Why don't you think a psychic hired for some fun at a corporate halloween party is a problem?
Isn't the psychic posing as someone with real paranormal abilities?
Just yes or no.
Why don't you think a psychic hired for some fun at a corporate halloween party is a problem?
Isn't the psychic posing as someone with real paranormal abilities?
Just yes or no.
Beth
Philosopher
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- Dec 6, 2004
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- 5,598
I gather you think it is. Why is that?
Many thanks for the good suggestions and the reading material. The cookies are in! (And I'll have an appropriate sign.) I've printed out the documentation on the links provided. I'll copy some of the entries that are specific and will compare these with what was said at the readings - all in good fun! I'll make sure to make some "predictions" too. I'm thinking of printing the comments to the backs of home-made tarrot cards - how's that sound?
There is a specific response to Thanz I'd like to make. I understand the "entertainment" value of such performances, however, backing up such a person's claim with the name of a very reputable company allows such a person to gain credibility and hence power over vulnerable people. For example, that a magician was hired to perform for Power Corporation looks very good on such magician's cv - add such a prestige to a fortune teller's cv and imagine how many can be reeled in. Next thing you know, they're claiming they're helping police... That's where dealing with these frauds as corporate entertainment is, in my humble opinion, a mistake.
Thanz
Fuzzy Thinker
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I don't think a psychic hired for some fun at a corporate party is a problem because it is just for fun. Entertainment. Just like a magician. A magician also poses as someone who has paranormal abilities - it is part of the schtick. I don't see it as a problem as everyone knows it is just for fun.
Thanz
Fuzzy Thinker
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I think that there is a wide gulf between claiming on your resume that you worked Power Corporation's halloween party and claiming that you helped the police. The two aren't even remotely comparable. I don't think that someone was hired to work a party lends any credibility to the claim that their predictions are true, rather, it may help them in their claim that they are entertaining. If she was claiming that she was called in to advise the board of directors, you would have a point. But I don't see any enhanced credibility for a psychic by claiming they worked a party.
Flo
Illuminator
Neither do I, but there's a fair chance quite a lot of her future "clients" might not see the difference, especialla since claiming they have been helping the police after having been in casual contact with one of its members is unfortunately what too many psychics do too often.
Marc L
Thread Killer
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Well, here's the thing. Performing at birthday/halloween parties is a completely different league from helping police, advising businesses, etc. For example, do you know how many parties Randi, or Penn&Teller played at before being well-known entertainers? Probably not*
It's the same thing with psychics, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, they do parties, etc in the beginning, but if they hit the "big time", no one's going to be interested in the parties. They'll care more about them "helping the police" or "advising businesses", etc.
Marc
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
Thanz has a good point there are evil a**hats out there that need to be taken down at every turn. A hundred buck party trickster may not be the appropriate battlefield in the greater quest for truth, but if it really does upset you, then maybe you just play with the "fun" theme. Is there a company bulletin board? Right next to the party announcement (and the "readings" plug), hang up a notice of your own, completely sincere-sounding, that already points out how silly these things are.
"To All Staff
Hey, this is great! Everyone should sign up. We had a "fortune teller" at my cousin's bar mitzvah a few years ago. My uncle wanted to teach his son that becoming a man meant learning to think, so he had this lady come in who pretended she could see our futures in tea cups and a crystal ball. Man, she told people the most basic stuff, but said it so seriously they just gobbled it up! I still remember what she told me,... "Standing on your own has not been easy, but you are a person who likes to do things your way." Yeah, that kind of stuff! You can have a ball with this sort of thing at a party!"
There's no rule out there that you have to be a stuffed shirt pipe-smoking skeptic. Play with it and maybe you get them to play along, too. Don't compromise your true feelings or beliefs, but "go with the flow". Who knows, you might find two or three more skeptics in the office, and a good bit of fun for a group of skeptics is hanging around watching people get sucked into the silliness offered by a fortune teller.
(Umm, you might want to first sneak into the boss's office and see if he has autographed photos of Sylvia Browne on the wall. In which case, uh, forget it.)
"To All Staff
Hey, this is great! Everyone should sign up. We had a "fortune teller" at my cousin's bar mitzvah a few years ago. My uncle wanted to teach his son that becoming a man meant learning to think, so he had this lady come in who pretended she could see our futures in tea cups and a crystal ball. Man, she told people the most basic stuff, but said it so seriously they just gobbled it up! I still remember what she told me,... "Standing on your own has not been easy, but you are a person who likes to do things your way." Yeah, that kind of stuff! You can have a ball with this sort of thing at a party!"
There's no rule out there that you have to be a stuffed shirt pipe-smoking skeptic. Play with it and maybe you get them to play along, too. Don't compromise your true feelings or beliefs, but "go with the flow". Who knows, you might find two or three more skeptics in the office, and a good bit of fun for a group of skeptics is hanging around watching people get sucked into the silliness offered by a fortune teller.
(Umm, you might want to first sneak into the boss's office and see if he has autographed photos of Sylvia Browne on the wall. In which case, uh, forget it.)
Hi - just a short update. I had the fortune cookie table out with a neato sign indicating no-fail predictions (ex. today you will eat chocolate) - and all that went off quite well. The humour was not lost and it livened the afternoon up quite a bit and got people talking about the whole paranormal issue - but without it being heavy at all.
It was a palm reader that made an appearance. She was very popular. Everyone who booked some time with her swears that she was uncannily precise. I discussed some of the "predictions" - of course they were vague but she got some good targets and they became laser precise. This is a bit discouraging for me. This company is science based, and I find it puzzling that such goobildygook is tolerated here. The "Science Dept" secretary reads tea leaves. Sigh.
At least next year I get to supply the "entertainment". Anybody have ideas for a very freaky sceance - I think I could do the dead people talking and be at least as precise... I've got a year to practice.
Does W mean anything to anybody?... William, maybe Bill?...
Thanks for your help and suggestions, and especially the reading links - they were a great help.
mac
It was a palm reader that made an appearance. She was very popular. Everyone who booked some time with her swears that she was uncannily precise. I discussed some of the "predictions" - of course they were vague but she got some good targets and they became laser precise. This is a bit discouraging for me. This company is science based, and I find it puzzling that such goobildygook is tolerated here. The "Science Dept" secretary reads tea leaves. Sigh.
At least next year I get to supply the "entertainment". Anybody have ideas for a very freaky sceance - I think I could do the dead people talking and be at least as precise... I've got a year to practice.
Does W mean anything to anybody?... William, maybe Bill?...
Thanks for your help and suggestions, and especially the reading links - they were a great help.
mac
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Reject all advice on what to do next year. You already know the answer, which is a very good idea.
And thanks for the update.
And thanks for the update.
You presume that seeing a fortune teller is fun. For some people, it might not be fun.
I imagine that anyone who has lost a child, and consequently been preyed upon by fortune tellers, could give you a categorical explanation of why it's not just "fun."
For the life of me, I can't see how your arguments exclude a KKK wizard from telling racist jokes from being legitimate party entertainment. Once you've decided that people must be allowed to believe the most irrational things without even being questioned, where does it stop?
(Edit: a better example - let a Scientologist come in and do free E-readings. It's just fun, right? Ignore the fact that the psychic is trolling for new clients, and should be paying your company for the right to solicit her services. That's what I would be pissed about - they effectively subjected the entire company to an advertisment. Real entertainers are not there to find suckers they can privately bilk for more money later.)
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I must say that my primary reaction when I got the e-mail saying we were going to have this type of "event" for Halloween was motivated by the fact that I feel they are "trolling for new clients" (thanks Yahzi). What happens when somebody goes through a very tough time and seeks this type of help? A colleague has spent a small fortune on "healing" and even trained for it... because she thought she could help a close family member from a distance. She's woken up since then, a few thousand $ short... and the family member none the better. Unfortunate, but she could have spent that money for travel back "home" to see her relative.
