Gable Tostee

[lionking]

Agree mostly with gareththomasnz

If you read the full transcript of the recording (which has been publicly available for over two years):

Wright become highly intoxicated.
She faked losing her phone and accused Tostee of stealing it before revealing she had it on her person the entire time.
Later she started to become violent and began throwing rocks at Tostee.
He then repeatedly and increasingly angrily asked her to leave (this was when he said "you're lucky I haven't chucked you off the balcony).
She stayed.
He then tried to physically throw her out (this is when he said "You're not taking any of your things, I'm throwing you out just as you are")
She grabbed a telescope and hit him with it.
He then pinned her to the floor and forced her to drop it.
He threw her onto the balcony, accused her of trying to kill him and said he had proof (the recording).
She begged him to let her go and she refused ("I would but you've been a bad girl")
He then locked the door, she screamed and then silence.

I understand the cops are relying on a precedent where a woman jumped out her 9th story window when her husband came at her with a knife. This case is very different though. By locking her out on they balcony Tostee removed any immediate threat of harm

All up, it seems more like he was threatening to press charges than to kill her. His actions in locking her on the balcony where definitely vindictive and malicious, but it's fairly clear that he never intended her physical harm imo.

Now you could argue that leaving a drunk, frightened and unbalanced young woman on the balcony was reckless/criminally negligent. Manslaughter maybe, but definitely not murder imo.

The judge that granted him bail said as much when she stated that the case for a murder charge was not strong and that manslaughter might be more appropriate.

Two defenders of Tostee join in short order. Tell me, so I can properly understand your posts and motivations. Are you part of some sort of Tostee defence group?

 

[Ben1985]

Thanks for the welcome bb. Regarding the transcript, just try typing in "gable tostee transcript" into Google. There are several detailed summaries available.

 

[lionking]

Agree mostly with gareththomasnz

If you read the full transcript of the recording (which has been publicly available for over two years):

Wright become highly intoxicated.
She faked losing her phone and accused Tostee of stealing it before revealing she had it on her person the entire time.
Later she started to become violent and began throwing rocks at Tostee.
He then repeatedly and increasingly angrily asked her to leave (this was when he said "you're lucky I haven't chucked you off the balcony).
She stayed.
He then tried to physically throw her out (this is when he said "You're not taking any of your things, I'm throwing you out just as you are")
She grabbed a telescope and hit him with it.
He then pinned her to the floor and forced her to drop it.
He threw her onto the balcony, accused her of trying to kill him and said he had proof (the recording).
She begged him to let her go and she refused ("I would but you've been a bad girl")
He then locked the door, she screamed and then silence.

I understand the cops are relying on a precedent where a woman jumped out her 9th story window when her husband came at her with a knife. This case is very different though. By locking her out on they balcony Tostee removed any immediate threat of harm

All up, it seems more like he was threatening to press charges than to kill her. His actions in locking her on the balcony where definitely vindictive and malicious, but it's fairly clear that he never intended her physical harm imo.

Now you could argue that leaving a drunk, frightened and unbalanced young woman on the balcony was reckless/criminally negligent. Manslaughter maybe, but definitely not murder imo.

The judge that granted him bail said as much when she stated that the case for a murder charge was not strong and that manslaughter might be more appropriate.

Okay assuming you are posting in good faith. Please explain why Tostee didn't throw Wreight out the front door and call the police? Then please explain why he casually strolled out to have a pizza before calling the police?

This isn't the behaviour of a simple jerk. This is the behaviour of a narcissistic, violent murderer. Behaviour displayed in the audio where he threatened to throw her off the balcony. He was twice her size. She was no doubt in fear of her life. He's going down.

 

[Shiner]

The transcript.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

 

[Hard Cheese]

Normally yes, but when that person has physically and verbally assaulted you for an hour, left you with bleeding welts, begun to damage your property and has possession of a blunt instrument that they have struck you with you restrain them & put them somewhere they can not further do you damage.

How do you know he was not planning to call the police?

I assume he intended to leave her there to sober up

Even a Gold Coast shoebox will have a bathroom with a door - not lockable from the outside perhaps, but in her state far better than a 14th floor balcony.

And welcome, by the way

 

[Hard Cheese]

This isn't the behaviour of a simple jerk. This is the behaviour of a narcissistic, violent murderer. Behaviour displayed in the audio where he threatened to throw her off the balcony. He was twice her size. She was no doubt in fear of her life. He's going down.

Not as cut and dried as you think - there are precedents that point to both a guilty and not guilty verdict.

