Fred Phelps rears his ugly head.

[Terry]

I have many disagreements with the "gay" movement but this man is a complete idiot and is destroying the opportunity to have an open, scientific, and rational debate about these issues.

Why don't you start a thread for that?

 

[RandFan]

As much as I disdain Fred, and I really do disdain him, did I say I disdain him?, I don't remember starting this thread....

Oh wait, it's friday. My day to drink. Maybe that's it.

He Fred, suck this....

 

[Freakshow]

Please do not post after drinking or ingesting drugs.

Oh, s***! There go 95% of my posts, right there!

 

[Year Zero]

Why don't you start a thread for that?

Because too many people get overly emotional about the gay issue. If you don't agree with everything they claim they assume you are some kind of hater that wants them eliminated off the face of the Earth. Between them and Phelps, there's no middle ground.

I don't see the issue as being one of morals at all.

 

[Terry]

Because too many people get overly emotional about the gay issue. If you don't agree with everything they claim they assume you are some kind of hater that wants them eliminated off the face of the Earth. Between them and Phelps, there's no middle ground.

I don't see the issue as being one of morals at all.

We could try it, with a request that people stick to the issues.

 

[Year Zero]

We could try it, with a request that people stick to the issues.

I've went down that road before. It is not a pretty sight.

 

[Terry]

I've went down that road before. It is not a pretty sight.

Here? which thread?

 

[Freakshow]

Because too many people get overly emotional about the gay issue. If you don't agree with everything they claim they assume you are some kind of hater that wants them eliminated off the face of the Earth. Between them and Phelps, there's no middle ground.

I don't see the issue as being one of morals at all.

That is a point that has some validity, even though you didn't necessarily do a great job of illustrating that in your previous post. It's cool. I've done worse in my time.

For example...I have a friend of mine that I know very well. So I know what he is like, what he thinks, and what kind of person he is. He is not bigoted, hateful, or prejudiced. But he does not believe that gay people should be able to get married. And he isn't religious, either. I'm sure if I told people "This good friend of mine doesn't think gay people should be allowed to be married", they are going to think he is either a bigot, or a religious fundamentalist. And he is neither. He just happens to have a particular opinion on this specific issue related to marriage, that's all. But there certainly is a knee-jerk reaction from some to automatically think that anyone who doesn't 100% support gay rights does so for nefarious reasons. That isn't always the case.

 

[Zep]

"Fred Phelps Rears His Ugly Head"

Why the adjective? Has he an alternative?

 

[Mycroft]

Err.


What?

Please, allow me to translate:

I have many disagreements with the "gay" movement but this man is a complete idiot and is destroying the opportunity to have an open, scientific, and rational debate about these issues.

Essentially, I agree with Fred Phelps about gays, but he’s still an idiot because all he accomplishes is getting people to laugh and make fun of bigots. If it weren’t for fools like Fred Phelps, guys like me and my friends could engage in “an open, scientific, and rational debate” which means we have a lot of slick sounding pseudo-science to package and sell our hate.

He is a complete coward.

He really should be out hurting and killing people. He talks the talk, but he don’t walk the walk, if you know what I mean.

The Muslims that oppose homosexuality on cultural grounds are at least fighting what they see as an invasion of "Western" liberalism.

And if everybody did that, we’d have a world torn apart by race and culture wars, which would be cool because I already have my targets picked out.

What does Fred Phelps do? He runs his fat mouth and hides behind his God, claiming that various natural disasters and accidents are the wrath of his cowardly God.

Pshaw! Who needs God to hate? We do it just fine on our own. Now if only he would shut-up and stop making bigotry look so stupid, maybe we could get a few words in without being shut down.

Put your money where your mouth is Phelps. Let's see you stand up for your values with the same courage that Muslims have.

Not all Muslims, just the ones that kill people. You can’t take Phelps seriously without a body count.

 

[Year Zero]

Oh good, king of the strawmen is here! Sharpened our scythe have we?

 

[Mycroft]

Oh good, king of the strawmen is here! Sharpened our scythe have we?

Is there anything specific you disagree with?

 

[Year Zero]

Please, allow me to translate:
Essentially, I agree with Fred Phelps about gays, but he’s still an idiot because all he accomplishes is getting people to laugh and make fun of bigots. If it weren’t for fools like Fred Phelps, guys like me and my friends could engage in “an open, scientific, and rational debate” which means we have a lot of slick sounding pseudo-science to package and sell our hate.

Strawman #1. You assume that anyone who disagrees with the views of the gay movement must hate them like Phelps, sees it as a moral issue like Phelps, and sees the people as being "evil". I am not peddling pseudo-science, I am merely seeking answers to questions. Your behavior is why people are afraid to ask questions because they will immediately be smeared as haters.

He really should be out hurting and killing people. He talks the talk, but he don’t walk the walk, if you know what I mean.

