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gas milage

King of the Americas

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K
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Nov 15, 2001
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Does this latest gimmick hold any promise?

http://www.wholly-water.com/magnetizer/super.magnetic.fuel.saver.htm

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Beyond these kinds of systems, what kind of milage improvements can you get applying these techniques:

-Underdrive pully systems (designed to use less engine power to drive auxilary systems)

-Port and polished exhaust systems

-removing rear spoilers

-closing up dead spots (air catches that disallow smooth air flow over and around the vehicle)

-using higher octane gas

-running the vehicle in colder climate

-increasing tire pressure
 
King of the Americas said:
Does this latest gimmick hold any promise?

http://www.wholly-water.com/magnetizer/super.magnetic.fuel.saver.htm

---

Beyond these kinds of systems, what kind of milage improvements can you get applying these techniques:

-Underdrive pully systems (designed to use less engine power to drive auxilary systems)

-Port and polished exhaust systems

-removing rear spoilers

-closing up dead spots (air catches that disallow smooth air flow over and around the vehicle)

-using higher octane gas

-running the vehicle in colder climate

-increasing tire pressure
Click to expand...
The question the "King" is actually asking is...

How can I get 40 mpg out of a 99 Mitsubishi Eclipse so I can win a bet I have going with Psiload?

His original goal was 50 mpg, but I agreed to 40 mpg as the target of the wager. Mind you... this particular vehicle is listed as 22/27 mpg when new!

In short... he's asking for advice on how to go about squeezing blood out of a turnip.

The Magnetic Fuel Saver Turnip Squeezer(tm) by Ronco! Yeah... that'll do it! :D

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm
 
To Psiload:

Your money is as good as mine... ;)

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What's up with the THSMB, I haven't bee able to load the board for several days?
 
Re: To Psiload:

King of the Americas said:
Your money is as good as mine... ;)

---

What's up with the THSMB, I haven't bee able to load the board for several days?
Click to expand...
I think it collapsed under the weight of all the political cartoons.;)
 
-closing up dead spots (air catches that disallow smooth air flow over and around the vehicle
Click to expand...

Try taking the mirrors off the car. The catch with determining whether the mileage improves is that driving a car in the real world involves so many variables that any small improvement (.5 - 2) gets lost in the noise.

If you are willing to endanger your life to win the bet, then drafting behind a semi-trailer is the best approach.:eek:
 
To Ladewig:

That is a tool I have used before...but given the origination of the bet, I won't be using that technique.

I once traveled about 100 miles on an eighth of a tank of gas(less than 2 gallons), by hugging up to the back of a trucker. It was 3 in the morning, and I had a CB to ASK for permission to do so. They usually don't like that kind of thing...
 
The device is a typical scam thingie..."aligned molecules..." hehe.

The fact is that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Improving aerodynamics helps, especially at highway speeds. A lot of the car's energy goes to pushing air out of the way. That's why we were seeing so many egg-shaped cars some years ago, and why SUVs tend to have poor mileage.
Spoilers on regular passenger cars are strictly cosmetic anyway, they have no actual effect on traction or handling. Watch an actual sports-cars race to see what you need to have real downforce effects.
I doubt that "smoothing" the exterior of the vehicle could not have more than a couple of percentage points on aero effect.

Tire pressures--sure, more pressure means less rolling resistance. Also, less traction, more center wear, etc. No free lunch. Factories spend a lot of R/D time optimizing reccomended settings.
Tweaking the engine by way of porting/polishing, etc? You might gain a couple of HP....thus a tiny increase in efficiency.

I know they make "chips" now that can optimize power and/or efficiency by dyno-testing the engine across the rpm range, and optimizing fuel and ignition settings for each range. I understand you can realize a fair increase in HP with no other modification. I'd assume this would apply to efficiency as well.
But, bottom line is that I doubt the average passenger car could be improved to the point where fuel savings would be better than those realized by careful driving.
Keep the thing properly tuned, tire pressures right, and drive with an "egg under your foot". No hard accellerations. If the light up ahead is red, coast. Pick an efficient speed on the highway and maintain it. Simple stuff they've been reccomending for years.
 
To Psiload:

I think it collapsed under the weight of all the political cartoons

*That or Gunto finally pissed in someone's Cherrios, who had superior hacking skills comparied to his firewall building ability...

Any idea when it will be back up and running?
 
King of the Americas said:
Does this latest gimmick hold any promise?
Click to expand...

As with many such "devices", the greatest promise is for sucking excess cash out of the marks.

To see some discussion about why some of us think that such claims are likely/unlikely to be true, see this thread .


_Q_
 
To Bikewer:

The device is a typical scam thingie..."aligned molecules..." hehe.

*The guy who recommended this "magnet" device, got a chuckle out of me when he brought it up. I responded by saying, "Yeah I've still got some arthritus magnets around, will those do?"

The fact is that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Improving aerodynamics helps, especially at highway speeds. A lot of the car's energy goes to pushing air out of the way. That's why we were seeing so many egg-shaped cars some years ago, and why SUVs tend to have poor mileage.
Spoilers on regular passenger cars are strictly cosmetic anyway, they have no actual effect on traction or handling. Watch an actual sports-cars race to see what you need to have real downforce effects.
I doubt that "smoothing" the exterior of the vehicle could not have more than a couple of percentage points on aero effect.

*On this particular car, there are 2 big dead spot on the front bumper, where air would clearly "catch", and not be distributed around the car... The spoiler, although not 'large' is about 10 inches wide, covers the width of tthe car, and is built just like any other lift wing I have seen on a plane.

Tire pressures--sure, more pressure means less rolling resistance. Also, less traction, more center wear, etc. No free lunch. Factories spend a lot of R/D time optimizing reccomended settings.

*Do you have any data on hand about how much tire pressure affects efficiency?

Tweaking the engine by way of porting/polishing, etc? You might gain a couple of HP....thus a tiny increase in efficiency.

*My experience has mainly been with V-8's, and we say up to a 33% increase in horsepower by modifying intake and exhaust systems. I DON'T think I'll get that same kind of increase with this little 4 banger, but by just looking at the exhaust system, I can see room for improvement.

I know they make "chips" now that can optimize power and/or efficiency by dyno-testing the engine across the rpm range, and optimizing fuel and ignition settings for each range. I understand you can realize a fair increase in HP with no other modification. I'd assume this would apply to efficiency as well.
But, bottom line is that I doubt the average passenger car could be improved to the point where fuel savings would be better than those realized by careful driving.
Keep the thing properly tuned, tire pressures right, and drive with an "egg under your foot". No hard accellerations. If the light up ahead is red, coast. Pick an efficient speed on the highway and maintain it. Simple stuff they've been reccomending for years.

*Thank you for your expertise, it is appreciated.
 
Bikewer said:
The device is a typical scam thingie..."aligned molecules..." hehe.

The fact is that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Improving aerodynamics helps, especially at highway speeds. A lot of the car's energy goes to pushing air out of the way. That's why we were seeing so many egg-shaped cars some years ago, and why SUVs tend to have poor mileage.
Spoilers on regular passenger cars are strictly cosmetic anyway, they have no actual effect on traction or handling. Watch an actual sports-cars race to see what you need to have real downforce effects.
I doubt that "smoothing" the exterior of the vehicle could not have more than a couple of percentage points on aero effect.

Tire pressures--sure, more pressure means less rolling resistance. Also, less traction, more center wear, etc. No free lunch. Factories spend a lot of R/D time optimizing reccomended settings.
Tweaking the engine by way of porting/polishing, etc? You might gain a couple of HP....thus a tiny increase in efficiency.

I know they make "chips" now that can optimize power and/or efficiency by dyno-testing the engine across the rpm range, and optimizing fuel and ignition settings for each range. I understand you can realize a fair increase in HP with no other modification. I'd assume this would apply to efficiency as well.
But, bottom line is that I doubt the average passenger car could be improved to the point where fuel savings would be better than those realized by careful driving.
Keep the thing properly tuned, tire pressures right, and drive with an "egg under your foot". No hard accellerations. If the light up ahead is red, coast. Pick an efficient speed on the highway and maintain it. Simple stuff they've been reccomending for years.
Click to expand...
All good and fine suggestions, but realistically here... we're talking about a projected increase in fuel effecieny of approx. 35-40% over original manufacturer specs with no major modifications to the vehicle. 40 mpg?! From a standard IC engine car? Even the Mini Coopers aren't getting near that. We're talking mileage that a hybrid owner would be bragging about.

Shee!t... 40mpg is practically within range of a JREF Prize claim.
 
While working at a car dealer a customer wanted us to install this magnet thingy for economy. I laughed at him, but he claimed it worked. I pointed out that his electric fuel pump already had magnets in it.

I had a 98 Toyota Tercel that would easily surpass 40 mpg. (Imperial or American gallons ?) I always did litres / 100k and it could achieve around 5.3 l/100k.
 
Interesting show on the "MINI" on the Speed channell last year.

The designer wanted a car which could go 100mph, and get 100miles on a gallon of gas. (AND, sell for 100 pounds)

He was succesful in both endeavors, sort of.

They got 100mph out of the thing my the most heroic methods, fielding a streamlined and "tuned-to-the-nines" vesion at one of the closed, oval, board tracks that were popular at the time.

They did get 100 miles on a gallon of gas, again by using extreme methods of streamlining, weight reduction, hard tires, tall gearing, and so forth. Again, on a closed test track.

I seem to recall that the Model T would consistently get about 25 mpg...
 
I think you can do it, but you've got to exploit the peculiarities of the Otto cycle engine you've got. You didn't specify if there were any conditions, so I'm assuming there aren't any. So:

1. Select a test "track" - ideally, a little-travelled, flat, fairly smooth stretch of road as long as possible, or if you're lucky, a several-mile loop with no stops.

