From Rapture Ready

[Monster Machine]

I don't even know where to start. I can't believe I thought as this person does for so many years...

I did not make it up, that is what I was saying, it comes from their own writings. It is all the agencies. Most people involved do not realize what they are doing because they do not see the big picture because of the compartmentalization.

Proof, please.

An example is one I just heard. An electrical engineer quit his job because he realized that everything that was available for him to work on was either to spy on people or ingenious ways to kill people.

Did he relate this story before or after his thorazine shot?

The people who come up with solutions may not even realize that the problem their think-tank is working on is to be used to enslave people.

Proof, please.

Spy networks are something long in existence and was started for maintaining the power of the Church. They became infiltrated by progressively more evil people who were willing to carry out these missions. When the CIA was created, guess who they recruited to be the founding members. They were already doing these sorts of nefarious activities but have no elegance to the United States.

Proof, please.

That's a symbolic number and represents the twelve territories of Ancient Israel. It assures us that, even if the world blows up, we still have the inheritance that was promised by God.

So, you are not a biblical literalist?

The difference between "they" and God, is that God has no fear, just regret.

That would mean god didn't really think his plan out when he made the universe. Not very omnipotent then, huh?

These "scientists" want to create their own version of humanity but if they just ask for volunteers to die, they might get some resistance. They are afraid of that and create false enemies in every country. If you lived in another country, your enemy most likely will be, guess who, us. If everyone pulls the trigger at one time, people will believe the propaganda, and assume it was the fault of the "enemy". That way they can look good and will not be attacked for being the real cause of the war.

Proof, please.

Restraint is removed, at some point. The angels do the actual restraining. God only decides when to make it end. So God is not distracted.

I'd like to see some proof on this one from the bible. Also, how can an omnipotent god be distracted?

God has a provision for those who died in the famine and they will live again in the future, but the time for the end of this old world is critical and is not something arbitrary.

More excuses for an impotent god.

Describing insanity is rather useless because if it was something rational, it would not be insanity.

Rational is in the eye of the beholder. I see a whole lotta crazy in these posts....

Yes, they want everyone not under their direct control dead. A good way to do it is to poison the earth or kill people enough with highly explosive devices.
They want to be gods, and they want a nice depopulated earth to do it in.
Let's say you have a nice deep shelter where you do not have to worry about the actual explosions. You still have to live there long enough for things to cool down.
All the poor saps alive on the surface might not have a long life expectancy but they could summon up the energy to take revenge on the people who did this to them, if they were sure who it was, exactly.
Now they have these nice air vents and water supplies that work their way down to the shelter. If you thought one of these bad people were down there, you would figure out a way to disrupt it or poison it or whatever just as long as you could kill the bastards.
So, they work behind the scenes to manipulate events for maximum damage. They fund terrorists to cause strife among nations and do it in a way that they will eventually trace it back to us. If they do not have good enough weapons to attack us, they will provide them with the necessary ones.

Wow.




So, Ethnikos, I would like to see some proof on the points above. It's great to make the outlandish claims you have made. But if you're going to make such claims, you need to back them up or people will think you're a few sandwiches short of a full picnic basket, if you know what I mean.

I would also like you to answer this - the god you are describing sounds weak and easily distracted to the point he has the hired help TCB while he does other stuff.

This is the being that created the universe? By the sounds of it, he couldn't create a peanut butter sandwich.

Monster

 

[Ethnikos]

How about just flooding the Earth, it is claimed to have been done before for precisely the same reason? Would this not make god insane by that standard?

No, he had a legitimate reason to have regretted ever making man because of how evil they became. Because someone might question God for having destroyed the earth for no good reason, He is allowing men to play things out so there will be no question of how deserving they are of being destroyed.

Again it has been claimed to have been tried before by another supposed god.

Right, there was God who created the earth with no humans on it before he put them there. Once God did, they were people who resembled Him. If you were out there enough to believe you were god, you would want to emulate the real God and populate the earth with people in your own image.

You certainly seem to go out of your way to invent these scenarios “Describing insanity” of ‘these’ people that seem not so insane when ‘they’ are protecting ‘themselves‘? I ask again, do you listen to yourself.

They would never have to go out of there way to protect themselves if they were not planning unspeakably dastardly deeds.

 

[supercorgi]

Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years.
The fact that you imagine that good will alway prevail, suggests to me that you are not fully aware of the dark cloud coming over the world.
Things are going to be very bad, and very soon, not because the "good" people wish it on the bad people, but because it is the other way around.
Jesus raptures the church, not as a joke on the "bad" people but because if he did not, they would be killed one way or another.
The fact that we (the earth) have not experienced nuclear war is because God has restrained the hand reaching for the button. Soon enough, Satan's plan will work out. You are not going to be able to go along with your happy life, enjoying the goodness all around you, once the bombs go off.

