shanek said:
I'm not saying they shouldn't be on the bench. What I am saying is that they will be represented. It doesn't matter so much if it is on the bench since they will certainly be represented by the witnesses.
That is the thing with tyrants. Their crimes are so great, it is impossible to have every victim, or family members of every victim, speak.
TillEulenspiegel
Master Poster
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Gosh It appears no one here really know's history, and if they do they put some kind of revisionist, vis-a-vis slant on it.
Saddam was a creation of the American....no that not quite right, he was his and circumstances own creation , but was nurtured and fed by ST.Ronald, like some kind of vile beast ( which he turned out to be. ). This was a continuation that was Americas war by proxy effort, with a new twist , the focus of the snarling dog was not the Soviet Union , but the fundamentalist radical regime in Iran.
You remember some of the friends we nurtured don't you? Great Democrats like Pinochet, Norieaga, Marcos, Freedom fighters like the fundamentalist Islamisists who would soon become Taliban and OSB's Al-Quida, Anastasio Somoza, ( this one was a good one , a 2 parter, American backed despot overthrown, commie -Orteaga, paid for insurgency, many years of war , lotsa peasants and nuns and priests killed and the Americaniestas win again ! yeah! ) meanwhile back in Iraq......
The US in the '80's while maintaining diplomatic neutrality in the Iran Iraq war that Saddam stared on the peripheral peripheral understanding that the US or NATO others would not interfere ( now remember this point for later ref. ) , gave ,GAVE Saddam, Intelligencr info, CBW warfare info and explicit dynamic instructions as to thier use, read that last one again , it will come in useful in the WMD debacle,including precursor chemicals and active anthrax cultures and we sold him machine tools that could be used for weps, and relaxed export controls , SPECIFICALLY designed to give him computer modeling hardware and software systems for weps programs
The guy gasses Iranian troops .We knew it .......We supplied the info...........We supplied precursor chemicals.
The Guy gasses his own people...""............""............"".................................................................................................""
So on a fine day in April ( how ironic )we send April Gillespie, Ms. Gillespie's position , one that was explicitly stated to her by George I, was that the United States did not interfere in the domestic affairs of other nations. Saddam seeing that and seeing the help he got from the US in the IR/IQ war, sez to himself by Allah let's go!
The bottom line is WE ( well St.Ronald and c. ) made this evil and the fact that we overthrow him and captured him is just, not independently just like our interssion in WWI and II , nut the price we must pay for the political oversights of our leaders AND our complicity by embracing them.
The observations and tenor of the remarks of certain people on this thread is something one could have heard in '72 from Archie Bunker or any half drunk steel worker on a Friday night in reference to Vietnam, it ignores history but conveys a sense of the depth of the poster.
Saddam was a creation of the American....no that not quite right, he was his and circumstances own creation , but was nurtured and fed by ST.Ronald, like some kind of vile beast ( which he turned out to be. ). This was a continuation that was Americas war by proxy effort, with a new twist , the focus of the snarling dog was not the Soviet Union , but the fundamentalist radical regime in Iran.
You remember some of the friends we nurtured don't you? Great Democrats like Pinochet, Norieaga, Marcos, Freedom fighters like the fundamentalist Islamisists who would soon become Taliban and OSB's Al-Quida, Anastasio Somoza, ( this one was a good one , a 2 parter, American backed despot overthrown, commie -Orteaga, paid for insurgency, many years of war , lotsa peasants and nuns and priests killed and the Americaniestas win again ! yeah! ) meanwhile back in Iraq......
The US in the '80's while maintaining diplomatic neutrality in the Iran Iraq war that Saddam stared on the peripheral peripheral understanding that the US or NATO others would not interfere ( now remember this point for later ref. ) , gave ,GAVE Saddam, Intelligencr info, CBW warfare info and explicit dynamic instructions as to thier use, read that last one again , it will come in useful in the WMD debacle,including precursor chemicals and active anthrax cultures and we sold him machine tools that could be used for weps, and relaxed export controls , SPECIFICALLY designed to give him computer modeling hardware and software systems for weps programs
The guy gasses Iranian troops .We knew it .......We supplied the info...........We supplied precursor chemicals.
The Guy gasses his own people...""............""............"".................................................................................................""
So on a fine day in April ( how ironic )we send April Gillespie, Ms. Gillespie's position , one that was explicitly stated to her by George I, was that the United States did not interfere in the domestic affairs of other nations. Saddam seeing that and seeing the help he got from the US in the IR/IQ war, sez to himself by Allah let's go!
The bottom line is WE ( well St.Ronald and c. ) made this evil and the fact that we overthrow him and captured him is just, not independently just like our interssion in WWI and II , nut the price we must pay for the political oversights of our leaders AND our complicity by embracing them.
The observations and tenor of the remarks of certain people on this thread is something one could have heard in '72 from Archie Bunker or any half drunk steel worker on a Friday night in reference to Vietnam, it ignores history but conveys a sense of the depth of the poster.
TillEulenspiegel said:
I think in several threads now everybody has already agreed that we created him. we also acknoweldged the creation of others and hope that we learned that the enemy of our enemy may soon be ours. I was in the Marines when Ronnie backed the guy agaisnt Iran, I was in the Marines when we went and removed him from Kuwait. Hell, Washington and Jefferson weren't against slavery, but Lincoln took over and things changed. Get over it
We embraced Communist Russia in our fight against the Nazis. We embraced Islamic fundamentalists in our fight against Communist Russia. We embraced Saddam in our fight against Islamic fundamentalists. Sooner or later you’d think we would learn that you don’t go to bed with someone you don’t want to wake up next to.
Unfortunately, when you suggest this sort of thing, people accuse you of being an liberal idealist. Of course, considering the endless cycles of crap that pragmatism yields, I’m not sure idealism is really such a bad thing.
Unfortunately, when you suggest this sort of thing, people accuse you of being an liberal idealist. Of course, considering the endless cycles of crap that pragmatism yields, I’m not sure idealism is really such a bad thing.
peptoabysmal
Illuminator
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- 3,466
shanek said:
Really? Every single Kurd will be called as a witness? How long will this trial last???
I have a feeling that Saddam will be tried in Iraq, using legal protocols set up by the UN. This trial will be a life sentence in and of itself. The testimonies will be played on all the major news channels at regular intervals. The horrors of 30 years of rule by Saddam will be laid out for all to see. The testimonies will go on and on and on.
My guess is that; politically, the capture of Saddam makes the whole WMD/No WMD thing into a minor background issue now. Oh, there will still be those ranting on and on about it, but no one will be listening. It's just not news anymore, and there is no Senate investigation into the matter. It could matter again if there is a Senate investigation, but I really doubt that there is any (legally binding) proof that Bush deliberately and willfully lied to start a war, so there will not be any such investigation.
How we handle the rebuilding of Iraq from here on out and if we can get control of security in Iraq will now become the dominating factors of the media blitz and the coming election with regards to the Iraq war.
Who do you think is more upset by the news of Saddam's capture? Howard Dean or Jacques Chirac?