Freedom of speech in jeopardy

[Puppycow]

Fighting Over Online Sex Ads

In September 2010, Craigslist, which hosted a great deal of sexually related advertising, bowed to pressure and banned that advertising in the United States. A number of crimes, including several murders, had been linked to ads on the site, and many critics, including a number of state attorneys general, suggested that Craigslist was enabling the trafficking of minors.

A significant portion of the estimated $44 million in sex-related advertising on Craigslist found a home on Backpage.com. Like a lot of newspapers, Village Voice Media’s chain of 13 weeklies has struggled through the terrible economic cycle and big changes in advertising spending, so the revenue from Backpage.com, much of it unrelated to sex, has played a critical role in its survival.

But in August the country’s 51 attorneys general sent a letter demanding that the site close its “adult” section, and now a coalition of religious leaders has joined that effort. Last Tuesday, Groundswell, an interfaith social justice group sponsored by Auburn Seminary in New York, published a full-page ad in The New York Times that was signed by clergy members of all stripes and cited the arrests of adults who had sold minors for sex using Backpage.com. The ad stated, “It is a basic fact of the moral universe that girls and boys should not be sold for sex.”

Here's what they say they do to prevent ads for minors:

In a phone call, he and Mr. Larkin pointed out that Web sites like Backpage.com are not legally responsible for posted content and added that the company had spent millions on both human and technological efforts to screen ads that feature minors. They said they had worked with law enforcement officials and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in an effort to make sure Backpage.com’s “adult” section included only adults.

We don't blame the maker of a gun if the gun is used by a criminal. We don't blame the maker of a car if its driver disobeys traffic laws. But they want to shut this whole business down because of a few bad actors.

 

[uk_dave]

We don't blame the maker of a gun if the gun is used by a criminal. We don't blame the maker of a car if its driver disobeys traffic laws. But they want to shut this whole business down because of a few bad actors.

ummmmm but surely you do blame a gun dealer if he sells a gun to a person whose known intent is to commit a crime?

Similarly, do you not apportion any blame to a car dealer who sells a car to someone who is visibly drunk if they are to drive it away there and then?

If consumers can tell what these ads are for, and if that is something illegal, how difficult is it to vet the damn things first?

 

[Puppycow]

ummmmm but surely you do blame a gun dealer if he sells a gun to a person whose known intent is to commit a crime?

Similarly, do you not apportion any blame to a car dealer who sells a car to someone who is visibly drunk if they are to drive it away there and then?

If consumers can tell what these ads are for, and if that is something illegal, how difficult is it to vet the damn things first?

Not analogous. They say that they spend millions of dollars to screen out ads that feature minors.

It would be like selling a gun to someone whose intent to commit a crime is not known or obvious to the seller, or a car to someone who is not visibly drunk. The responsibility should be to make reasonable efforts, not to be omniscient.

 

[Muldur]

Aiding and abetting a criminal act (the sale of sexual services) is not protected speech.

Nor is obscenity.

 

[rustypouch]

Aiding and abetting a criminal act (the sale of sexual services) is not protected speech.

Nor is obscenity.

Land of the free, indeed.

 

[Mr.D]

Well, I'm sure that if Backpage does close down its adult section, then all the advertisers that moved from Craigslist will just give up and close up shop.

No, I can't possibly see any unintended but entirely predictable consequences at all.

 

[tyr_13]

Aiding and abetting a criminal act (the sale of sexual services) is not protected speech.

It doesn't seem that they are aiding and abetting. I just checked, and their disclaimer/terms of use even requires that one report sexual ads with minors to the authorities.

Nor is obscenity.

**** that.

 

[Ryokan]

It doesn't seem that they are aiding and abetting. I just checked, and their disclaimer/terms of use even requires that one report sexual ads with minors to the authorities.

I think the point isn't that there might be sexual ads with minors, but that there's sexual ads at all - making it basically prostitution, which is illegal in quite a few places.

 

[Multivac]

Aiding and abetting a criminal act (the sale of sexual services) is not protected speech.

Nor is obscenity.

Sexual services between consenting adults should be legal.

Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. Acts and images that are obscene to one observer will be everyday recreation for others.

 

[The Don]

Sexual services between consenting adults should be legal.

That's as maybe (there are many threads about that subject on these boards) but it is still illegal in many (most ?) US jurisdictions.

 

[BenBurch]

Seriously I don't know why the cops hate Craigslist. It doesn't make prostitution happen, that has been something no government in the history of man has ever been able to prevent. What it does is make prostitution easy to detect, and prosecute.

 

[dogjones]

What is freedom of speech?

 

[tyr_13]

I think the point isn't that there might be sexual ads with minors, but that there's sexual ads at all - making it basically prostitution, which is illegal in quite a few places.

Oh, that makes more sense.

 

[Arcade22]

Freedom of speech in America? Tell that to Mike Diana.

 

[Muldur]

Land of the free, indeed.

There is not now, and never HAS been any such thing as universal, unlimited freedom.

 

[Muldur]

It doesn't seem that they are aiding and abetting. I just checked, and their disclaimer/terms of use even requires that one report sexual ads with minors to the authorities.

Which is a legal "fig leaf" to cover them from "aiding and abetting" charges...yet they continue to accept those ads on their site (and presumedly make money off of the traffic to and from them like on any other site).

I'm remineded of Louis in Casablanca, the scene where he is forced to come up with a pretext for closing "Rick's" :

Louis: "I'm shocked...SHOCKED to discover that gambling is going on in here!"

Waiter: "Your winnings sir..."

Louis (takes money): "Thank you. Thank you very much!"

 

[Muldur]

Sexual services between consenting adults should be legal.

The majority of Americans do not agree with you.

Obscenity is in the eye of the beholder. Acts and images that are obscene to one observer will be everyday recreation for others.

By that logic, no one would ever criticize or try to stop ANY illicit and immoral act.

"Pedophelia is in the eye of the beholder. Buggering little boys and girls is obscene to one observer and everyday recreation for others"

"Rape is in the eye of the beholder. Forcing oneself sexually on another is criminal to one observer and great fun for others."

Need I go on?

 

[ZirconBlue]

The majority of Americans do not agree with you.



By that logic, no one would ever criticize or try to stop ANY illicit and immoral act.

"Pedophelia is in the eye of the beholder. Buggering little boys and girls is obscene to one observer and everyday recreation for others"

"Rape is in the eye of the beholder. Forcing oneself sexually on another is criminal to one observer and great fun for others."

Need I go on?

Both of your stupid absurd examples are instances of crimes that have victims. Prostitution and "obscenity" generally do not.

 

[Tricky]

Freedom of speech in Jeopardy? There is no freedom of speech. You MUST phrase your response in the form of a question.

 

[Resume]

Need I go on?

You shouldn't have begun.