A CRIMINOLOGIST has predicted Gable Tostee could be acquitted after a jury rejected a similar argument in a separate case this week.

Criminologist, barrister and former detective inspector Terry Goldsworthy said the acquittal of Christopher Cairns and Dion Pydde for the murder of Tumara Cousins could set a precedent for Tostee.
...
During the trial Crown Prosecutor Glen Cash said Mr Cousins had been threatened with a gun, later found to be a replica, and assaulted so severely it “forced him to take the very risky option” of climbing the balcony to flee.

Mr Goldsworthy said the not guilty verdict for Cairns and Pydde could be a sign of things to come in Tostee’s case.

“I thought the Cousins’ case was reasonably strong from the facts known but the jury wasn’t prepared to accept that as murder even though there was a gun used, criminal activity taking place and witnesses who escaped,” he said.

On the other hand, there is a similar case where the accused was found guilty:

Mr Goldsworthy said a 1986 murder case where a woman fell to her death while climbing out a sixth floor window to flee her violent boyfriend was the precedent for such cases.

Kelly Healey was in the shower when her boyfriend Kim William Royall broke down the bathroom door, grabbed her throat and punched her in the face causing her to try to escape out of a window. Ms Healy fell 21m to her death and Royall was found guilty of her murder – not because he necessarily threw her, but because she fell trying to escape him.

 

[Ben1985]

Okay assuming you are posting in good faith. Please explain why Tostee didn't throw Wreight out the front door and call the police? Then please explain why he casually strolled out to have a pizza before calling the police?

This isn't the behaviour of a simple jerk. This is the behaviour of a narcissistic, violent murderer. Behaviour displayed in the audio where he threatened to throw her off the balcony. He was twice her size. She was no doubt in fear of her life. He's going down.

I can't pretend to know what Tostee was thinking. My guess is that he was angry that she had just trashed his apartment, refused to leave and then tried to cave his head in with a telescope. Was locking her out on the balcony irresponsible and vindictive? Absolutely. Does it display murderous intent? No. Could it be argued that he unintentionally caused her death? Maybe (drunk people are well known to overestimate their own capabilities, it's why so many people get behind the wheel after a few drinks).

Furthermore, I don't see how his subsequent culinary choice provides any indication of any latent murderous tendencies. I remember it being reported at his bail hearing that Tostee is mildly autistic and that that may be responsible for his behavior. Our he could've just been in shock and running on auto-pilot. Either way, I really don't see the significance.

 

[lionking]

Not as cut and dried as you think - there are precedents that point to both a guilty and not guilty verdict.




On the other hand, there is a similar case where the accused was found guilty:

The difference between these cases is that the acquitted case involved a male, the conviction a female.

I'm confident he will be convicted. Stranger things have happened though.

 

[lionking]

I can't pretend to know what Tostee was thinking. My guess is that he was angry that she had just trashed his apartment, refused to leave and then tried to cave his head in with a telescope. Was locking her out on the balcony irresponsible and vindictive? Absolutely. Does it display murderous intent? No. Could it be argued that he unintentionally caused her death? Maybe (drunk people are well known to overestimate their own capabilities, it's why so many people get behind the wheel after a few drinks).

Furthermore, I don't see how his subsequent culinary choice provides any indication of any latent murderous tendencies. I remember it being reported at his bail hearing that Tostee is mildly autistic and that that may be responsible for his behavior. Our he could've just been in shock and running on auto-pilot. Either way, I really don't see the significance.

Please stop with this rubbish. You are on a skeptical forum. Where is the evidence of such violent damage to Tostee?

You are biased, this is clear. But can you please explain why he, as big and strong as he was, didn't simply put the victim out the door and/or call the police?

 

[Ben1985]

I am not biased (or at least not to the extent of trying to push pizza eating as evidence of murderous intent). As for your question, I've mentioned twice already, he was doing exactly that when she assaulted him.

 

[Hard Cheese]

The difference between these cases is that the acquitted case involved a male, the conviction a female.

It should be irrelevant.

I'm confident he will be convicted. Stranger things have happened though.

I don't think you can say beyond reasonable doubt that his actions were life threatening. You can make a case for the scenario where he locks her out on the balcony to sober up, but she is not in fear of her life; in her inebriated state she just makes a very bad judgement call about her ability to climb down. I think he'll be found not guilty. But I wouldn't put a lot of money on it.

 

[Hard Cheese]

Our he could've just been in shock and running on auto-pilot.