So Ethnikos, it seem clear that you a religous/conspiracy nutjob. We're not about to destroy ourselves in any such dramatic way. We've lived through the age of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) in the 60's and 70's when the US and Russia had their fingers on the button. But rationality prevailed and it didn't happen. So your paranoid fantasies are unlikely.

Horrible things do happen, but mostly at the hand of religious (sure not your religion) extremists. But good people, of whatever religion, care about the world, their families, and their friends. Most people want to live in peace, to raise their children, love their families, and in some cases just to survive.

You say: "Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years." Yeah sure you do. You just can't wait for the Rapture to prove us all sinners wrong.

I really feel sorry for people like you. People that can not appreciate the beauty of the world as it is right now, and instead, focus on a world doomed to destruction and judgement. It's such a small minded and depressing view that I don't understand how you tolerate it.

 

[Hokulele]

You say: "Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years." Yeah sure you do. You just can't wait for the Rapture to prove us all sinners wrong.

Well, Christians like Ethnikos probably would love a "Leave It To Beaver" world.

Minorities and women, not so much.

 

[paximperium]

No, he had a legitimate reason to have regretted ever making man because of how evil they became.

So your god is a genocidal mass murderer who killed untold numbers of men, women and children in your fantasy book. End of story.

Right, there was God who created the earth with no humans on it before he put them there. Once God did, they were people who resembled Him. If you were out there enough to believe you were god, you would want to emulate the real God and populate the earth with people in your own image.

So humans are doing exactly what they were "designed" to do. To emulate what they resemble, a homicidal, egotistical genocidal god.

They would never have to go out of there way to protect themselves if they were not planning unspeakably dastardly deeds.

Protect themselves from the crazies? People tend to protect themselves from lunatics by locking them up.

And has been asked. Do you listen to yourself?

 

[Ethnikos]

Once again, we see how fear dominates.

The evil ones need to be afraid because they do the works of evil. Christians need not fear because their salvation is assured.

Nothing's going to save us from ourselves. We are all we have, and we'll sink or swim together or separately. Being afraid of each other is what we do. Fear and the urge to reproduce are what have led us to produce everything we have.

Tell that to the Global elite. They are the problem. They hate humanity and look at us as nothing better and maybe worse than animals. Again, the fear is that before they can kill everyone, people will wake up to the fact that they are being killed and try to do something about it. The fact that the populous, as a whole is not afraid is what makes the elite feel justified in killing us because it is perceived by them as evidence that we are so many dumb animals.

There is no loving superfather or supermother in the nether who will either rescue us, or destroy us. But the idea of such a being, the idea alone, has divided and torn us for centuries. It's our idea, we made it up, and we enforce it. But the fact remains, it is we who do it all.

There are always men who want to lord it over others and religion is the easiest way to do that because people have a natural inclination to look to a higher power, and there is always someone ready to jump in and claim to be god or someone you have to go through to find god.

If more people would get their heads out of the clouds, or out of their own behinds, and look at what needs doing right here, right now, it would help a lot of folks who desperately need help. But that won't happen, because the ones who need to do the helping are just too damned scared.

It's such a shame.

Amen to that, brother. I do not buy into the pre-tribulation rapture thing because it gives people an excuse to sit back and let things go to hell because they think they will not have to live in the hell they see being made around them. It is pathetic.

 

[Paulhoff]

Magical thinking begets magical thinking begets............

I still waiting for someone to show me a real god, not these so-called gods that have problems with the beings that they create, and their only solution is killing.

Paul

 

[Ethnikos]

I never meant to imply that you did.

There is a large amount of this stuff out there because they feel they are at the point that no one will be able to stop them now.

Can you be more specific?

David Rockefeller just came out with a new statement saying that if people want to accuse him of being a globalist and manipulating things in world politics to bring it about, then fine because he is happy to admit it is true.

This part is kind of hard for me to believe. If the conspiracy is so large already that these people have access to the entire world's stock of nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, and have access to every delivery system ever devised, why would they have some mid- to entry-level electrical engineer work on new ways to kill people. It doesn't make sense. Isn't the more logical explanation that the electric engineer either made up the story, or misunderstood his options, or was suffering from mental illness?

Nuclear weapons are obviously not the cleanest way to do the job and is the last resort method, only to be used in the case that people do wake up to what is going on. they would rather do it by spreading bio-weapons that are two part. That way, there is no way they will not get the disease themselves. the perfect way is to spread an engineered virus and as soon as people have it, they immediately force mandatory vaccinations with the second part that combines and then kills you. they, of course will know better than to take it. The total surveillance on the people will allow them to make sure everyone takes the shots.

 

[paximperium]

The evil ones need to be afraid because they do the works of evil. Christians need not fear because their salvation is assured.