It's really no fun at all, when you see the non-entertaining effects of these lies.
It's really no fun at all, when you see the non-entertaining effects of these lies.
ObscureReferenceMan
Muse
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Thanks for the update!
I say next year provide your own "psychic". Have someone run the whole schtick, but at the end of the day, have him/her make an announcment along the lines of, "I am not psychic! What you all have experienced is the power of cold reading, the Forer Effect and wishful thinking. Etc, etc." Might make people think, shake them up. Or p*ss them off.
I say next year provide your own "psychic". Have someone run the whole schtick, but at the end of the day, have him/her make an announcment along the lines of, "I am not psychic! What you all have experienced is the power of cold reading, the Forer Effect and wishful thinking. Etc, etc." Might make people think, shake them up. Or p*ss them off.
Thanz
Fuzzy Thinker
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And for some people a magician might not be fun, as they use the tools of the devil. And for others a clown might not be fun, due to undisclosed childhood clown traumas. So?
The difference is context. If the company were bringing in a fortune teller to find lost kids, maybe I'd agree with you. But their not. They brought her in (on Halloween, fer crying out loud) for some lighthearted entertainment.
For the life of me, I can't tell how this example is analogous at all. Who hires the KKK to work a party telling racist jokes?
Yes. Now I see how allowing a fortune teller to work a hallowween party is a direct line to civil disorder and anarchy, with the weak downtrodden, abused, and probably enslaved to our new psychic masters, Sylvia Browne and John Edward, and all of their bastard progeny.
Not an accurate example either. Scientologists do E-readings as a recruitment tool. I reject your premise that ALL fortune tellers MUST be there to prey on the grieving and suck them dry. As for "trolling for clients" do oyu not think a magician would also want to work your kids birthday party? OR is that allowed, cause you like magicians?
personable
Scholar
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I think the distinction between a magician and a fortune teller is that the magician works on an understanding with the audience that what he is doing is indeed fake and the showpiece is his skills in making it look real.
A Fortune teller could easily take the same approach, but they choose not to. Ok, it may be lighthearted entertainment for most people, but the vunerable people in our society tend to take them seriously and risk not only their purses but their mental well-being.
The difference is, if the fortune teller were to openly admit that she didn't really see the dead, but was mainly showcasing her cold reading skills and ability to create an atmosphere, then that would be entirely fine.
A Fortune teller could easily take the same approach, but they choose not to. Ok, it may be lighthearted entertainment for most people, but the vunerable people in our society tend to take them seriously and risk not only their purses but their mental well-being.
The difference is, if the fortune teller were to openly admit that she didn't really see the dead, but was mainly showcasing her cold reading skills and ability to create an atmosphere, then that would be entirely fine.
You have just described the psychic's business model. Of course that is they are there for. That is their job. That is how they get paid.
That's a good point. However, I feel there is a difference. The magician is focused on producing a show, which then might encourage you to hire him privately. The psychic is focused on finding clients, and only does the show to get access to the clients. But I realize that is a subtle and possibly subjective difference, so I retract this objection.
Instead, the objection I offer is that we all know the psychic cannot deliver the product they are selling. The magician is not defrauding people; the psychic is. And it's clearly wrong to let frauds advertise in your work-place.
Thanz
Fuzzy Thinker
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Again, I think that you are painting all purported psychics with the same broad brush when I do not think it is warranted. A very quick google search found me this:
http://www.gigmasters.com/psychic/ChangeYourFortune/
Gigmasters seems to be a company that arranges entertainment for parties. This psychic describes her act as follows:
Looks to me more like she is entertaining people rather than looking for grieving widows to fleece.
Sorry I skipped by this one. I beg to differ on this one. Realising that by simple omission of the word "party" on a resume one could thus completely change the deck. One might assume that that said "entertainer" would not mention that and leave it up to the reader to come to a conclusion. The goal is to gain credibility for them, after all. Current/Past clients: Power Corp.
Voila - the damage is done. It's not a lie - and even then what would be one more lie to the pack?