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Fuel Saver Pro

Ceptimus, fsol and _Q_---read your posts.

I just got here from NAPA. Bought it! I am a man of my word. It cost over $73 including tax. It looks like it's worth 50 cents! The guy came out to help me and we analyzed my application. It does not look like it is going to work right the way my 'box' is...then the hose...and THEN I have filter...and then the throttle body. It is supposed to work for an application where you have : Filter...then hose...then throttle body. You put it in the hose.

With MY application, the filter will negate the swirling air I am afraid. We took off the air cleaner and my air cleaner is square and the throttle body is tri-ovular shaped. There is no place to put a round Tornado of ANY size.

I now have to e-mail that tech guy @ Gabriel @ Tornadoair.com. I want to see if they have any info to give me about my engine/van, and making a conversion. They do talk about conversions in their instruction material that is in the box.

The guy at NAPA said they have sold like 50 of these things. Very few have been returned for a refund. One guy that did return it said it is ◊◊◊◊ and it don't work. The NAPA guy put it in his OWN vehicle and said he gets about 2 mpg more. So he went and put another one in ANOTHER one of his vehicles!

He has gotten positive feedback from many people, he said. He said one guy told him that his vehicle would downshift going up a hill he could barely make it over. After the Tornado? No more down shifting!

When I was at NAPA, a neatly manicured 40'ish guy with a nice car said HE has one in HIS right now. He raised the hood to show us where. He said he can notice the difference in power. But what struck me so odd is, when I asked him if he was getting more mpg...and he shrugged and said he hadn't checked. Huhhhhh???? Hello! I guess he was interested in the possible power gain.

I ran that 'driving like you have an egg' theory by the NAPA guy, and he smiled and said, he knows what I mean...but that isn't the case he claims.

On the Tornado box they show another endorsement from the two mechanics who have that show on TNN called, "Shade Tree Mechanic"....and it says it appears in numerous automotive magazines. Wouldn't you feel dumb if you were a national celebrity that is a recognized mechanic, and you were endorsing a bogus product?

'll be back after I hear from Gabriel.
 
Quote/unquote...off their box the Tornado comes in:

Students in my advanced EFI class this past semester put the Tornado on a 1994 Chevrolet Tahoe with a 350 TBI engine. I was skeptical, but test after test showed an increase MPG of 14.5 up from 11. They have also noticed no flat spot around 35-45 MPH and improved acceleration-Prof. Bell, Automotive Technology of Saddleback College (I hope it's not ART Bell!)

After installing the Tornado, mileage is up to 17.5-18 MPG from 15 MPG! Needless to say I'm a believer.-On the Road with Jeff Brooks (radio show)

Increased fuel economy from 325 miles per tank to 355.-Truckin' and Mini Truckin' Magazine

We saved 10% on our fuel cost, easily reaching $10,000 in savings per year. Easily installed in vehicle-never needs to be replaced or cleaned. It's a one-shot deal.-Mr. Johnson, City Fleet Manager, CA

Dyno results: "98 Dodge Intrepid 2.5 Base HP = 95. With Tornado = 135. 40% increase. 40%!!! (You'd HAVE to feel THAT!)

Mileage results: '86 Nissan Maxima 6/3.0. 25.34 MPG. With Tornado = 31.44. 24.07% increase.

(The two illustrations were their two highest ones)
 
Iamme said:
Dyno results: "98 Dodge Intrepid 2.5 Base HP = 95. With Tornado = 135. 40% increase. 40%!!! (You'd HAVE to feel THAT!)
Click to expand...

Can anyone confirm that there even exists a 98 Dodge intrepid with 2.5L engine ? I wanted to see what the HP was for it, but can't find anything. 95 HP is what I would expect from a low performance 2L engine.

"You'd HAVE to feel THAT" ... is that possibly a reaction to customers who say that they don't feel an increase ?
 
Iamme said:
I just got here from NAPA. Bought it! I am a man of my word. It cost over $73 including tax. It looks like it's worth 50 cents!
Click to expand...
Well then, I think a round of applause is in order for the Tornado Hot Air marketing department.

Iamme said:
With MY application, the filter will negate the swirling air I am afraid. We took off the air cleaner and my air cleaner is square and the throttle body is tri-ovular shaped.
Click to expand...
That's easy to fix, and I'm surprised the genius at NAPA didn't suggest it while you were there. To get your Tornado to work with your particular induction setup you need to install an Air Filter Bypass Kit from KaleCo Performance. And while you're there, you might also want to pick up some Cross Drilled Brake Lines to keep your brake fluid nice and cool.

And, don't forget their Budget Lowering Kit, give your ride that "cool" look by lowering it 3 inches, and compared to your $75 Tornado it's a steal at just $1.99 for the complete kit.
 
teddygrahams---No. It is my OWN supposition that when I hear claims of say a 10% horsepower increase, that perhaps people wouldn't really notice that. They might THINK they feel something, through power of suggestion. But a 40% increase is a 'honkin' increase.

I am VERY disappointed that my Tornado does not apply right in my vehicle. I want in the worst way to find out if this product is legit. I am a very good diagnoser/tester type person. That is one of my strong suits.

I'd like to know if Tornados claims are being hyped by poor testing procedures. They don't say whether they got the same results on every one of the same make and model car. They don't say what condition the engine is in. Nothing. Just the claim, for that particular car.

I see what you are getting at, regarding the 95 base HP. It's as if they started the engine cold and the air shutters were stuck closed, or something. And THEN they put in the Tornado after it all got warmed up properly. Who knows. It sure does make one wonder how any vehicle could gain 40% from sticking in such a device.
 
Fsol---Just wanted to acknowledge that I read what you guys had to say, and that your posts didn't go unnoticed.

Icon---That Kale Co. site is a hoot! Everyone who knows how a motor works has got to go there and read some of those devices. :D
 
teddygrahams said:


Can anyone confirm that there even exists a 98 Dodge intrepid with 2.5L engine ? I wanted to see what the HP was for it, but can't find anything. 95 HP is what I would expect from a low performance 2L engine.
Click to expand...

It only exists if someone retrofitted it. It never came from the factory that way. In 1998 Dodge was using 2.5L 6 cyl. engines, not 4 cyl. The 2.5L was offered in the 1998 Stratus, but the factory spec is 132HP.

Tornado is just making up their "facts". I suppose if challenged, they would claim its a misprint. I wonder if they could get away with claiming that everything printed in the box is a misprint! :)
 
The anecdotal evidence on the box has essentially no value for determining the efficacy of the device.

The EPA has established detailed protocols for testing devices like this. The protocols are designed to provide repeatability and reliability. If a company has not tested their product to these protocols or has tested them and chooses to keep the results secret, it is unlikely that the product is effective. Professional technical people are well aware that you can't test things where the differences to be detected are small with anything but detailed, careful, and skillful testing if reliable results are to be obtained. And yet that is the only kind of testing that Tornado provides results for.

I see strong parallels here between John Edwards types and the Tornado company in their styles of promotion. Iamme's early comment that this thread might belong in the paranormal section makes some sense.

I continue to look forward to Iamme's results, but nothing that has been forward so far serves as any indication that the product isn't a complete sham.

A thought experiment for iamme: Suppose you were in charge of maintenance for a large trucking company. Would you, in that capacity, find any value in the effectivity information that you have seen for the Tornado so far?
 
Here's a graph to show why, by my intuition, I think that I would be able to see an abrupt and consistent 10% change (if there were one) in fuel economy in my daily driver. The more subtle the effect, the longer I think I'd have to track it to see it, as I just don't drive that many miles. This is about six month's worth.

If someone were to care to invest in a Tornado for my car, just let me know, and I'll PM you the address to which it should be shipped.:)

_Q_
 
Well I am not a wiz at statistics but I'll take a shot at this.

I calculated the standard deviation of _Q_'s data as .62 and the average as 27.7. This means to me that about 68% of the time one would expect that a result would be between 27.1 and 28.3.

Further this means to me that if one detected a 2 mpg jump above the average (about 3 standard deviations) when the tornado was installed there is about a 99% chance that the jump was significant and about a 1% chance that the jump was due to random variation.

_Q_'s data has less variation in it than I personally experience with the mileage tests that I do. I don't record the results but my data ranges roughly between 26 and 31 mpg. About half of that I attribute to different driving and the other half to variation caused by other factors that I can't predict.

The bottom line of all this is that if iamme can establish as repeatable a baseline of mileage results as _Q_ has, it seems like he will reliably be able to detect a 10% improvement in mileage.

What might be helpful here is some comment from a real statistician (notice that I used average and not mean so I am clearly not one).
 
Sorry guys, and gals...but I had to take the Tornado back today for a refund. It can't be adapted to fit my hose/filter box/cover-throttlebody area. The only way I will ever get one to work, is to abandon my complex air intake system and get some aftermarket aircleaner/cover assembly. I'd like that anyway. That way I can get my monies worth and get one of those gigantic sized Tornados. They cost the same, no matter what the size. The Tornado goes INSIDE the filter and will be there, right above the throttle body (venturi).

This story ain't yet written. I told the NAPA guy that he hasn't seen the end of me yet. (I hope)

He told me today that he put ANOTHER Tornado in his Jeep, and that ALSO is getting about 2 more miles per gallon, he said.

Remember that the Tornado comes with a 30-day, no questions asked quarantee. You have nothing to lose in trying one. IF you were to buy one?...think of all the fun posts this would generate, alone!:wink8:
 
Gabriel ...the 'tech' guy from Tornado got back with me today and then I got back ahold of HIM. He is going to see what he can come up with for making the necessary changes I need to make.
 