2. Pump your tires up to 60 psi.

3. Right before the test, do an oil change so you have fresh oil to minimize engine friction.

4. Start smoothly, and get into your highest gear ASAP.

5. Otto cycle engines are most thermodynamically efficient at wide-open throttle. Even in your highest gear at a slow speed, you'll still accelerate, so what you'll want to do is determine the slowest speed you can drive in your highest gear and still be able to accelerate without stalling the engine.

6. Once in your highest gear, accelerate to 45-50 miles per hour, then put the transmission in neutral and coast until your speed drops to the lowest speed you determined above. Then re-engage high gear, accelerate back to 45-50 mph, etc.

7. If you really want to wring it out, shut the engine off while you're coasting. Doing that, though, you'll lose your power steering and power brakes, and I don't really know if you'll gain much anyway - I don't know how much fuel is used restarting. You might have battery issues, too.

That oughtta do it!

did
 
I remember a dialogue between two truckers (I think it was in a song..).

"I got sixteen forward gears and Mexican overdrive."

"Mexican overdrive?"

"Neutral."
 
... you must make sure you are placing the Magnetic Fuel Saver on the correct line ...
Click to expand...

Hint: it's the one with the Inset Fuel Stabilizer that you put on last year.

We suggest that you drive 1500 miles of normal driving before checking for improvement.
Click to expand...

If it doesn't work, you need to wait 1500 miles.

... it is possible that your engine could temporally decrease in mileage and increase in emissions at the beginning of the cleaning/removal period.
Click to expand...

If it still doesn't work, you need to break it in some more.

... you have ninety days to be satisfied, otherwise, return it and take your money back.
Click to expand...

If it still doesn't work, your refund period has expired.
 
I'm getting between 31 and 35 miles per gallon out of a manual transmission honda prelude right now.

My thoughts as to why the mileage has improved over the 25 to 29 that I used to get.

1. My driving has a higher highway component than it did previously.

2. I drive slower than I used to. I now drive at between 65 and 70 mph most of the time. Previously if the traffic allowed it I would drive up to 85 MPH.

3. I try to use cruise control when I can. (It's more fuel efficient to drive 65 MPH continuously than to average 65 MPH by going faster and slower than 65 MPH).

4. I check the tire pressure more often than I used to.

5. I use the brakes as little as possible. I look far ahead on the freeway so that I can anticipate the need for slowing dowin so I can slow down by taking my foot off the accelerator rather than braking.

6. If I'm going down a long hill or I can see that I will need to slow down I allow the car to drift in neutral.

7. Get into the highest useable gear as quickly as possible. I won't switch to a gear that is so high the car lugs but if I don't need acceleration power I will drive in the highest possible gear all the time.

Things I haven't done that I'm thinking about:
1. Use synthetic oil. Until recently, I've had an oil leak that precluded the use of expensive oil. The oil leak is fixed and I think I'm going to try synthtetic oil at next oil change.

2. Alternative spark plugs. My mechanic says that cars sometimes have trouble passing smog check with them. So I didn't put them in at last tune up. Still I've thought about trying them.

3. Disconnecting my inoperative air conditioner.

Comment on 40 MPG bet wtih PSILOAD.
I think you've got a pretty good shot at getting to 40MPG.

First drive the car at around 45 MPH in highway type driving. I think you might be pretty close with just this.

Then add slightly overinflated tires, recent oil change (perhaps with synthetic oil), removing all unnecessary junk from the car, using cruise control, and perhaps a recent tuneup and I think you're going to be really close.

There is also variation of energy content in gas. I think some of this is seasonal also so driving in the right season might help. I forget the details on this. But my recollection is that the energy content of low octane gas is equal or higher than high octane gas so I don't think using high octane gas will help.

I also feel that you might get slightly higher gas mileage driving in high humidity conditions, but I haven't seen proof for this and my own empirical testing is to imprecise to draw definite conclusions.

edited to add.
As to the after market gadgets, I believe that most of them are complete crap. The magnetic ones in particular.

The EPA has tested many of these devices and has not found one that substantially improved mileage. The EPA has a standardized test protocol for detemining mileage. It's my view that any manufacturer that had a device that actually improved mileage would have their device tested to this protocol and if it would passed they would immediately be rewarded with enormous sales and potentially a giant OEM market as the government might be induced to require their gadget on new cars. This doesn't happen, because alleged mileage improvement gadgets don't work.

Another argument that they don't work is that they are always sold by small companies. Why wouldn't a large company sell these things? My thought is because they don't want to deal with the liability and reputation loss that comes from selling a fraudulent device.
 
I've found that you can greatly increase your mileage by driving only downhill. My mpg gauge in my Grand Cherokee once topped out at 99 mpg (I think that's as high as it will go) while going down a mountain. This from a 4.7 litre V8!

So my advice is to travel exclusively downhill. Just try to stop before you get to the ocean. ;)
 
Here's a good question for debate: does driving in neutral downhill use more or less gas than driving in gear?

I mean, in neutral, it needs to supply gas to the engine to keep it idling, right? I would guess that in gear, the engine needs zero gas.
 
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