• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

France is it time?

I think the differences between the US and France seem magnified because they were so close and so similar for so long. "They weren't so similar," someone may say, but while they're not similar in the way that Illinois and Indiana are similar, they're similar in the grand scheme of things as far as outlook on the world and stuff like that.

The US and France disagree on how power should be used but I don't think they disagree much on what they want the use of power to accomplish.
 
France and the U.S. agree on pretty much everything, but the few things we may have trouble agreeing on are usually matters of degree or tact are grossly overblown by the media and because of an atmosphere of "with us or against us" atmosphere after 9/11.

While France may have waffled more than the current U.S. administration wanted on Iraq (whether the French don't like the notion of pre-emptive war, were getting fat off of oil-for-food, etc.), it is not like France/Chirac ever pretended that Saddam was a great guy or attempted to militarily sabotage or prevent the invasion.

They simply did the political equivalent of rolling their eyes, shrugging their shoulders, and saying "whatever".


As for WWII, every country connected to Germany via land routes got their ass handed to them for a few years because it was the cool thing to do to be an isolationist idiot. The U.K. and U.S. simply were lucky enough to have the Atlantic puddle in between them and Germany, while the U.S.S.R. managed to have 3 times the population and a nasty winter on their side.
 
Denise said:


And the benefits of a relationship with France are?
Click to expand...

They're so annoying that it's easy for us to feel superior to them, thus making our lives more enjoyable. Of course, we could just as well do that if they were our enemies too, but it's more fun feeling superior to a friend than an enemy.

You know, it occurs to me that while there are people all over the world here on JREF I don't recall any from France. What's up with that? There are French skeptics, aren't there?
 
Number Six,
You know, it occurs to me that while there are people all over the world here on JREF I don't recall any from France. What's up with that? There are French skeptics, aren't there?
Click to expand...

Maybe the langage barrier...

Besides, there are a lot of nasty things being said about French over here... :(

Elio.
 
Odd this coming on the day France and Germany back the US resolution at the UN.

I'm in France, just not from France.
 
So, it seems that the people who started this thread don't want to argue anymore...:)

Elio.
 
Elio said:
Number Six,

Maybe the langage barrier...

Besides, there are a lot of nasty things being said about French over here... :(

Elio.
Click to expand...

What language barrier? If you mean the fact that this board is in English, well, it seems some people from lots of other countries overcome that.

There are lots of nasty things said about everyone here (and by "here" I assume you mean this board rather than Europe). By a factor of about 50 there are more nasty things said about the US on this board than there are nasty things said about France, but plenty of Americans come here. I'm guessing there are some French skeptics on this board but I'm just not aware of them.
 
Tricky said:
It seems to me that the French are mostly opposed to the Bush administration. I cannot recall them being so peeved with Clinton.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they weren't peeved at Clinton, but the underlying problem (a divergence in US and French interests) has been there and will continue to be there whoever is in the whitehouse. France's corrupt involvement in UNSCAM (the oil-for-food bribary scandal) happened under Clinton. France's participation with China in joint naval excercises ahead of Taiwan's elections earlier this year, intended to intimidate Taiwanese voters, was also not a result of Bush, and places France in direct opposition to American interests.


So why in the world would they cut ties with the US simply because they disaprove of the policies of the current administration? They know these things can change. But if they came out an made a formal declaration of cutting ties, how would they be able to back up and say, "Me pardonner, mais nous voulons être vos amis encore."
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not sure why the idea of cutting ties was even brought up. We had ties with the USSR throughout the cold war. Nothing wrong with having ties to a country that isn't an ally. But I do think it's reasonable to ask why we should pretend that this is only an argument about how to pursue mutual interests, because it's clear that many of our respective interests really are no longer mutual.
 
To be honest, I as an American, would be very happy if we wiped our shoes to get rid of the sh1t on them that is France. They are our enemy.
 
Denise said:
To be honest, I as an American, would be very happy if we wiped our shoes to get rid of the sh1t on them that is France. They are our enemy.
Click to expand...

Don't beat around the bush, Denise, tell us what you really think. :)

I think the French just like playing good cop to our bad cop (or bad cop to our good cop, depending on how you look at it). They're just being contrarian to balance out the US's power to some degree.
 
Denise:
"How about denying air space with the bombing of Libya. I have more."

Shocking, not to be complicit in TV-friendly state terrorism like that. Shame on France.

Still, while we're on the subject of honesty in international politics - a scarce commodity, I agree - is it not also disingenuous for the US to pretend to respect international law when, in claiming to uphold the will of the UN Security Council, it simultaneously declares the body 'irrelevant' unless it follows US orders?
 
demon said:
Denise:
"How about denying air space with the bombing of Libya. I have more."

Shocking, not to be complicit in TV-friendly state terrorism like that. Shame on France.

Still, while we're on the subject of honesty in international politics - a scarce commodity, I agree - is it not also disingenuous for the US to pretend to respect international law when, in claiming to uphold the will of the UN Security Council, it simultaneously declares the body 'irrelevant' unless it follows US orders?
Click to expand...

The Un should no longer be respected when countries like Syria are enforcers fo human rights. Geez.
 
Number Six,
What language barrier? If you mean the fact that this board is in English, well, it seems some people from lots of other countries overcome that.
Click to expand...

With difficulties ! (What was I doing at school during english lessons...)

There are lots of nasty things said about everyone here (and by "here" I assume you mean this board rather than Europe).
Click to expand...

Yes, I meant the JREF board.

Elio.
 
She's got a point there. Putting Syria in charge of human rights is like putting Charles Manson in charge of the parole board.
 
Number Six,
To be honest, I as an American, would be very happy if we wiped our shoes to get rid of the sh1t on them that is France. They are our enemy.
Click to expand...

In other words, you're just a racist person.

Too bad... :(

Elio.
 
Elio said:
Grammatron,

So what ?

Even if what you're saying is true, what has is got to do with the current disagreements between France and the U.S. ?

Elio.
Click to expand...

Absolutely nothing, I was talking strictly about WWII.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom