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Free Britney!

Earthborn said:
I would hope there are laws regulating how hard children can be made to work and how much say they have in what they do.

She was a judge in a talent show. So she was trusted to make major decisions on other peoples' life and career, but not her own.
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He calls her a child but she was in her 20s when the conservatorship began, so, apparently someone is fine with depriving someone of their entire liberty because daddy says so in a 10 minute sham hearing, even though she was, ya know an adult. What a load of *****.
 
Warp12 said:
Yawn. Children can go on tour, making millions. But, they are in no state to control the money, nor make major life decisions.

Are you against learning the true facts of her mental health history?
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I don't think you're allowed to force your children to work, though.

I'm sure many loathsome stage parents get away with doing so for periods of time, but if someone finds out, that's going to be a problem. If a kid is begging to work less and go to school like a normal kid, I would really hope the law would have some vehicle for protecting them from parents who had lost the plot.
 
Butter! said:
I don't think you're allowed to force your children to work, though.

I'm sure many loathsome stage parents get away with doing so for periods of time, but if someone finds out, that's going to be a problem. If a kid is begging to work less and go to school like a normal kid, I would really hope the law would have some vehicle for protecting them from parents who had lost the plot.
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she was conserved in her 20s, she was an adult, it was court sponsored human trafficking within the family.
 
Warp2 is still completely ignoring the point that while we don't know all the details of Britney's life, we do know that she doesn't suffer from dementia or anything that could justify this conservatorship.

I also don't know all the details of her health, but I do know that she shouldn't be confined to a wheelchair.

Incomplete knowledge doesn't mean complete lack of knowledge.
 
Roboramma said:
Warp2 is still completely ignoring the point that while we don't know all the details of Britney's life, we do know that she doesn't suffer from dementia or anything that could justify this conservatorship.
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What do we really know about her mental health condition?

We have nothing. No medical reports, no testimony, and no real court documentation. If you were a doctor, presented with only what you see in the media, would you be prepared to give a diagnosis, evaluation, and treatment plan? Of course not.

But yet, here we are, listening to the internet give its diagnosis.
 
Warp12 said:
What do we really know about her mental health condition?

We have nothing. No medical reports, no testimony, and no real court documentation. If you were a doctor, presented with only what you see in the media, would you be prepared to give a diagnosis, evaluation, and treatment plan? Of course not.

But yet, here we are, listening to the internet give its diagnosis.
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Roboramma said:
We know that she doesn't suffer from dementia, for instance.
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Do you think that matters, either way? Do you think the court made their decision based upon some comments from her dad, or more likely, from documentation provided by medical professionals?
 
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Warp12 said:
What do we really know about her mental health condition?

We have nothing. No medical reports, no testimony, and no real court documentation. If you were a doctor, presented with only what you see in the media, would you be prepared to give a diagnosis, evaluation, and treatment plan? Of course not.
But yet, here we are, listening to the internet give its diagnosis.
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You're kinda making the point. Even if someone is mentally ill, evaluation, diagnosis (in that order) and treatment rarely require conservatorship for life. That is a specific legal mechanism intended for narrow, specific purposes, and there is substantial evidence that it is being misused and abused in this particular case. People who are rendered helpless by Alzheimer's or brain damage are not usually able to fulfill multi-million dollar, multi-year Las Vegas residencies or perform on TV shows.

And as conservatorship is a legal proceeding, the public has a stake in knowing how judges and courts are performing their duties. We wouldn't allow someone to be convicted of a felony and sent to prison without knowing every detail. Maybe it's time to lift the cloak of secrecy that envelopes all these cases.
 
Warp12 said:
Do you think that matters, either way? Do you think the court made their decision based upon some comments from her dad, or more likely, from documentation provided by medical professionals?
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What we know is that the courts have demonstrated a strong presumption in favor of conservatorships, sometimes working directly with would-be conservators, and the medical professionals in this case were hired by Daddy and could not be challenged by Spears or an attorney or experts that she hired herself.

And to keep repeating, diagnosable mental illness is not proof that a permanent conservatorship is the best or only treatment.
 
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Bob001 said:
What we know is that the courts have demonstrated a strong presumption in favor of conservatorships, sometimes working directly with would-be conservators, and the medical professionals in this case were hired by Daddy and could not be challenged by Spears or an attorney or experts that she hired herself.

And to keep repeating, diagnosable mental illness is not proof that a permanent conservatorship is the best or only treatment.
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And, to keep repeating, I trust the opinions of professionals with first-hand knowledge more than I trust the opinions of internet mental health and/or legal experts.

Let them present the evidence. As they say, "the truth shall set you free", right?
 
