From the Debate, Health Care System from Scratch

[Tsukasa Buddha]

In the debate, Obama said that if he wanted to start from scratch, he would do a single payer health care system. But since that is impractical, he is going with his current plan.

Now, I don't want to talk about Obama, so I put this in general Politics.

If you could start a health care system from scratch, so you could instantly create whatever preferred system you wanted, what would you choose? And explain.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I have been thinking, WHY should we be behind? Why couldn't we make this an American project, something to take pride in? To take the lead like in so many other areas, to do it big, to do it better, etc... Why should we have to convince people so hard just to sort of do it? Why can't it be like our space program was? It just dawns on me that we don't think about this in the terms we could

It seems like so many people see a national health care plan as some sort of surrender to outsiders or something

 

[NeoRicen]

I've already got it, Medicare Australia. It has its issues but what do you expect after 11 years of a government ideologically opposed to it.

It's pretty simple too in terms of taxes, everyone pays a mere 1.5% Medicare levy. Works pretty good, you guys should copy it.

I could educate myself a lot on my own country's health care though so you could probably ignore me.

However, even though it's single payer, we still have a large choice in private health insurance, the best of both worlds.

 

[New Ager]

I have been thinking, WHY should we be behind? Why couldn't we make this an American project, something to take pride in? To take the lead like in so many other areas, to do it big, to do it better, etc...

Another big goverment program?!? Something we have a real shortage of. I'll pass.

Why should we have to convince people so hard just to sort of do it? Why can't it be like our space program was? It just dawns on me that we don't think about this in the terms we could.

It seems like so many people see a national health care plan as some sort of surrender to outsiders or something

No, we see it as socialism, which doesn't work. Taxes would be very high and the quality of care would suffer.

Plus, we have health care in this country. No one is denied, but liberals are trying for all to be insured.

The problem is that health insurance is not a right, nor do some even want it. Millions, myself included, decline it. It's not a good deal and it's a commodity just like anything else. If people want it, they can buy it.

And lastly, our government is trillions in debt and run nothing very well. You think they are going to run a program as big as health care any better. Nope.

I'll pass on another big goverment program that will just screw everything up and I will pick my own healthcare when I need it.

 

[JoeEllison]

We don't have to start over from scratch... we have Medicare and SCHIP, both of which work well enough to disprove most of the uninformed rhetoric about government involvement in health care.

Plus, of course, it would naturally be more efficient and cheaper overall than the current system.

 

[pipelineaudio]

If it's 1.5 or 3 % then who cares?

Were paying WAY more than that just giving free health care to the illegals in my neck of the woods. Pay less AND cover me? Im all for it.

 

[corplinx]

If it's 1.5 or 3 % then who cares?

Were paying WAY more than that just giving free health care to the illegals in my neck of the woods. Pay less AND cover me? Im all for it.

The real solution there isn't to change health care, its to get illegals paying taxes.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Stop paying CARB to stick mirrors under my car, when the existing sniffer test is ALL that matters to determine whether or not my car is polluting and I think we can come up with that 1.5%

There's all kinds of junk we could get rid of to pay for this and not be out a penny

 

[SezMe]

The real solution there isn't to change health care, its to get illegals paying taxes.

The real solution is to get illegals out of the country.

 

[Random]

The real solution there isn't to change health care, its to get illegals paying taxes.

Illegal immigrants do pay taxes. You can't live in the US without paying taxes at some point. Sales taxes and gas taxes pop into my head right away, but I am sure that there are others.

Social Security is another big one, as any illegal who works at a job that has money automatically diverted from their paycheck to Social Security is ineligible for benefits.

 

[New Ager]

The real solution is to get illegals out of the country.

...and keep them out.

 

[JoeEllison]

Maybe racism and paranoia aabout illegal immigrants possibly isn't the answer, but more of a distraction from dealing with the problem?

 

[SezMe]

Maybe racism and paranoia aabout illegal immigrants possibly isn't the answer, but more of a distraction from dealing with the problem?

If "the problem" you refer to is how to design a good health care system for the USA, certainly bringing illegal immigration into the discussion is a distraction. But a distraction that will be a powerful flash point and will eventually have to dealt with.

That said, Joe, it is unreasonable for you to raise issues of "racism and paranoia" from the one-sentence post I made.

