French student protests

[Safe-Keeper]

Surprised there isn't a thread on this already.
In France, furious high schoolers are protesting and rioting and blocking the entrances to their schools in protest of atrocious conditions at campuses.
There have also been agitators, called 'Black Bloc' or 'Casseurs' in French, mixed in, who seems to have no connection to the cause, but are just there to stir up trouble and pick fights.

Several schools have apparently been put on fire, and the police response has been criticized for being exceptionally violent. The cops have been instructed to no longer use concussion grenades (if that's what they're called in English) on protesters.

This follows a pattern in French culture where protests easily turn heated or violent. Wish it wasn't so, but doubt it'll change any time soon.

Having said that, though... Despite my feelings about this, I can name at least one US university that could do with getting burned down by a mob.

 

[Flo]

According to Trump, it has nothing to do with conditions in schools, it is about islam having taken over European societies …

Seriously, we're in a pre-electoral year, and both the far right and the far left need to mobilise as many people as they can. LePen and the RN need chaos (hence the black bloc "casseurs" interventions to escalate the protests into riots) in order to persuade voters that the country is in peril and only them can save it; Mélenchon needs protests in order to persuade voters he has the answers and will return the country to social peace and justice. Both carry water for Moscow …

 

[Flo]

I've been discussing it on a French speaking board, and my linking the timing of the riots with the political situation in France and more generally in the context of the asymmetrical war waged by Moscow against the main EU countries has not been well received …

There's such an opposition to the politics of the Macron government, and such a tunnel vision that makes it almost impossible to view French politics in a larger context; it makes the idea of those riots being anything other than spontaneous almost sacrilegious.

French people are still attached to romantic versions of the 1789 revolution or the 1968 students revolts. In the last case, they still haven't realised how much the riots were manipulated by both Moscow and the far right (I remember a guy telling us how he was encouraged to shoot stones at the police from a building, in order to induce violence against unarmed students. He was mostly apolitical but found it funny and lucrative).

Call me cynical, but the parallels …

 

[malbui]

I continue to maintain that the only good things to emerge from the Spring of 1968 were that my wife and I exist. There wasn’t just revolution in the air.

 

[malbui]

On a more serious note, the students and lycéens are always going to find something to protest about. The unions and professional troublemakers are always going to join in, and the political extremes are going to make capital out of it. It’s just the way the country works. My kids were always smart enough to have a lazy morning and then catch up on homework in the afternoons.

 

[dudalb]

I've been discussing it on a French speaking board, and my linking the timing of the riots with the political situation in France and more generally in the context of the asymmetrical war waged by Moscow against the main EU countries has not been well received …

There's such an opposition to the politics of the Macron government, and such a tunnel vision that makes it almost impossible to view French politics in a larger context; it makes the idea of those riots being anything other than spontaneous almost sacrilegious.

French people are still attached to romantic versions of the 1789 revolution or the 1968 students revolts. In the last case, they still haven't realised how much the riots were manipulated by both Moscow and the far right (I remember a guy telling us how he was encouraged to shoot stones at the police from a building, in order to induce violence against unarmed students. He was mostly apolitical but found it funny and lucrative).

Call me cynical, but the parallels …

Voltaire said back in the 1700's that he was thankful for the government in France, for without it there would be nothing to laugh at.
Yeah, the French seem to romanticise the 1789 revolution, they seem to forget how it ended up: In a Military Dictatorship.

 

[Norman Alexander]

On a more serious note, the students and lycéens are always going to find something to protest about. The unions and professional troublemakers are always going to join in, and the political extremes are going to make capital out of it. It’s just the way the country works. My kids were always smart enough to have a lazy morning and then catch up on homework in the afternoons.

I have been round long enough to believe it's a generational right of passage for French students. A bas le...whatever.

 

[dudalb]

Rioting through out France. I love the logic of this: Let's portest police brutality that behaving in ways will justify police brutiality to many people.

 

[dudalb]

Please explain to me why stuff like this is somehow justified.
https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c6e3xjw37wn7o

 

[dudalb]

I think that if things do not settle down we will see The Army called in in France to control the situation.

 

[angrysoba]

French people are still attached to romantic versions of the 1789 revolution or the 1968 students revolts.

Or 1848, or more recently the gilets jaunes riots and the pension riots, etc...

I think that is definitely a big part of it. In a sense, the idea of the French Republic is one that is predicated on revolt.

It's amazing to hear a lot of Americans claiming that these violent protests are some kind of alien element introduced by the Muslims or the Africans. I'm halfway through The Rest is History podcast about the French Revolution. If anything, seeing immigrants joining protests and riots is an example of cultural assimilation.

And yes, they are insane and obviously far removed at this point from any ostensible rational argument. At this point it is people having fun burning cars and buildings, looting shops and having a ruck with the cops and nothing to do with the condition of schools. How can anyone expect the government to spend more money on public services when they have to spend so much of it getting public order and rebuilding.

 

[Puppycow]

At this point it is people having fun burning cars and buildings, looting shops and having a ruck with the cops and nothing to do with the condition of schools. How can anyone expect the government to spend more money on public services when they have to spend so much of it getting public order and rebuilding.

Yup. Destructive violence is never going to create more money for the schools. Money has to be diverted to repairing the damage and public order.

