed of calculation. A certain amount of memorisation can get you calculating (simple calculations) faster than a calculator, which I think is still a good skill to have.

So I think understanding concepts and memorisation go hand in hand.

I remember a certain amount of "relearning" math when I took up programming. The rote memorization had to be replaced with an algorithmic view instead. I can see how giving kids this perspective early would make programming much easier later on.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

I have read the math standards, not the English standards.

Then cite the standard you want to talk about. As it was printed on the date you claim and not the 2016 website. The exact text. For your state or any one of them that stepped on board in 2010. We've used Kentucky as an example, but I am fine with any of them. Pick first grade or something. Mine will get to first grade in a couple months.

Hint: there's posts of mine dating to back then that will explain why you can't even complete this task.

 

[AdamSK]

Then cite the standard you want to talk about.

I want to talk about the claims you keep making that schools were trying to implement standards that hadn't been written.

So tell me what it is you claim a state was trying to do in math in 2010 that they couldn't do because they had adopted something that didn't exist?

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

You are saying that it's very important that there is a common test that everybody agrees to use so that we can compare performance between different locations.

That's an interesting argument. Where have I heard that before?

You have not made an argument. I can't complete it for you. That is your responsibility.

There is no common core, it never came to fruition and the force by which it was to be held together has been vacated by the Every Student Succeeds Act. The world's richest man, the energy and funding behind the movement has quit. His Foundation spent billions of dollars sustaining it in the past and what is the budget in 2016? Zero as a practical matter.

It's a bizarre propriety. The National Governor's Association and the Council of Chief State School Officers are Non-profits controlled by their membership. They hold the copyright to what is called the Common Core Standards. Gates paid them (grants) to act as vehicles for the copyright.

I don't know if Gates is still funding them, he's lost interest in the whole thing. It's why I have raised the subject. What states do remain on various versions or non-versions of the core have no driving force or money behind them. No Foundation or federal money. How do they modify it in light of falling math scores? It isn't clear who is in charge of Common Core without Bill Gates continuing to fund the NGA and CCSSO to do it, and he has announced his retirement. Nobody has to listen to whoever is in charge anyway.

The Common Core website assures us that any revisions will be based on "research and evidence". Wow, that's such a detailed assessment/revision program!

 

[Minoosh]

What now.

That's what matters to me.

Working with whatever resources we have we continue to teach children to count, add, subtract, multiply and divide, to recognize shapes and patterns, to sound out words, to begin rudimentary writing etc. They can only be taught partway using any given method or ideology. For example, using phonics and "decodables" requires lying to children as developmentally appropriate. We use materials designed to leverage phonics. If we start by bogging them down with all the exceptions in phonics we'd paralyze ourselves or go back to "Dick and Jane" whole-word torture.

If kids are fluent in counting to 20, they can use that many blocks or tiddlywinks or whatever to model addition in some scenario based on play. That's concept. Memorizing addition facts up to 20 seems doable in 2nd grade. That's all you need to transition to familiar borrowing-and-carrying algorithms which is a form of regrouping. It will make developmental sense to some kids earlier than others. Low-stakes drilling, letting kids hear, say and see the answer, fixing their own papers if we want. Reinforce the facts in several forms. Visual kids may visualize an equation; verbal kids may remember a sentence. I kind of envision digits hanging there, in the ones column, awaiting a decision: If we add 3 and 4 we are done with that column; if we add 9 and 8 we're not.

Common Core is not the first fad that's been jumped on and found to be flawed. The road to education reform is paved with good intentions. Every single approach is flawed. So don't use single approaches. Curriculum is a moving target almost by definition; course correction midstream is all but unavoidable. IMO.

Think how different it must be to teach Chinese students to write. Is there such a thing as phonics? Does the need to remember hundreds of characters contribute to the ability to memorize "math facts"? I constantly look up stuff like this and obviously love to discuss it.

 

[Minoosh]

I don't know if Gates is still funding them, he's lost interest in the whole thing.

I noticed a charter with a sign that said "A Microsoft school." It's the only place I've seen it directly trumpeted. I don't have an opinion on Bill Gates but at some point he was interested in trying out smaller pilot schools. It didn't sound like he was planning a takeover of the U.S. education system.

I reserve my wrath for John Dewey. He's responsible for the Turkish alphabet.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

What now.

Hey! Someone showed up to the topic!

Thank you.

Working with whatever resources we have we continue to teach children to count, add, subtract, multiply and divide,

....brevity snip...