Strawman #2. Fred Phelps gloats over peoples' death. He thinks that the death of people, even people who aren't even gay and might also not agree with the mainstream views of gays, deserve death. Yet Fred won't put his money where his fat mouth is- something that might lead to his own death.

And if everybody did that, we’d have a world torn apart by race and culture wars, which would be cool because I already have my targets picked out.

Strawman #3. The world is divided by race and culture. The Muslims aren't trying to impose their views on our lands, and the large numbers that are in the West are their because the West invited them in.

Pshaw! Who needs God to hate? We do it just fine on our own. Now if only he would shut-up and stop making bigotry look so stupid, maybe we could get a few words in without being shut down.

Strawman #4. Anybody who doesn't agree with the mainstream on gays is a hateful bigot, and is really no different than Phelps in a different wrapper.

Not all Muslims, just the ones that kill people. You can’t take Phelps seriously without a body count.

Strawman #5. Phelps would still be a worthless bag of crap even if he did have a body count, but at least he would be living his bizarre theocratical values rather than gloating over the death of people whose values he never knew. What were THEY supposed to do to avoid his judgment? Were THEY supposed to fight his Jihad for him? Phelps would inevitably be killed along with his followers and everyone would be happy in the end.

 

[Mycroft]

Strawman #1. You assume that anyone who disagrees with the views of the gay movement must hate them like Phelps…

No, I don’t.

Rather I assume that what prevents you from having “an open, scientific, and rational debate about these issues” is the exact same thing that prevents you from having “an open, scientific, and rational debate” about other issues. That is nothing at all, but it fits your world-view to claim otherwise.

Strawman #2. Fred Phelps gloats over peoples' death. He thinks that the death of people, even people who aren't even gay and might also not agree with the mainstream views of gays, deserve death. Yet Fred won't put his money where his fat mouth is- something that might lead to his own death.

Exactly how would you have him “put his money where his mouth is?”

Strawman #3. The world is divided by race and culture…

Not for much longer. Cultures blend, races mix. Pretty soon you won’t recognize it anymore.

Strawman #4. Anybody who doesn't agree with the mainstream on gays is a hateful bigot, and is really no different than Phelps in a different wrapper.

An inventive person can find lots and lots of reasons to hate someone if they want to. What are your questions/concerns about homosexuality?

Strawman #5. Phelps would still be a worthless bag of crap even if he did have a body count, but at least he would be living his bizarre theocratical values rather than gloating over the death of people whose values he never knew…

Some people might be relieved that this hateful man is, in the end, a harmless blowhard who isn’t capable of anything more than spewing his bile whenever a reporter comes near. Would you really respect him more if he had a body count?

 

[Year Zero]

No, I don’t.

Rather I assume that what prevents you from having “an open, scientific, and rational debate about these issues” is the exact same thing that prevents you from having “an open, scientific, and rational debate” about other issues. That is nothing at all, but it fits your world-view to claim otherwise.

You know nothing of my worldview. You enjoy tailoring peoples' alleged worldview to your ideal villain.

Exactly how would you have him “put his money where his mouth is?”

It would be nice, for example, if Phelps would actually TELL people what they need to do to avoid his wrath. When he protests the funeral of some straight soldier he didn't even know- what the hell was that soldier supposed to do? Lay down his arms? Take up arms against the government? WHAT?

Not for much longer. Cultures blend, races mix. Pretty soon you won’t recognize it anymore.

People have been saying that for centuries, and culture and races still live on. Nations will change, and cultures do as well, but they will never go away. More and more people all over the world are standing up against globalism. Eventually Islamic fundamentalists and people like the North Koreans- who you probably laugh at now, will laugh at the idiotic dreams of Western liberalism decades from now.

An inventive person can find lots and lots of reasons to hate someone if they want to. What are your questions/concerns about homosexuality?

Again, you NEED your opponent to HATE something. My concerns are regarding the root causes and definitions of this "class" that is called "gay". Just for one example: We are constantly hearing how youth may get confused, and how hard it is to be confused about these things. Well can we find a way to figure out how to identify who is really "gay" so that we would avoid this confusion? Wouldn't that actually HELP both the straight and gay youth and avoid confusion and conflict?

Hmm...maybe there's some HATE hidden in there...

Some people might be relieved that this hateful man is, in the end, a harmless blowhard who isn’t capable of anything more than spewing his bile whenever a reporter comes near. Would you really respect him more if he had a body count?

Some people DON'T think Phelps is harmless; they think that his rhetoric is responsible for beatings and other acts of violence. True or not, he is a thorn in the side- inflaming passions and preventing rational discussions.

 

[Mycroft]

You know nothing of my worldview. You enjoy tailoring peoples' alleged worldview to your ideal villain.

But I do know that absolutely nothing prevents you from having “an open, scientific, and rational debate” about homosexuality, contrary to your claim.

It would be nice, for example, if Phelps would actually TELL people what they need to do to avoid his wrath. When he protests the funeral of some straight soldier he didn't even know- what the hell was that soldier supposed to do? Lay down his arms? Take up arms against the government? WHAT?