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Warp12 said:
What do we really know about her mental health condition?

We have nothing. No medical reports, no testimony, and no real court documentation. If you were a doctor, presented with only what you see in the media, would you be prepared to give a diagnosis, evaluation, and treatment plan? Of course not.

But yet, here we are, listening to the internet give its diagnosis.
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The larger issue with your crap logic is that its apparently better to deprive someone of all theirs rights first and then sort it maybe... later. There's more than evidence to undo the situation and then take a long hard look at daddy's activities and see to what level we hold him accountable, him and his exploiting pals.
 
Warp12 said:
Do you think that matters, either way? Do you think the court made their decision based upon some comments from her dad, or more likely, from documentation provided by medical professionals?
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Its a documented fact the hearing deciding on the Conservatorship was 10 minutes, if you actually stop being obtuse and actually google what the California state requirements for a Conservatorship of the person is, let alone that and a financial one, it's pretty obvious all these requirements weren't covered in ten minutes. I've mentioned this multiple times in this thread and you seem to purposely ignore that.
 
Bob001 said:
You're kinda making the point. Even if someone is mentally ill, evaluation, diagnosis (in that order) and treatment rarely require conservatorship for life. That is a specific legal mechanism intended for narrow, specific purposes, and there is substantial evidence that it is being misused and abused in this particular case. People who are rendered helpless by Alzheimer's or brain damage are not usually able to fulfill multi-million dollar, multi-year Las Vegas residencies or perform on TV shows.

And as conservatorship is a legal proceeding, the public has a stake in knowing how judges and courts are performing their duties. We wouldn't allow someone to be convicted of a felony and sent to prison without knowing every detail. Maybe it's time to lift the cloak of secrecy that envelopes all these cases.
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My extended family has an elderly man with alzheimers, dementia, and asbergers, and they only have someone with power of attorney and then it was only because it was nessicary, for a 39 year old woman to be set up for a life of childhood enforced by the courts after a 10 minute ********e hearing is complete crap.
 
Warp12 said:
And, to keep repeating, I trust the opinions of professionals with first-hand knowledge more than I trust the opinions of internet mental health and/or legal experts.

Let them present the evidence. As they say, "the truth shall set you free", right?
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You don't seem willing to admit that medical professionals might have their own biases and shortcomings, especially in a legal proceeding where they are paid by one side to support one conclusion and can't be challenged by the other. You ever hear of expert witnesses?

And the evidence in plain public view is that Spears is functioning at a level that allows her to earn many millions of dollars in a competitive, demanding industry. A lifetime conservatorship is not psychiatric care, and it was never intended for someone with her illness, whatever it may or may not be.
 
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Bob001 said:
You don't seem willing to admit that medical professionals might have their own biases and shortcomings, especially in a legal proceeding where they are paid by one side to support one conclusion and can't be challenged by the other. You ever hear of expert witnesses?

And the evidence in plain public view is that Spears is functioning at a level that allows her to earn many millions of dollars in a competitive, demanding industry. A lifetime conservatorship is not psychiatric care, and it was never intended for someone with her illness, whatever it may or may not be.
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Its a known fact that ER personnel don't like dealing with Psych cases at all.... that Psych Wards are not about treatment but about monitoring someone on a 72 hour hold to keep them from hurting themselves and more than one psych hospital has been cited for keeping people commited against their will until the insurance money ran out. The mental health industry is rife with corruption and bias.
 
jollyroger85 said:
Its a known fact that ER personnel don't like dealing with Psych cases at all.... that Psych Wards are not about treatment but about monitoring someone on a 72 hour hold to keep them from hurting themselves and more than one psych hospital has been cited for keeping people commited against their will until the insurance money ran out. The mental health industry is rife with corruption and bias.
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I like how in lieu of any actual evidence for this case, the Britney fans resort to telling stories and relaying anecdotes about other cases.
 
Warp12 said:
I like how in lieu of any actual evidence for this case, the Britney fans resort to telling stories and relaying anecdotes about other cases.
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And your one continuing anecdote is that "the experts" must know what they are doing. The history of medicine and jurisprudence belies that notion. And the actual evidence available to us is that Spears is not suffering from dementia or brain damage, which are the primary justifications for a permanent conservatorship. Any mental illness, if present, can be and usually is treated without resort to the most extreme legal sanctions.
 
Bob001 said:
And your one continuing anecdote is that "the experts" must know what they are doing. The history of medicine and jurisprudence belies that notion. And the actual evidence available to us is that Spears is not suffering from dementia or brain damage, which are the primary justifications for a permanent conservatorship. Any mental illness, if present, can be and usually is treated without resort to the most extreme legal sanctions.
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IOW, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
 
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