Well we mean what now with the core. Are you in a partial implemented or full implemented state, have you left or what is your state if you don't mind saying?

 

[Minoosh]

Well we mean what now with the core. Are you in a partial implemented or full implemented state, have you left or what is your state if you don't mind saying?

No one ever invested in a bunch of materials. We have sets of the old textbooks and use them as resources sometimes. There's an emphasis on mixing things up - approaching problems different ways, trying new technology, peer-on-peer interaction, games, labs (the mental meatball experiment), combined with having to stay after school if they are making a C or D. So, a fair amount of Common Core-like ideas, but the curriculum coach has always done things this way. I am a paraprofessional and have the luxury of working with small groups. If I see their work I can spot misconceptions in real time which is helpful. This is a charter school; they have their pluses and minuses but in general I think they do a pretty good job.

There was a push toward online testing but I think it was only peripherally related to Common Core. The school wanted to leverage Khan Academy and IXL Math resources which is great as long as students are using scratch paper and doing the math instead of staring at the screen and trying to do it without scratch paper. The bubble sheets get used a lot too and a machine can scan them. I except to push the "show your work" idea as students seem somewhat resistant.

These guys need procedural fluency and a lot of practice with it. They pick up on concepts, but need to develop persistence with pencil and paper. There is a hell of a lot of testing. Some is good and necessary but a single-subject test should be wrapped up in one day. Straddling 2 days, 3-6 times a year, that sure adds up.

ETA: It's a charter school. There is more flexibility. Charters have their problems but they are usually smaller, somewhat stand-alone entities where 2 or 3 people in brief conference can iron out solutions without kicking things up the food chain.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

No one ever invested in a bunch of materials. We have sets of the old textbooks and use them as resources sometimes. There's an emphasis on mixing things up - approaching problems different ways, trying new technology, peer-on-peer interaction, games, labs (the mental meatball experiment), combined with having to stay after school if they are making a C or D. So, a fair amount of Common Core-like ideas, but the curriculum coach has always done things this way. I am a paraprofessional and have the luxury of working with small groups. If I see their work I can spot misconceptions in real time which is helpful. This is a charter school; they have their pluses and minuses but in general I think they do a pretty good job.

There was a push toward online testing but I think it was only peripherally related to Common Core. The school wanted to leverage Khan Academy and IXL Math resources which is great as long as students are using scratch paper and doing the math instead of staring at the screen and trying to do it without scratch paper. The bubble sheets get used a lot too and a machine can scan them. I except to push the "show your work" idea as students seem somewhat resistant.

These guys need procedural fluency and a lot of practice with it. They pick up on concepts, but need to develop persistence with pencil and paper. There is a hell of a lot of testing. Some is good and necessary but a single-subject test should be wrapped up in one day. Straddling 2 days, 3-6 times a year, that sure adds up.

ETA: It's a charter school. There is more flexibility. Charters have their problems but they are usually smaller, somewhat stand-alone entities where 2 or 3 people in brief conference can iron out solutions without kicking things up the food chain.

You managed not to answer and are participating in a thread derail with Chinese. It is not a thread on Chinese.

It sure sounds like you are in some kind of Common Core state but the implementation is ratty. It is odd to say no-one invested in a "bunch" of materials. It is a way to minimize whatever the school DID invest.

Charter schools are huge amounts of effort to create and they are subject to the School District in the end anyway. When I was an elected official we funded them and watched parents kill themselves establishing the schools and then having their kids subject to the same School Board and district Administration. All you have to do is teach your kid to read. You can't change the whole system.

It is notable you do not want to be clear about the status of your state. Maybe part of the reason is that despite being common core, you do whatever you want anyway, which makes the principle of common core laughable. Hard to say when someone is being evasive.

 

[Minoosh]

You managed not to answer and are participating in a thread derail with Chinese. It is not a thread on Chinese.

You asked "what now," my answer is to look at good practices and build on them. If I find the numbering system in another language facilitates math learning I'll ask other posters about it.

At this school there are no Common Core textbooks, and charter schools do not answer to districts.

It is notable you do not want to be clear about the status of your state. Maybe part of the reason is that despite being common core, you do whatever you want anyway, which makes the principle of common core laughable. Hard to say when someone is being evasive.

My state isn't clear on the status of my state.

The basic skills to be mastered in high school math haven't changed. There's an ongoing effort to find and use the best practices for math instruction.