Translation: Worship my god or he will kill you.

Tell that to the Global elite. They are the problem. They hate humanity and look at us as nothing better and maybe worse than animals. Again, the fear is that before they can kill everyone, people will wake up to the fact that they are being killed and try to do something about it. The fact that the populous, as a whole is not afraid is what makes the elite feel justified in killing us because it is perceived by them as evidence that we are so many dumb animals.

Still waiting for evidence to back up your paranoid fantasy.

There are always men who want to lord it over others and religion is the easiest way to do that because people have a natural inclination to look to a higher power, and there is always someone ready to jump in and claim to be god or someone you have go through to find god.

So what criteria do you use to know if YOU are the right side or are you making things up as you go along?

Amen to that, brother. I do not buy into the pre-tribulation rapture thing because it gives people an excuse to sit back and let things go to hell because they think they will not have to live in the hell they see being made around them. It is pathetic.

I'm actually all for it. It prevents nuts from attempting to actually try to cause the events in their fantasies.

 

[paximperium]

Nuclear weapons are obviously not the cleanest way to do the job and is the last resort method, only to be used in the case that people do wake up to what is going on. they would rather do it by spreading bio-weapons that are two part. That way, there is no way they will not get the disease themselves. the perfect way is to spread an engineered virus and as soon as people have it, they immediately force mandatory vaccinations with the second part that combines and then kills you. they, of course will know better than to take it. The total surveillance on the people will allow them to make sure everyone takes the shots.

In the real world when people ask for evidence, you are suppose to present evidence NOT produce more fantasy.

Why are religious right wingers almost universally also Anti-vaxers?

 

[Ethnikos]

I don't even know where to start. I can't believe I thought as this person does for so many years...

You decided to not believe in conspiracies? So you believe David Koresh killed his own people and an amfo bomb took down the Murrow building, and 19 Arab hijackers pulled off 911?

So, you are not a biblical literalist?

The Book of Revelation is pure symbology. Of course there are real events that are described in it but there are things that are meaningless in a literal way, like all the colors that have certain meanings that they represent.

That would mean god didn't really think his plan out when he made the universe. Not very omnipotent then, huh?

He is omnipotent, but that does not mean he has to create a universe that is predetermined. He can be omniscient and not prescient. In order to make a universe to put a man in it who will be like Him, (god-like) He made a world where man has free will. For man to have free will, the nature of the universe and how it works has to be at least partially random. God can predict things and He can cause things to happen within the degree of flexibility of a random world, to have his will be done, but it requires constant consciousness of what is happening, as it happens.

I'd like to see some proof on this one from the bible. Also, how can an omnipotent god be distracted?

The four angels who hold back the winds.

So, Ethnikos, I would like to see some proof on the points above. It's great to make the outlandish claims you have made. But if you're going to make such claims, you need to back them up or people will think you're a few sandwiches short of a full picnic basket, if you know what I mean.

There is lots of proof for this stuff if you look for it. Probably my best source is Dr. Deagle who has a radio show and web site. He thrives on whistle-blowers.

I would also like you to answer this - the god you are describing sounds weak and easily distracted to the point he has the hired help TCB while he does other stuff.

God allocates work on a wide scale. He has spirit beings numbered in the trillions to carry out the work. I do not have a problem with that. God is so far above us as to what He/She is that he is at least four steps above us and we do not even understand the ones two steps below Him/Her.

This is the being that created the universe? By the sounds of it, he couldn't create a peanut butter sandwich.

Monster

Hmm. Well I realize I can not adequately describe God and what seems to be slackness in Him to us, is really compassion.

 

[Ethnikos]

So Ethnikos, it seem clear that you a religous/conspiracy nutjob. We're not about to destroy ourselves in any such dramatic way. We've lived through the age of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) in the 60's and 70's when the US and Russia had their fingers on the button. But rationality prevailed and it didn't happen. So your paranoid fantasies are unlikely.

You obviously are not up to date on our nuclear policy. What kept us safe was what is called Launch on Warning. Our new policy is to launch after a first strike has ended. We have a nice little deal with the Russians that we keep half of our submarines in port at all times so they can take them all out with a first strike that we plan to absorb. Their words, not mine.

Horrible things do happen, but mostly at the hand of religious (sure not your religion) extremists. But good people, of whatever religion, care about the world, their families, and their friends. Most people want to live in peace, to raise their children, love their families, and in some cases just to survive.

That is true. The only problem is there is a new religion which is really an old religion which is told in Daniel,"they worship a god of fortresses, which their fathers did not recognize." That was who he describes as bringing in the end of the world.

You say: "Christians do not wish evil on anyone and would be quite happy for things to just continue on like Leave It To Beaver for hundreds of more years." Yeah sure you do. You just can't wait for the Rapture to prove us all sinners wrong.

