Frank Greening Refuted Easily

[maccy]

We have many pictures of huge amounts of material outside the footprint.

If you hadn't quoted only half of my reply, you'd have got the explanation for this. In the 2nd half I said:

Once the debris has filled up the basement to the level of the surrounding ground, the rubble pile will spread out as each successive story hits it.

If you drop an egg, it doesn't spread out as its falling, but it does when it hits the ground.

Anyway, carry on:

We have inches of dust over square miles, enough to account for almost the entire towers.

No we don't. The pile of rubble indicates that there was plenty that didn't turn into dust. As does the record of all the debris transported off the site.

Where is your evidence of this accumulating mass in the basements? Do you imagine a 110 story sandwich all compressed into the basements? Can you show any pictures, or any corroboration of this?

The towers had basements, the towers fell straight down therefore some of the towers fell into the basement. The very fact that there is a pile on top of the basement indicates that the basement is full.

No I don't imagine there is a 110 storey sandwich in the basement, once the basement was full, the remaining stories formed a pretty big pile.

Note the stories are damaged in two ways:

1. as the stories above dislodged them from the core; and

2. as they hit the ground.

The evidence is all the photos already shown in this thread.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

Take a look at your "crater" from a side angle. You clearly don't know what a crater is.
http://www.fema.gov/kids/images/911heroes/usr0287.jpg

Any idea where this picture was taken, and looking which way? I'd like to try and match it up with the arial shots.

 

[Arus808]

why dont you provide us with the dates and times of the arial shots you have?

 

[Kent1]

I would suggest checking out the LIDAR. Have fun.....
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s798b.htm

 

[Horatius]

Any idea where this picture was taken, and looking which way? I'd like to try and match it up with the arial shots.

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5433.jpg
New York, NY, October 4, 2001 -- Relief efforts continued day and night at the site of the World Trade Center. Photo by Andrea Booher/ FEMA News Photo

Note debris larger than machines used to move debris.

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5407.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5396.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5679.jpg
New York, NY, September 27, 2001 -- Rescue and recovery operations continue at the site of the collapsed World Trade Center. Photo by Bri Rodriguez/ FEMA News Photo

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5677.jpg
New York, NY, September 27, 2001 -- Over one million tons of rubble are yet to be cleared from the site of the collapsed World Trade Center. Photo by Bri Rodriguez/ FEMA News Photo

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5684.jpg
New York, NY, September 27, 2001 -- Rescue crews work to clear debris from the site of the World Trade Center. Photo by Bri Rodriguez/ FEMA News Photo

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5639.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/5652.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4145.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4159.jpg
New York, NY, September 24, 2001 -- These rescue workers are dwarfed by the enormous pile of rubble at the site of the World Trade Center. Photo by Michael Riger/ FEMA News Photo

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4154.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4167.jpg
Notice the buckled steel?

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4139.jpg

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4128.jpg
New York, NY, September 22, 2001 -- ATF personnel traverse the mountain of rubble at Ground Zero. Photo by Michael Rieger/ FEMA News Photo

So is that enough, TS, or do you need more to finally admit that it was a pile, a stack, a mountain of rubble, and not a crater?

Twit.

 

[Horatius]

Just to lighten the mood after all that, here's a cute picture of my cat, Hector.

 

[Loss Leader]

When will you admit that the pile of debris in your Mostest Absolutely Favouritist Picture is actually really fracking huge?

10 points of using Galactica slang. If you'd said frelling instead of fracking, I'd have given you 50.

 

[Arus808]

Just to lighten the mood after all that, here's a cute picture of my cat, Hector.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/9490455532504ce19.jpg

<threadjack>
is he completely a black cat? its rumored there is no such thing as a completely black cat. that all current black cats have at least one "spot" that is white.
</threadjack>

 

[stateofgrace]

Just to lighten the mood after all that, here's a cute picture of my cat, Hector.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/9490455532504ce19.jpg

Here is a picture of my cat also, Tom.