 

[Flo]

It's amazing to hear a lot of Americans claiming that these violent protests are some kind of alien element introduced by the Muslims or the Africans. I'm halfway through The Rest is History podcast about the French Revolution. If anything, seeing immigrants joining protests and riots is an example of cultural assimilation.

It's not only Americans, the local far right is pushing the same idea.

And yes, they are insane and obviously far removed at this point from any ostensible rational argument. At this point it is people having fun burning cars and buildings, looting shops and having a ruck with the cops and nothing to do with the condition of schools. How can anyone expect the government to spend more money on public services when they have to spend so much of it getting public order and rebuilding.

As usual, there are 3 different kinds of participants: protesters, who do have an agenda and rational arguments (30 years of "reforms" leading nowhere and a constant reduction of budgets on education), rioters (from the far-right or the far-left) who are making sure any protest turns into chaos, and opportunists looters.

 

[malbui]

It's not only Americans, the local far right is pushing the same idea.

As usual, there are 3 different kinds of participants: protesters, who do have an agenda and rational arguments (30 years of "reforms" leading nowhere and a constant reduction of budgets on education), rioters (from the far-right or the far-left) who are making sure any protest turns into chaos, and opportunists looters.

Once again Flo sums this up perfectly.

 

[lionking]

On our second last visit to Paris 10 years ago we stayed in a hotel on Place de la Republique for a week.We felt we were in a safe, secure place. How sad to see it populated by rioters and riot police.

 

[dudalb]

French Police admit they have lost control of the situation in several parts of France.
I guess calling the Army is next step...perhaps it might be necessary; you can;t let the mobs take over.
I feel, the protestors have legitimate grivences, but this kind of rioting does nothing good.
No wonder the world often shakes their head over how France is ran.

 

[dudalb]

Or 1848, or more recently the gilets jaunes riots and the pension riots, etc...

I think that is definitely a big part of it. In a sense, the idea of the French Republic is one that is predicated on revolt.

It's amazing to hear a lot of Americans claiming that these violent protests are some kind of alien element introduced by the Muslims or the Africans. I'm halfway through The Rest is History podcast about the French Revolution. If anything, seeing immigrants joining protests and riots is an example of cultural assimilation.

And yes, they are insane and obviously far removed at this point from any ostensible rational argument. At this point it is people having fun burning cars and buildings, looting shops and having a ruck with the cops and nothing to do with the condition of schools. How can anyone expect the government to spend more money on public services when they have to spend so much of it getting public order and rebuilding.

Bitter fact extremist on both the left and right will resort to mob violence.
Yeah, the French do seem addicted to a very romantic view of the French Revolution, forgetting it ended in a dictorship, first that of the Commitee of Public Safety and the "Incorruptible" Robespierre, then the directoroy,and finally an out and out military dictatroship under Napoleon.
This is why I shake my head that one of the more militrant left wing magazines in the US calls itself the Jacobins. The Jacobines are nothing to be admired in my book.

 

[Flo]

On our second last visit to Paris 10 years ago we stayed in a hotel on Place de la Republique for a week.We felt we were in a safe, secure place. How sad to see it populated by rioters and riot police.

It is a safe place most of the time (and when it isn't, just step 2 streets away and you'll see no trouble at all), but the usual itinerary for protests and manifestations of all kinds is from Place de la Bastille to Place de la République. And contrary to general opinion, they aren't a daily event

Years ago I was arriving in Gare de Lyon from Geneva for the World Kendo championships and was supposed to welcome the rest of the Swiss team at Gare de l'Est, then take them to Stade de Coubertin. A day of strikes and protests. No metro, no taxis, had to walk through parallel streets carrying all my gear (about 15kg) to get there in time, after managing to hire a bus that met us at the station. Great times, I still had knees at that time …

 

[Flo]

French Police admit they have lost control of the situation in several parts of France.
I guess calling the Army is next step...perhaps it might be necessary; you can;t let the mobs take over.
I feel, the protestors have legitimate grivences, but this kind of rioting does nothing good.
No wonder the world often shakes their head over how France is ran.

The French police are whining after having once more used violent and repressive practices that have repeatedly proved ineffective, unless you want to escalate things.
They have failed once more to heed the warnings from those who have been asking for ages that something be done against violent groups like black blocks/anarchists ahead of protests, and of course to try to differentiate between the bona fide protesters and the provocateurs, to the delight of the far right that is encouraging, nay demanding, violent answers to social protests (and a little of the far left).

 

[Planigale]

Surprised there isn't a thread on this already.
In France, furious high schoolers are protesting and rioting and blocking the entrances to their schools in protest of atrocious conditions at campuses.
There have also been agitators, called 'Black Bloc' or 'Casseurs' in French, mixed in, who seems to have no connection to the cause, but are just there to stir up trouble and pick fights.

Several schools have apparently been put on fire, and the police response has been criticized for being exceptionally violent. The cops have been instructed to no longer use concussion grenades (if that's what they're called in English) on protesters.

This follows a pattern in French culture where protests easily turn heated or violent. Wish it wasn't so, but doubt it'll change any time soon.

Having said that, though... Despite my feelings about this, I can name at least one US university that could do with getting burned down by a mob.

Stun grenades in British English, occasionally 'Flash-Bangs'. I don't think that these are available to British police.