If you honestly want more gas mileage, there are several tried and true methods that don't require a $70 gadget(a gadget that probably doesn't work,anyway). Each item is rated easy,medium,or hardcore. Keep in mind---I'm not an expert in the field. These are just tips that may be helpful to some. Easy stuff is general maintanence,medium suggestions are one step beyond, and hardcore suggestions are for the car nuts who don't already know. :)

1. Weight reduction:

Easy---Keep your car clean. Every 10 pounds you remove from a car will result in about 1 more hp actually reaching the ground(so to speak). If your car is a moving garbage truck, clean it out. :)

Medium---If you really want to get serious about this, remove non-essential items, such as floor mats,luggage racks,etc. When you replace your lead-acid car battery, try out one of the nifty new gel cell versions. They weigh a little less than run-of-the-mill car batteries. Don't remove important things like emergency kits,spare tires, etc. If you still want to remove more weight without tearing out seats and trim and you are overqeight, go on a diet. You'll feel better, and you'll get better gas mileage. :)

Hardcore---If it is not safety related and not essential, take it out. If you're air conditioner doesn't work anymore,have the pressure in the system relieved and rip the whole assembly out. You'll remove 80-90 pounds of weight this way, and you'll get a slight boost in engine output, since the engine no longer has to rotate the AC compressor. Switch to aluminum-alloy rims if you're using steel rims. AA rims are very strong, and you can usually remove 5-10 pounds per wheel with a rim change.

2.General maintanence:

Easy---Make sure you keep up your car's reccomended maintanence schedule. By keeping the engine and transmission well-lubed, you're keeping friction in the engine and drivetrain as low as possible. Keep the car tuned and lubed properly, and you'll save on gas. Make sure your tires are properly inflated, and check tire pressures often.

Medium---All tire manufacturers list the rolling resistance of their tires. Try to strike a balance between handling and rolling resistance when you buy a new set of tires. A K&N air filter does help with some cars, netting a 1-2mpg gain, but, as they say, your mileage will vary.

Hardcore---Grab an ignition timing gun and check your timing on a regular basis. As the weather gets warmer or colder, you may need to adjust your timing to account for air density changes. Find a dyno and go to town. The only problem with this approach is that you may spend more on the timing gun and dyno fees than you would save on gas.

3. Air resistance

Easy---Make sure that all body panels are securely mounted to your car. Make sure your suspension is in good shape. If your shocks or struts are going bad, it may cause the car to tilt slightly to one side, which may add more air resistance when you're driving. Get any body damage or misaligned doors fixed by a professional mechanic.

Medium---If you don't use your radio, put down your antenna. Air resistance from the antenna may be very small, but we're trying to save gas here. If you drive a pickup and have a bugcatcher mounted to the hood, get rid of it. If you have a roof rack that you never use, get rid of it if possible. Some racks are made to be removed, and some are bolted to your car. You're on your own on this one. :)

Hardcore---If you own a front-wheel drive car, or if you don't plan on driving over 100mph, loose the deck spoiler. This especially applies to the people using GT spoilers on hatchbacks, pickup trucks, minivans, FWD cars that can't hit 80mph, etc. Just because it looks fast doesn't mean that it's fast. Even if you have a functional spoiler, it is only going to serve as added wind resistance until the spoiler hits its operational speed, which you should not ever see on the interstate. Besides, they're tacky. Save it for the race track. :)

4.Driving habits:

Easy---Take it easy on the gas! You don't need to floor your Taurus to hit 35mph. Also, let off the gas when going downhill. No matter how much gas you burn going up a hill, you will almost always save gas on the way back down. Let your engine slow down your car whenever possible. If you apply the brakes all the time, you'll waste gas, because you have to get the car back up to speed later. Also, tapping your brakes all the time can cause the person behind you to do the same thing...setting up a chain of brake tapping.

Medium---If you drive a stick shift, shift early and shift often. Some people call this Granny shifting. Make sure that you don't bog your engine down---don't put the car in 5th gear at 25mph. As a general rule, if you're used to cruising at 45 in 4th gear, shifting to 5th will reduce your gas mileage without bogging the engine down.

Hardcore---Study the torque curves for your engine, and adjust your shifting to match those curves. You should never have to redline a modern engine in casual driving. I drove a 3 cylinder Metro before moving up to a more powerful car. The gas-saving tips I learned from that car have translated very well to my new car. Save high acceleration for on ramps, passing people, and emergencies.

5. Gasoline

E/M/H---Look in your owner's manual for the grade of gasoline that you should use and stick to it. If you're car requires 89 octane, you will gain no benefit from using 93 octane, unless you have played with your ignition timing or modified your engine in some other way. Don't put 87 octane gas in car that requires 89 or 93. For one thing, you're adding unnecessary wear to your engine from valve knock. Using the proper gas might not get you better gas mileage, but it will keep you from having engine problems down the road. Plus, everyone is tired of hearing your car making clicking noises. :)


Well, That's my list. I opted for the more hardcore route, as I'm preparing my car for a future SCCA rally. In total, I removed 140 pounds from the car, without having to get rid of trim, seats, spare tires, etc. My gas mileage has risen from 25mpg highway to 34mpg highway, which is not bad for a 10 year old v6 hatchback. In addition to the gas mileage, i've noticed a slight increase in low-end torque. And, I've lost a few pounds myself to boot. :)
 
delsydsoft---Maybe you could get a job helping to write car owner manuals. This was very good.:th:
 
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