I agree.

People have been saying that for centuries, and culture and races still live on. Nations will change, and cultures do as well, but they will never go away. More and more people all over the world are standing up against globalism. Eventually Islamic fundamentalists and people like the North Koreans- who you probably laugh at now, will laugh at the idiotic dreams of Western liberalism decades from now.

Is standing up to globalism a good thing?

Again, you NEED your opponent to HATE something. My concerns are regarding the root causes and definitions of this "class" that is called "gay". Just for one example: We are constantly hearing how youth may get confused, and how hard it is to be confused about these things. Well can we find a way to figure out how to identify who is really "gay" so that we would avoid this confusion? Wouldn't that actually HELP both the straight and gay youth and avoid confusion and conflict?

What other ways do you disagree with the mainstream on gays?

Some people DON'T think Phelps is harmless; they think that his rhetoric is responsible for beatings and other acts of violence. True or not, he is a thorn in the side- inflaming passions and preventing rational discussions.

How does he prevent rational discussion?

 

[Year Zero]

But I do know that absolutely nothing prevents you from having “an open, scientific, and rational debate” about homosexuality, contrary to your claim.

People like you do, when you automatically assume that anyone dissenting from commonly accepted concepts about this issue must be hiding some kind of hate. Once you pull things into the emotional sandbox, the ad hominems fly and nothing is accomplished.

Is standing up to globalism a good thing?

Globalism means the standardization of world values. So whose values get supremacy?

What other ways do you disagree with the mainstream on gays?

I'll assume you agree that the point I brought up is valid. Now keep in mind I am merely QUESTIONING what is being said about them, not making assertions.

How does he prevent rational discussion?

By inflaming emotions and turning things into screaming matches of "Haters" vs. "Fags". I, and I am sure yourself, have seen such fights- they are not pretty.

 

[LibraryLady]

Please, allow me to translate:

I have many disagreements with the "gay" movement but this man is a complete idiot and is destroying the opportunity to have an open, scientific, and rational debate about these issues.

Essentially, I agree with Fred Phelps about gays, but he’s still an idiot because all he accomplishes is getting people to laugh and make fun of bigots. If it weren’t for fools like Fred Phelps, guys like me and my friends could engage in “an open, scientific, and rational debate” which means we have a lot of slick sounding pseudo-science to package and sell our hate.

He is a complete coward.

He really should be out hurting and killing people. He talks the talk, but he don’t walk the walk, if you know what I mean.

The Muslims that oppose homosexuality on cultural grounds are at least fighting what they see as an invasion of "Western" liberalism.

And if everybody did that, we’d have a world torn apart by race and culture wars, which would be cool because I already have my targets picked out.

What does Fred Phelps do? He runs his fat mouth and hides behind his God, claiming that various natural disasters and accidents are the wrath of his cowardly God.

Pshaw! Who needs God to hate? We do it just fine on our own. Now if only he would shut-up and stop making bigotry look so stupid, maybe we could get a few words in without being shut down.

Put your money where your mouth is Phelps. Let's see you stand up for your values with the same courage that Muslims have.

Not all Muslims, just the ones that kill people. You can’t take Phelps seriously without a body count.

Thanks, Mycroft. I was actually going to sit down after work and try to parse it. You've saved me the trouble.

I try hard not to respond to YZ. I'm also afraid to find out what the handle "Year Zero" means.

Now on to work.

Yes, you want to say hello in 100 languages? Well, let's see.....

 

[Mycroft]

People like you do, when you automatically assume that anyone dissenting from commonly accepted concepts about this issue must be hiding some kind of hate. Once you pull things into the emotional sandbox, the ad hominems fly and nothing is accomplished.

Except at the moment the person here who's preventing you from havig “an open, scientific, and rational debate” about homosexuality is you, not me. You're choosing instead to paint yourself as a victim of some vague PC oppression. If you have something you want to say about homosexuality, just say it, don't make excuses.

Globalism means the standardization of world values. So whose values get supremacy?

Which values?

I'll assume you agree that the point I brought up is valid. Now keep in mind I am merely QUESTIONING what is being said about them, not making assertions.

Hmmm, not really. Why would we need to find a way to identify this “class”? Shouldn’t that be left to the individual?

By inflaming emotions and turning things into screaming matches of "Haters" vs. "Fags". I, and I am sure yourself, have seen such fights- they are not pretty.

Except Phelps isn’t involved in any real dialogue. He’s a side-show freak, nothing more.

 

[hgc]

Strawman #1. You assume that anyone who disagrees with the views of the gay movement must hate them like Phelps, sees it as a moral issue like Phelps, and sees the people as being "evil". I am not peddling pseudo-science, I am merely seeking answers to questions. Your behavior is why people are afraid to ask questions because they will immediately be smeared as haters.
....

Let's start with: What are you problems with "the gay movement?" You brought it up. Now please explain.