 

[Loss Leader]

The Banker's Trust building is in the foreground. Each twin tower is about 3 1/2 times the size. So 7 times the BT building "falls down", and we get a crater? Look at the dark round crater where WTC1 stood. See it?

Considering all the pictures of the huge mountain of debris, I find your claim that there is a crater in your picture particularly insane.

And even if there were, the towers extended something like seven stories into the ground, creating quite the large hole that had to be filled even before the mountains of rubble could form.

 

[Horatius]

<threadjack>
is he completely a black cat? its rumored there is no such thing as a completely black cat. that all current black cats have at least one "spot" that is white.
</threadjack>

Nope, two small white spots, one on his chest and one in his nether regions, and a few scattered white hairs throughout. Sorry!

 

[Horatius]

Here is a picture of my cat also, Tom.

[qimg]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p178/stateofgrace_photos/100_1217.jpg[/qimg]

I like how they do the eye-slit "Stop with the pictures already!" thing.

Here's one where he seems to be saying "Stay away from my hard drive!"

 

[stateofgrace]

You’re right, TS I hope you are taking note.

Tomorrow when I come back I trust you will have posted a picture of your cat.

Jesus, I bet TS hasn't even got a cat!!

 

[Horatius]

You’re right, TS I hope you are taking note.

Tomorrow when I come back I trust you will have posted a picture of your cat.

Jesus, I bet TS hasn't even got a cat!!

I don't this any cat would condescend to owning someone like TS. They have standards.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

Significance comes from explaining why the model's predictions would be wrong for reality, not explaining why the model, itself, differs from reality.

So, again, you need to show that his PREDICTION is adversely effected by the model's simplificaiton. It's uninteresting to explain how the model is just a simplification.

Greening's predictions would be wrong because his math assumes accumulating mass. If his assumption about the accumulating mass is wrong, there is no basis to keep adding the mass of every floor to the equation as he does.

Is this clear?

I am not explaining why his model is a simplification. I am explaining why it is wrong. THis is the 6th or 7th time I have done so.

 

[Gravy]

Yesterday my cat Tablet, AKA Globalina the Dangerously Crabby Tabby, was renamed Winston Hitler by a vote of JREF community subforum members. Here she is planning the world domination of English bulldogs.

 

[Gravy]

Greening's predictions would be wrong because his math assumes accumulating mass. If his assumption about the accumulating mass is wrong, there is no basis to keep adding the mass of every floor to the equation as he does.

Is this clear?

I am not explaining why his model is a simplification. I am explaining why it is wrong. THis is the 6th or 7th time I have done so.

You keep saying there was inches of dust spread over square miles. There wasn't inches of dust spread over square blocks. Your assumptions are all wrong, hence your conclusions are all wrong.

Think of your childrens' education, little Chris.

 

[Horatius]

If his assumption about the accumulating mass is wrong, there is no basis to keep adding the mass of every floor to the equation as he does.

"If"

 

[rwguinn]

http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image129.jpg

The Banker's Trust building is in the foreground. Each twin tower is about 3 1/2 times the size. So 7 times the BT building "falls down", and we get a crater? Look at the dark round crater where WTC1 stood. See it?

There are lots of pictures of GZ. I've done the hi-res hunt. No floor assemblies. No piles. Buildings gone.

Let's see, now.
Each floor's concrete was about 4 inches thick. Let's be kind, and call it 6.
That means that 110 floors would stack up to 55 feet, plus a bit for the steel that didn'tcrus.
The building root extended 70 or so feet below ground (basements, parking garages, etc.
That would still leave a hole 10-20 feet deep. Yet the stuff piles up some distance above ground. What gives?

that hole (pun intended) idea was conceived by an intellegence with an IQ of a box of rocks.

 

[Alt+F4]

Just to lighten the mood after all that, here's a cute picture of my cat, Hector.

That cat is obviously in a crator.