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Free energy

samuel Brett

New Blood
S
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
3
Hello everybody I am new to this forum so help me out. A good friend of mine has recently become very interested in the possibilities of among other things "Orgonomy" "the JoeCell" cold fusion and the meanderings of Viktor Schauberger and Olof Andersson on living water etc.
I have searched these forums for a light at the the end of the dark tunnel my friend is being dragged into by "reverse vector implosion hydronomics" or some such twoddle.
I turn to the other members here to help me find some reliable objective information on all these facets of what seems screamingly obvious pseudoscience.
For a good laugh check
www.nutech.com
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/FreeEnergy/Directory/AetherWave/ImplosionTurbine/

What is a "cycloid space-curve movement " ???
All these things are hurting my mind please help!!!
 
Two things noticeably absent amongst the liberal sprinkling of long words, conjugated terms and veritable plague of hyphenation ...

The turbine in your link ... no proper explanation of how it will work, or of any theory to back it up. A few pictures of plastic and metal funnels.

I read the schauberg thing, we seem to have to take it on trust that this guy was a genius beyond our comprehension. I suppose he may have been, but the person who wrote the article about his work is not. It bandies about chemistry, physics and biology terms whilst not actually putting together an actual description of what this machine is doing, or the theory behind its functioning.

I've seen far more complex theories and machines explained far more accessibly than that.

They mentioned fission and fusion in a title, which interested me as I couldn't find any nuclear physics in that section. And it wouldn't be free energy, even then.

Point being, where does this energy being captured originate? That's the fundamental flaw in all these free energy thingies.
 
Benguin said:
I read the schauberg thing, we seem to have to take it on trust that this guy was a genius beyond our comprehension. I suppose he may have been, but the person who wrote the article about his work is not.
Click to expand...
I'm no expert in physics, but I do know a few basic rules of life, to wit:

1) Never, never, never, never, never, never invest in anything you don't comprehend. Never.

2) If someone tries to tell you something is free, he either understands neither economics nor physics, or he's a con artist who wants to separate you from you wallet.

3) They quote Schopenauer's famous maxim:

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

Ninety-nine percent of the time you'll see that quote is when someone's peddling some phonus balonus. They want to persuade you that ridicule is evidence that an idea is valid. Sometimes ridicule is just evidence that an idea is ridiculous.

I note they claim that "Inventor Mathew Whitney has been working with a prototyping company to help with his Closed Loop Implosion Turbine. It is now 90% complete." (emphasis mine).

IIRC, the loonies who claim they can levitate have been saying for quite some time that they're 90% there. They've gotten themselves into the right frame of mind, they've aligned their auras with the energy of the universe, and all that stuff. The last ten percent is the tough part - actually getting off the ground.
 
The Nutech site looks perfectly legit to me. Seems to be one of the myriad E-business companies that struggle their way from day to day through the endless sea of bills. Whether they can deliver the goods they boast, I cannot know, but I did not spot anything out of the ordinary about it.

The greaterthings fellow is quite another thing. Take a typewriter, set it in front of a chimpanzee, and wait a while. The writing on the paper will be at least as useful and meaningful as the content of that website.

Here is the key: One of the most coveted ressources today is energy. Wars are waged, the futures of entire nations are molded by the demand for energy. Ultimately, the future of the entire human race hinges on the supply of energy.

This guy claims to be able to suply free, clean, and unlimited energy. Yet he finds it necessary to advertize on the internet for investors.

Believe you me, if his idea had the slightest merit, he would need to fight off investors with a stick.

Hans :rolleyes:

PS: The idea of free energy goes against several very well established and very basic laws of nature.

Edited for grammar....
 
BPSCG said:
*snip*

3) They quote Schopenauer's famous maxim:

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

*snip*
Click to expand...
What they always forget to mention is that most nascent ideas never make it past #1.

They are implying the following:

- All great ideas were ridiculed in the start .

- Therefore all ridiculed ideas are great.

Which is obviously and blatantly false.

Hans
 
Read a few on the things of Viktor Schauberger, too. Whatever he might have accomplished, it seems to be now completely encrusted in woowoo.

I seem to remember that one of Coghill's devices was also based on the "implosion principle", although a different inventor name was mentioned.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
The Nutech site looks perfectly legit to me. Seems to be one of the myriad E-business companies that struggle their way from day to day through the endless sea of bills. Whether they can deliver the goods they boast, I cannot know, but I did not spot anything out of the ordinary about it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's just a software company. I think samuel meant to link to this site: http://www.nutech2000.com/
 
BPSCG said:
...
3) They quote Schopenauer's famous maxim:

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
...
Click to expand...
Reminds me of:
But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan
 
BPSCG said:
I note they claim that "Inventor Mathew Whitney has been working with a prototyping company to help with his Closed Loop Implosion Turbine. It is now 90% complete." (emphasis mine).
Click to expand...

Yep, he's got all the parts, and got them all together. Now all he needs to do is to get out more energy than he puts in. How hard can that be?

I'm surprised that he calls it 90% complete. I figure it would be a lot closer than that.

(As someone who has experience building instruments, I can tell you that putting it together and making it look nice is the easy part. Getting it to run, OTOH, is a little more challenging (even when it should be running, dangit...grrrrr....))
 
There is a neutral ether consisting of countless myriads of inconceivably small particles per cubic centimetre having no electric charge and no mass. Universal mind places electrostatic charges on these particles when there is a suitable magnetic field so that the become charged particles. The complexity of the charge determines the type of charged particle and its behaviour.
Click to expand...
Link
Gee I thought the ether theory was thoroughly crushed 100 years ago as I recall it from high school physics.
 
There is no such thing as a free lunch...

That'll be $4.87. Thank you, please drive through.
 
BPSCG said:
I note they claim that "Inventor Mathew Whitney has been working with a prototyping company to help with his Closed Loop Implosion Turbine. It is now 90% complete." (emphasis mine).
Click to expand...
And I'm 90% pregnant.
 
Cold Fusion again

Just in case you all weren't already bored to tears by the subject, I thought I might resurrect it just out of interest.
I have read recent articles about renewed interest in cold Fusion research in the U.S. does this mean that previous findings were inconclusive!?!.
I have been informed by a CF enthusiast that it isn't the size of the charge sent through the water nor the pressure needed but the speed and frequency at which the charge is sent! if you smell what I am stepping in!?!
The old faithful oil-company conspiracy (i.e. patents are bought up and destroyed, Willhelm Reich was imprisoned to stop word spreading and challenging the petrol monopoly on energy production etc. etc.) is used to explain why financial and professional interest is lacking, why everything is "90% complete" I guess.
I was hoping someone might know the arguements for and against and be able to lay the subject to rest... again, or at least provide for interesting discussion. Orgonomy looks like an easy one to crack but has CF some or any credibility and what was it Viktor Schauberger achieved and does it warrant any serious discussion???
Questions Questions!!! That is why we're here though...right
 
I turn to the other members here to help me find some reliable objective information on all these facets of what seems screamingly obvious pseudoscience.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if anyone has bothered to thoroughly debunk this particular scam. There are so many scammers all using their own language, it probably takes someone with either a high interest in engineering or a university degree to really point out the laughable details in the scam and to explain in detail just how they would contradict the laws of nature. Unfortunately the sceptic community isn't so good at gathering information like this on a large scale. It is likely that a compendium from these guys have been studied in a coffee-room somewhere, been ridiculed and then put in the trashbin without considering that it might be good to put it on a website also.

The basic principle of the scam operates on the universal scale however. It requires a smooth talker that can sell anything "konserverad gröt" to use a swedish term since I saw we come from the same country. The scammer has to implant the idea in the victim that by just contributing with a small amount of cash to this project he will later cash in on the jackpot. Once this idea is implanted the victims own greed will do the job for the scammer. If your friend is in the later stage he might have invested to much pride to just admit he has been duped, even to admit it to himself would be hurting. Maybe try not to go into detail or debate whether this or that principle works or not, just use common sense and logic. Like why on earth would they invite a stranger and share these immense profits with him.

Edit: Adding some links
List of Free Energy scammers in the past and present
How to become a conman in Free Energy
 
Well, we could carefully analyze each of these ridiculous claims, but it is really a waste of time. As long as they claim to create energy out of nothing it is blatantly ridiculous. Things like cold fusion, where a hitherto unknown method of releasing existing energy is claimed are a bit more difficult, because something like that is theoretically possible.

But, as I already mentioned, you can just take the high ground: Such a claim would change the world, and the earning potential is beyond imagination, so if they suggest their device for household power and invite investors, you know it is a scam.

And evil petrol companies might want to suppress such inventions, but hey, if they could, you wouldn't be reading about it on the internet, now, would you ;)?

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Read a few on the things of Viktor Schauberger, too. Whatever he might have accomplished, it seems to be now completely encrusted in woowoo.

I seem to remember that one of Coghill's devices was also based on the "implosion principle", although a different inventor name was mentioned.

Hans
Click to expand...

No, it was Schauberger as well, and so were Carl's lemons etc!

Total garbage either way, but I still loved the bit about harnessing the "ur-consciousness of the sun" or something to that effect. Haven't a clue what it means because I was too scared to ask! :D
 
Roger the Dodger is back. Might be time to get on with assembling the case for the IoB.

Rolfe.
 
Schauberger

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BPSCG
1) Never, never, never, never, never, never invest in anything you don't comprehend. Never.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But I don't understand life!

In defence of BPSCG our lives weren't our investment, its like someone took our inheritance and blew it all on a game of dice I for one am still trying to get ahead or break even before I fold.
As for Schauberger... his vortex turbine looks feasible at a glance, are his theories really quakery or is it just the cult grown up around them?!?
http://www.frank.germano.com/the_schauberger_page.htm
 
the energy inherent in the free and unhindered flow of water may be potentially much greater than that obtainable from the exclusive use of pressure resulting from altitude differential.
Click to expand...
This just sounds like empty talk to me, just as the other idea that vortex water would be somehow better to drink than tapwater. These cooks sell vortex-mixers that you can install in your home to get vortex water.
I would imagine that builders of hydroelectric powerplants already thought of that water might gain higher velocity if it goes through a tunnel that twists the water before it hits the turbine if it has any benefits in the end.
 
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