Forthcoming UK TV - Derren Brown Seance

Brian said:

I don't know of course. It's just the simplest solution. How would he know that it would work before it was taped? Could he do it over and over on the same person. A big thing about a magic performace is this: You Can Lie. when you ask the woman from the audiance "Have we ever met before?", she can lie.

And, no, I don't believe the power of suggestion is that strong. If she wasn't an accomplice, she just played along.

You are correct, but I don't really see your point. Derren has never said that he is attempting to prove that his shows or demonstrations prove the paranormal doesn't exist. He is not debunking. He is showing how fallible our perceptions are..and how easily we can be fooled by 'cheating'. How apparently 'paranormal' activities can be replicated. The techniques he uses are irrelevant. Of course he bluddy cheats! He tells people so! :D
 
HenDralux said:


...what? When we speak of 'magic' and 'magicians', most of the adult population know exactly what that refers to. Are you not one of them? Exactly how is he cheating, if he tells you he's a magician? Are you saying magicians aren't allowed to misdirect? And any that do are 'despicable'?

Not trying to have a go, I seriously don't understand your aggressive stance towards him, and find the words 'despicable cheat' quite absurd.

Look at that Russian roulette stunt last year :rolleyes: It was all a cheat. I think it's disgusting.
 
HenDralux said:


You are correct, but I don't really see your point. Derren has never said that he is attempting to prove that his shows or demonstrations prove the paranormal doesn't exist. He is not debunking. He is showing how fallible our perceptions are..and how easily we can be fooled by 'cheating'. How apparently 'paranormal' activities can be replicated. The techniques he uses are irrelevant. Of course he bluddy cheats! He tells people so! :D
I got the idea that he was "showing her the light". What I saw was a 4 minute mini-drama. Like he was showing her how easily people can be fooled.
I hope that's not the best he has, Copperfield is better.
 
HenDralux said:
How apparently 'paranormal' activities can be replicated. [/B]

Yeah, replicated on TV so he can have it all set up. Let's see him cheat under proper lab conditions.

Anyway, you're seriously pissing me off. I really can't be ar*ed talking to people who think he's great. I don't like cheats.
 
Interesting Ian said:


Yeah, replicated on TV so he can have it all set up. Let's see him cheat under proper lab conditions.

Anyway, you're seriously pissing me off. I really can't be ar*ed talking to people who think he's great. I don't like cheats.

Eah? Are you drunk or something? Sorry, that post was weird. I never said he was great. Don't take it out on me if you have some weird gripe with Derren, you offensive little man.

As I have said, he tells people he 'cheats'. Magic is about misdirection, psychologically or otherwise.

I'm sure under lab conditions he couldn't pull a lot of what he does off....no idea what your point is.
 
HenDralux said:


Eah? Are you drunk or something? Sorry, that post was weird. I never said he was great. Don't take it out on me if you have some weird gripe with Derren, you offensive little man.

As I have said, he tells people he 'cheats'. Magic is about misdirection, psychologically or otherwise.

I'm sure under lab conditions he couldn't pull a lot of what he does off....no idea what your point is.

Offensive big man to you. And my point is I don't like cheats. It's all set up for TV to look much more impressive than it actually is.

Seeing him live, well that's ok. He can cheat as much as he likes and it would be interesting to work out how he does it. Not possible watching a TV show.
 
Interesting Ian said:


Offensive big man to you. And my point is I don't like cheats.

And I don't like offensive men, regardless of their size.

Your points about him 'cheating' and the justification for calling him despicable are as clear as mud. I also never said 'Derren was great', so if I 'piss you off' and you don't want to speak to me, use another reason.

Last time I came across you on here, you called me a 'concrete block' - amongst other names, then announced you were leaving this forum in the very same thread. Yet here you are.

I think this is where we part our conversation.
 
Lets not forget that if Derren had completely denied that he was using trickery and he presented everything as true psychic medium ability, Ian would be fawning all over him.

Yes he's a cheat. That was the whole point of last night's show. Those students were crapping thier pants and getting very over emotional about the ghost of Jane, a girl they never knew.
The difference being that he then explained to them that it was just a trick. Most mediums don't bother.
 
Brian said:

I don't know of course. It's just the simplest solution. How would he know that it would work before it was taped?

I'm sure he didn't know for certain. You don't know how many people he tried it on (ditto for the person-stopping-in-the-street thing - how many times did the person not stop? In the event that nobody stopped, this would never have been screened. It's an opportunistic thing - if it works, it looks tremendous. If it fails, move smoothly onto the next trick.

And, no, I don't believe the power of suggestion is that strong. If she wasn't an accomplice, she just played along.

She wasn't an accomplice. She just played along. A good part of stage hypnosis relies on this.
 
Interesting Ian said:


Offensive big man to you. And my point is I don't like cheats. It's all set up for TV to look much more impressive than it actually is.

Seeing him live, well that's ok. He can cheat as much as he likes and it would be interesting to work out how he does it. Not possible watching a TV show.