I was brought up on the idea that the world was going to end in our life time and I have always hated it. I wish it was not true but I see all the things happening in our face, that was foretold.

I really feel sorry for people like you. People that can not appreciate the beauty of the world as it is right now, and instead, focus on a world doomed to destruction and judgment. It's such a small minded and depressing view that I don't understand how you tolerate it.

I do appreciate the world. I have kayaks and go out and enjoy things that are natural and beautiful. I used to spend a lot of time hiking in the mountains and being in nature. I love people and do not want bad things to happen to them. That is why I would take the trouble of warning them, so they can escape the calamities that are coming.

 

[Ethnikos]

So what criteria do you use to know if YOU are the right side or are you making things up as you go along?

I am constantly fighting that religion on the religion forums. The idea that there is a priesthood we have to go to to get our salvation, one piece at a time. So that would be my criteria, that if you say, "I have the power to give or not give your piece of daily salvation, so respect my authority." then you are wrong, without any further investigation.

 

[dropzone]

There are a few definitions for the Greek word translated as virgin.
The number two definition has to do with becoming ceremonially defiled, as in engaging the temple whores of the pagans.

So that's a "no?" Since your member has not been sullied by a temple whore, though it has by innumerable street whores, you retain your virginity?

I jumped to the last page to see if it had advanced in theological depth from the first. On the one hand, no. On the other hand, the posters on Page 1 have NOTHING on Ethnikos. Rapturists, I know a few. Outright NUTS are harder to find.

 

[Ethnikos]

So that's a "no?" Since your member has not been sullied by a temple whore, though it has by innumerable street whores, you retain your virginity?

I looked it up yesterday because someone asked the same sort of thing. on another forum I was on. My statement is based on what I remember but you might want to look it up yourself. I was using NetBible. The idea is something to do with idolatry. What I like to do is compare it to the ones who fornicate with the whore in scarlet and purple who rides on the back of the Beast, in Revelation.
So, right, street whores do not count.

I jumped to the last page to see if it had advanced in theological depth from the first. On the one hand, no. On the other hand, the posters on Page 1 have NOTHING on Ethnikos. Rapturists, I know a few. Outright NUTS are harder to find.

That's why I have to periodically come on this forum to see how crazy I come off. Where I normally post, people think I am very reasonable.
Seriously, we are living in a world where TV is completely government controlled. Go on-line and read the European and Russian and English papers and find out we are not given even half of what is going on. Overseas, people are laughing at us for how stupid we are. Pravda has headlines "America goes into Marxism Without a Whimper".

 

[paximperium]

I am constantly fighting that religion on the religion forums. The idea that there is a priesthood we have to go to to get our salvation, one piece at a time. So that would be my criteria, that if you say, "I have the power to give or not give your piece of daily salvation, so respect my authority." then you are wrong, without any further investigation.

So basically, "Whatever I feel like."

 

[Ethnikos]

So basically, "Whatever I feel like."

I suppose, yes. I am trying to think of a reason why we would need a big institution that feeds off us for its support that has a large number of paid people who's job it is to be intercessors between us and heaven, giving us salvation with one hand and punishing us with the other. God has made provision for us in understanding his word. The official so-called church, which is really a corporation, if left on its own and given a status of being unquestionable in its authority, would never bother actually teaching the masses about the fine points of theology, but treat their charges as so many slaves, living themselves in splendor and fat, with the peasants working all day toiling and living in hovels and hungry.
We can do a lot better by being allowed to own our own personal Bible where we can read it with our own understanding, and asking God for direct revelation to what it means, spiritually.

 

[GeeMack]

I suppose, yes. I am trying to think of a reason why we would need a big institution that feeds off us for its support that has a large number of paid people who's job it is to be intercessors between us and heaven, giving us salvation with one hand and punishing us with the other.

But giving you salvation with one hand and punishing you with the other pretty much sums up the consensus view of the Christian god. You're just talking about leaving out the middle-man. Of course you'd agree that is no more rational than buying into the church.

 

[Paulhoff]

When is this so-called christian (and the other) so-called gods, going to speak up for themselves? I'm a little tired of all these people spinning their versions of what it has to say.

Paul

 

[Ethnikos]

But giving you salvation with one hand and punishing you with the other pretty much sums up the consensus view of the Christian god. You're just talking about leaving out the middle-man. Of course you'd agree that is no more rational than buying into the church.

My contributions on this forum have a way of ending up as lectures on religion.
Rational, I think so from a nonbeliever's viewpoint but based on belief, from mine. It is not only right, but imperative, on our parts. With blessings come much responsibility, and we need to "work out our own salvation" meaning to come to it on our own. Also "do not let any man call you father" pretty much kills the idea of a priesthood.