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Galloway is back

zooterkin said:
Your wish is my command. :) Start here:
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What a great link - cheers :D

Just watched the initial opening comments (20 mins!) from both of them....essential viewing for students of oratory and rhetoric everywhere.....
 
The man is a tool alright. But a very clever tool who has once again seen the opportunity to catch a seat on a protest vote.

Take any of the GOP candidates and stick them in a room with this "tool" for a debate and he would rip them apart.
 
andyandy said:
So we both agree he's a bit of a tool - great. Glad to see he's no longer a "communist"....

You seem very dismissive of democracy - this guy has just been elected with 50% of the vote - he's the person that the people of Bradford have chosen. He ran on an anti-war ticket, anti mainstream politics ticket and that resonated. Why be proud that such a candidate could not win (in your opinion) in Australia?

the wider point is completely valid - a functioning democracy needs to have the ability to allow people to vote for people outside a very narrow political spectrum - otherwise it is not a true democracy. We have 3 main parties who are all exceptionally similar - so it is indeed good for democracy that someone outside this narrow range has won. Hopefully it will mean that politicians start listening to what people want - whatever that is. To be glad that this can't happen (supposedly) in Australia seems rather perverse.
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Would you say that if they elected a Nazi?
 
Virus said:
Would you say that if they elected a Nazi?
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Goodness, it didn't take long for the Nazis to take over the thread....:)

Not sure if it's worth debating any further if this is the level of debate - but i'll try:

I support democracy. I support the ability of people to choose to elect people who run on tickets which they support. That doesn't mean that I would be happy with every choice that people make when democratically electing someone - but I support their right to make that choice. If the people of Bradford had elected a Nazi standing for mass extermination and death camps, then that would reflect serious problems in society that such a view could gain massive traction - but that would be a problem with society not with democracy. Democracy should allow people to choose people they want to represent them.

The people of Bradford elected someone standing on a ticket of anti-war anti main parties - I don't see that as something anyone should find threatening or comparable to electing a Nazi....

Do you support the concept of democracy?
 
andyandy said:
Goodness, it didn't take long for the Nazis to take over the thread....:)

Not sure if it's worth debating any further if this is the level of debate - but i'll try:

I support democracy. I support the ability of people to choose to elect people who run on tickets which they support. That doesn't mean that I would be happy with every choice that people make when democratically electing someone - but I support their right to make that choice. If the people of Bradford had elected a Nazi standing for mass extermination and death camps, then that would reflect serious problems in society that such a view could gain massive traction - but that would be a problem with society not with democracy. Democracy should allow people to choose people they want to represent them.

The people of Bradford elected someone standing on a ticket of anti-war anti main parties - I don't see that as something anyone should find threatening or comparable to electing a Nazi....

Do you support the concept of democracy?
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Never said any of that stuff.

I'm glad Communists don't win elections here.

Settle down. That's all I said.
 
andyandy said:
Goodness, it didn't take long for the Nazis to take over the thread....:)

Not sure if it's worth debating any further if this is the level of debate - but i'll try:

I support democracy. I support the ability of people to choose to elect people who run on tickets which they support. That doesn't mean that I would be happy with every choice that people make when democratically electing someone - but I support their right to make that choice. If the people of Bradford had elected a Nazi standing for mass extermination and death camps, then that would reflect serious problems in society that such a view could gain massive traction - but that would be a problem with society not with democracy. Democracy should allow people to choose people they want to represent them.

The people of Bradford elected someone standing on a ticket of anti-war anti main parties - I don't see that as something anyone should find threatening or comparable to electing a Nazi....

Do you support the concept of democracy?
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Democracy is great and is definitely the "least worst" system of government... but that doesn't mean that a rejection of mainstream views in favour of tribal separatism is something to be celebrated.

This election just shows the lack of immigrant integration into UK society.
 
Giz said:
Democracy is great and is definitely the "least worst" system of government... but that doesn't mean that a rejection of mainstream views in favour of tribal separatism is something to be celebrated.

This election just shows the lack of immigrant integration into UK society.
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The point is that we have such an incredibly narrow spectrum of "mainstream views" that views which are held by large numbers of people are not represented by any main political party. That is not the sign of a healthy democracy. For a candidate to gain 50% of the vote - on the back of appealing to those disenfranchised voters is good for democracy - regardless of what you think of Galloway.

Now, his victory may be a result of ethnic tensions in northern urban cities - but accountability within the political system seems better than alienation outside it.....
 
Well his alleged funding-stream from overseas dictators has probably dried up by now so it's about time he got a proper job.

I wonder what his position is on Syria?
 
andyandy said:
The point is that we have such an incredibly narrow spectrum of "mainstream views" that views which are held by large numbers of people are not represented by any main political party. That is not the sign of a healthy democracy. For a candidate to gain 50% of the vote - on the back of appealing to those disenfranchised voters is good for democracy - regardless of what you think of Galloway.

Now, his victory may be a result of ethnic tensions in northern urban cities - but accountability within the political system seems better than alienation outside it.....
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Yes. And maybe the production-line, self-serving, anodyne dullards that populate Westminster might sit up and take note that maybe, just maybe, they need to actually do something in order to earn a seat.
 
GlennB said:
Yes. And maybe the production-line, self-serving, anodyne dullards that populate Westminster might sit up and take note that maybe, just maybe, they need to actually do something in order to earn a seat.
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Hold on a minute, I hope you're not including Dennis Skinner in there!
 
Comsat Angel said:
Hold on a minute, I hope you're not including Dennis Skinner in there!
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Dennis Skinner is really from another generation. It's nice to see people like him still there but most of the House of Commons has been taken over by an army of very bland PR-trained people with very little interest in ideology. It doesn't really matter which party they are from because ultimately they are all the same.

People like Skinner are really just the last of a different breed. In fact, Tony Benn and Margaret Thatcher are these days pined for by some of the same people only because they at least stood for something and weren't useless grey suits.
 
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