I don't doubt that you get edited highlights on TV. But you should perhaps ask LillyThePink what she thinks of him before you are so judgemental - she saw him live t'other week.
 
Might be interesting to email Dr. Arthur Anderson and see what he made of the event - and how he feels Derren 'cheated'.

I think what some people are getting at when they use the word 'cheat' (because we all know magicians cheat) is that what Derren pupports to be a psychological illusion, is often a simple parlour trick.

Of course, if Derren had gone the route of championing himself as a medium, or other label which would require other worldly gifts...the 'hows' would suddenly not matter to a vast group of people. And I'm sure Derren would have an army of devout followers willing to do battle with any whiney, leathery old sceptic out there who tries to offer alternative explanations.

I think this is the true reason why Derren winds certain people up into seemingly aggressive states.
 
Ian, did you shell out any money to go see him live yet?

I did. He rocked.

As for his being "a despicable cheat" - I don't understand your issue. He tells you upfront that he's going to trick you. This is refreshing, after the Spiritualist church I went to not admitting it at all. Bless.

If you want to ask me about the LIVE SHOW where there were no TV cameras and I was in the fifth row, please do. The Seance conducted on TV was an extended version of the second half of the show.
And I had to tape the end, I went to bed, so I haven't seen ALL of the TV show yet, so don't expect comment. :)
 
HenDralux said:


I don't understand, why not watch it just because he cheats? I thought it was very entertaining.

LOL - Of course he 'cheats' - that was the whole point! No one can contact the dead, so ir's really the only way it was ever gonna work!
 
digital goldfish said:


LOL - Of course he 'cheats' - that was the whole point! No one can contact the dead, so ir's really the only way it was ever gonna work!

Yes, I know he cheats. I've said so in other posts.

I think the problem some people have is the type of cheating that may be going on, not the fact he uses illusions to create seemingly paranormal effects.

I don't give a jot which technique he uses, he has stated he has no 'paranormal' powers, so quite why people could have a gripe with him to such a degree, I have no idea.
 
HenDralux said:


Yes, I know he cheats. I've said so in other posts.

I think the problem some people have is the type of cheating that may be going on, not the fact he uses illusions to create seemingly paranormal effects.

I don't give a jot which technique he uses, he has stated he has no 'paranormal' powers, so quite why people could have a gripe with him to such a degree, I have no idea.

As many people in Derren's profession have said - ' if there's an easier way to do this, then bring it on' - what Derren does isn't easy; he's worked very hard. We are lucky he makes good money from entertaining people, rather than taking the Slvyia Brown et al route..
 
digital goldfish said:

what Derren does isn't easy; he's worked very hard. We are lucky he makes good money from entertaining people, rather than taking the Slvyia Brown et al route..

Totally agree. The stunts he pulls off are very impressive and have required years of practice.
 
Totally agree. The stunts he pulls off are very impressive and have required years of practice.

Ahh, but are they? Did they? (And which? ;) ) Or do they just require a steady stream of psychology or media students to act as accomplices?

Back in the first series, he did a trick where he had people hold one of their hands over his hands, while he sat behind a screen. He'd then announce whether they were holding their left hand or right hand over his.

Pretty impressive huh? And we know he's a good guy because he was using "psychological techniques" and even giving his reasoning, things like "you'll want to start with something obvious, like the right hand" or "you'll try and trick me by giving your left hand", "you'll try and break the pattern by using your left hand again."

But all the while, sitting to the side where he could see both Derren and the other participant (and signal to Derren), was the "scientist" with the clipboard and the white coat.

Yes, stage magicians "lie" to you at all the time, by performing seemingly magical feats with the implicit understanding (hopefully) that the audience knows it's a trick. But Derren does his best to imply that he's worked for years at developing these subtle, non-magical, powers of the mind (raises an eyebrow and stares mesmerically).

On the woman at the window commanding people to stop, if that was for real and it was down to editing they would have to be their for days before someone stopped and turned around exactly on cue.

On the voodoo woman, the way she finally cracked her mouth open to talk when told she could make it look like she'd been caught playing along and was probably embarrassed to have been so silly. What saves face, admitting you were playing along because you were desperate not to disappoint Derren and the crew (and that confession wouldn't air anyway), or pretending you were psychologically tricked by someone with a superior understanding of the mystery that is the human mind (cue spooky music)?

I find myself pretty strongly agreeing with Ian (although I wouldn't place much emphasis on the difference between stage and TV). I might even find what DB does a little offensive. Same way I'd find a David Copperfield trick offensive if I found out it worked solely because he had a stooge. Not that using a stooge is an "unacceptable" way of assisting the performance of a trick, but it shouldn't be the be all and end all. No skill in that.

And I still say no-one recites the Litany Against Fear when they get spooked :D

David

Edit: well, turns out I'm wrong about the Litany Against Fear - there's at least one person out there who does recite it when spooked :)

And yeah, I wouldn't equate Derren with Sylvia Brown, but I think he's closer to her than David Copperfield is.
 

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