 

[IMST]

Undocumented immigrants tend to overpay taxes since they're going to have their deductions taken out from their paycheck from any real job (which they do have) but not be able to file for a refund. I know I receive hundreds in refunds every year when I file.
I'd happily pay for health care through taxes. Get rid of the exploitive for profit insurance system and replace it with a system designed to provide for the actual needs of everyone. Probably be a lot cheaper than what we have now. Course, new ager will say it won't work because socialism doesn't work because he said so. Therefore, obviously Europe does not exist, since they have functional economies and socialized medicine.

 

[Tailgater]

What seperates single payer from socialized medicine? I think I know, but can someone clarify?

 

[Praktik]

It seems like so many people see a national health care plan as some sort of surrender to outsiders or something

That's exactly it.

Socialism is the Next Step to Communism, and Un-American (as New Ager's post demonstrates).

These ideas are essentially excluded from the political continuum, due to the way America developed historically.

The spectrum is truncated - and ideas alien to the American tradition stand no chance of inclusion.

This means anything close to socialist health care will be off-the-table, and anything that could be tarred as "socialist" won't happen either (which actually includes a lot of non-socialist ideas that are "left wing" - but close enough right? I mentioned this in other threads but there was a Republican Senator on the floor, I forget her name, that was arguing against that bill last fall supported by the insurance industry as "socialized medecine" - ya - cause those big insurance companies are HUGE Commies!).

It will be at least decades, and probably longer (if ever) before America can accept such a health care system.

 

[Billdave2]

I have a friend who immigrated here from England. He has always complained about the health care system here compared to "back home". That was until his father had a mild heart attack and was told he would need angiplasty. Since he was 62 years old he was lucky enough to "only" have to wait two years for it. Now my friends mother is suffering from the early stages of Alaheimer's. Even though there is no cure for Alzheimer's, there are medicines that help. Except the NHS does not provide them. My friend doesn't complain about our system much anymore.

I am not saying that our system is perfect (far be it) but socialized medicine is the pits. When I was in college, we all paid a fee for the infirmery (it was mandatory). Most people only went there if the were near death because the service was so poor. The Doctors were terrible(most couldn't find other jobs) and made very little money compared to private practice doctors, and the nurses left for better paying jobs if they could. The real problem with the health care in this country is that it costs so much(in time and money) to go to med school, malpractice insurance is sky high, and we expect only the best. When you look at satisfaction surveys that rate the US health care system so low, you have to realize that cost is the main contributer to the low ratings. Quality of health care(services, access to the latest and greatest equipment and knowledge) is higher in the US than anywhere else in the world. Most people in countries with socialized systems don't think it is out of the ordinary to have crappy hospitals with not enough beds, outdated equipment and doctors from third world countries that barely speack the local language and probably could pass a fist year med school class in the US.

 

[Beerina]

What seperates single payer from socialized medicine? I think I know, but can someone clarify?

With the advent of alternative solutions (mandated insurance with a pool for losers, for example) and things that ease the burden (such as tax-free flexible spending accounts, for example), the big government types see their power slipping away. Hence they now deliberately inject "single payer" into the conversation to attempt to keep the focus on gigantic, socialized government programs.

This is from whence they derive their power -- creating large programs that the people then feel they depend on (rightly or wrongly), putting a big roadblock in their opponents getting elected.

In the same big round room in the national archives that displays the Constitution and Declaration of Independence, is a quote on the wall by FDR stating exactly this in bold and no uncertain terms, with respect to the creation of Social Security. Bill & Hillary made a similar statement how they wanted to do the same for their party for medical insurance.

This, my buddies, is why "single payer" is now part of the ongoing narrative by some politicians seeking power.

 

[Beerina]

By the way, see my .sig. Socialized medicine must increase, or at least keep the same, the rate of development of new treatments and cures. If it does not, it is murderous and helps no one in the long run.

If it does, then it should be applicable to other industries, like cars, or computers, or home electronics, or video games.

Anybody think a "single-payer" (read: big government) setting the prices for video games and electronics will increase R&D into them, accelerating the Jetsons-ification of the human condition?

I didn't think so.

 

[JoeEllison]

What seperates single payer from socialized medicine? I think I know, but can someone clarify?

My understanding is that the difference is that under a single payer system the government acts as insurer, and that's about it. By doing so, and having a "customer base" of 300,000,000 people, it can offer more services at a lower price. It works like the largest possible insurance company, except without executives and investors skimming a huge percentage off the top. It doesn't change the system of medicine, it just changes the way we pay for it.

"Socialized medicine", on the other hand, is where doctors are government employees, and hospitals are government-operated. Totally different ball of wax. By conflating the two, critics are engaged in flat-out dishonesty.