Be careful, people will tell you that it's perfectly normal to behave irrationally in stressful situations...unless it's Gable Tostee, where eating a pizza after seeing someone fall 14 floors is proof of his guilt

And welcome, Ben1985

 

[Ben1985]

Be careful, people will tell you that it's perfectly normal to behave irrationally in stressful situations...unless it's Gable Tostee, where eating a pizza after seeing someone fall 14 floors is proof of his guilt

And welcome, Ben1985

Thanks

 

[gareththomasnz]

Tostee was drunk as a skunk - not as drunk as her for sure but still well beyond what would be considered a rational sober state.

After the incident no doubt the shock & adrenaline sobered him up as would have eating a meal. So he was drunk & needed to sober up.

He could have thrown her out with her belongings yes but she would have made a terrible commotion in the corridor screaming and yelling

Also he did offer to walk her home earlier on, but by the end she was beyond that. So the balcony was somewhere she could not cause any trouble for anybody - if he had shoved her out the door she could have caused more trouble in the building

He could have locked her in the bathroom but the sliding french door was right there & he could see what she was doing

I dont believe he did this to be vindictive but it was certainly irresponsible.

Her behaviour was beyond irresponsible & vindictive but I have been paralytic myself many times & yep its not ones best


This was the 14th floor I believe so he could not just shove her out the door in that state - she would never have made it out of the building unassisted.

I'm not connected to the case at all - just listened to the recordings and am making a non-emotional judgement

 

[lionking]

I am not biased (or at least not to the extent of trying to push pizza eating as evidence of murderous intent). As for your question, I've mentioned twice already, he was doing exactly that when she assaulted him.

You have no evidence of this. Remember that you are not on a "True Crime" forum, but a skeptical one.

 

[gareththomasnz]

Oh and there is ample evidence of the damage to Tostee he had scabs and scars all over so must have been bleeding a fair bit at the time

 

[lionking]

Tostee was drunk as a skunk - not as drunk as her for sure but still well beyond what would be considered a rational sober state.

After the incident no doubt the shock & adrenaline sobered him up as would have eating a meal. So he was drunk & needed to sober up.

He could have thrown her out with her belongings yes but she would have made a terrible commotion in the corridor screaming and yelling

Also he did offer to walk her home earlier on, but by the end she was beyond that. So the balcony was somewhere she could not cause any trouble for anybody - if he had shoved her out the door she could have caused more trouble in the building

Of couse that was not the case - but they were both too drunk to behave responsibly

This was the 14th floor I believe so he could not just shove her out the door in that state - she would never have made it out of the building unassisted.

I'm not connected to the case at all - just listened to the recordings and am making a non-emotional judgement

I am totally gobsmacked by this.You are saying that Tostee's drunkenness somehow excuses him. Amazing ********.

The poor, buffed, bodybuilding baby was so upset by the Tinder girl getting thrown out on the balcony, threatened with violence and subsequently being murdered that he had to comfort himself by eating a pizza. Before calling the police.

 

[lionking]

Oh and there is ample evidence of the damage to Tostee he had scabs and scars all over so must have been bleeding a fair bit at the time

Rubbish.

 

[gareththomasnz]

No its not rubbish there are photographs which I have seen online & he had a medical examination of the injuries. He still had bruising and scabs from the cuts more than a day later so he would have definitely been bleeding a fair bit

He had cuts all over arms, legs etc . There was also his blood on the stones and other items. While she inflicted this he was still being somewhat affable toward her.

In the end all she got was held down & told off. It was her choice to climb off the balcony. Clearly hysterical & blind drunk.

Clearly she was drunk beyond sound judgement & so was he. Are we to have drunken breathalizer tests for balcony owners? I think not.

Yes you can argue that he should not have put her on the balcony in that state - but he was also in a state of drunkeness

She should not have chosen to drink alcohol in an apartment with a 14 floor balcony when she was fully sober at the beginning - same rationality in that argument

She was a grown woman fully responsible for her actions. She was guilty of assault. She knew when she began drinking that there was a dangerous balcony. She chose to get blind drunk and have sex with a total stranger in an apartment with a 14 floor balcony. Even I wouldnt do that.

So I dont have any sympathy or malice in this case. I just dont like to see people finger pointing unjustly.

 

[Shiner]

I am totally gobsmacked by this.You are saying that Tostee's drunkenness somehow excuses him. Amazing ********.

The poor, buffed, bodybuilding baby was so upset by the Tinder girl getting thrown out on the balcony, threatened with violence and subsequently being murdered that he had to comfort himself by eating a pizza. Before calling his daddy, his lawyer, and eventually the police.

FTFY.

I don't believe autism ever came up in the trial. I'm pretty sure it was BS in 2014, and still is now. I wonder if anyone has evidence of it.