Merged Former Marine Arrested & Detained for Patriotic Facebook Posts!!!

[Horatius]

The film maker doesn't mention, undoubtedly because he doesn't know, that the Earth's crust is 7% aluminum.

My God - how long have they been spraying that ******!?!?

 

[plague311]

It's sad that someone who served our country has to go through this, but in all honesty I agree with all the previous comments stating the "better to be safe than sorry" course of action is best.

It's 3 days, and if the guy gets help that enables him to live a successful life, possibly through medication, than everyone wins. Hearing about those poor children killed by the last guy that lost his grip is tough to handle. This might just save that from happening again.

 

[Stacko]

Well, at least now, when we ask CTists what they plan to do about it, they'll hopefully realize that "Post about my plans for violent revolution of FaceBook" is not a viable answer.

If the FOTL movement has taught us anything, it's that they will learn absolutely nothing from other peoples "mistakes".

 

[amensae]

What is it with their obsession over aluminum?

You don’t think tinfoil is made out of actual tin, do you?

 

[LightinDarkness]

By the sounds of his mother, the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. But I strongly disagree with the arrest. He has issues, he has strange beliefs, but that is not a crime. Freedom of thought and speech is a basic right of all people, and thats what it appears he has been arrested for. Bad move in my opinion.

This was my position on this as well - if this was merely spreading 9/11 CT and other associated quackery and conspiracy BS, people have a right to embrace the crazy. Its a freedom of speech issue - as much as I detest and abhor the sort of illogical thinking CTers promote and embrace, they have a right to not only believe this sort of stupidity but talk about it too.

However, free speech has never covered inciting violence, and if you read some of this guys facebook posts that was exactly what he was doing. Additionally, as a government employee who presumably had easy access to weapons, even threatening a revolution as a empty CT threat needs to be taken seriously by the government.

I may despise conspiracy theorists, but I would always support their right to spread their stupidity...until they start trying to incite violence with it. Sometimes that is a fine line with CT, since CT assumes that the evil gubment is out to get you and that only sheeple don't fight back, but he was very clearly threatening a revolution. Is it a realistic threat? Probably not, but its not covered under free speech and his superiors did the right thing.

My biggest "really, people?" moment in this story though is that the ******* crazy Oathkeepers have involved themselves. Oathkeepers are a classic example of why you have to watch this stuff - its an entire group of nutbars who make a big deal about "not following orders contrary to the Constitution." The group is crazy because this is like joining a group to promise you would disobey someone telling you to murder someone - is there actually someone planning to tell you to murder someone? No. Why make a group about it? Because the Oathkeepers are generally CTers who think there is some conspiracy coming down where they will be told to kill American citizens so they get to beat their chest by making a group and going around and getting publicity through cases like this when military and law enforcement people embrace the woo.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Protip: Wait until you're actually leading the revolution before threatening violence against groups in the government or military. Failing that, make sure you're sufficiently anonymous.

As long as idiots like this are threatening revolution in this manner, I think it's safe to assume that the U.S. is far from an actual revolution.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Brandon Raub has been released.

http://m.nbc12.com/autojuice?target...eld-marines-release-from-psychiatric-facility

In court Thursday, the judge said the petition to keep Raub detained didn't list a single allegation against him. The judge also said the marine suffered a "deprivation of his liberty" by being held without a clear claim.

However, Raub's defense attorney admitted in court that during Raub's evaluation, mental health professionals found signs of "psychosis." Still, authorities couldn't keep him detained with specific reason.

So the prosecution botched up their case?

Nonetheless, Raub's attorneys admitted he was possibly psychotic. Not that Raub's support group will admit that.


In other news, another veteran was taken into custody for suspicious behaviour.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/350090671735329/

This group is specifically about the latest updates surrounding the situation of William Alemar, who was being charged with being a "terrorist" simply by jogging in full "battle rattle" (as it is commonly known) near two schools in VA (I live in VA, and I live right next to 2 schools, there are plenty of them around....). The idea of a Constitution free zone is bunk, and we would like to support this American Patriot as was Brandon Raub supported in his time of trouble. The idea you can be labeled a "terrorist" simply by carrying a training rifle, ammo, and knives is once again, an overblown reaction by our government. Unless further hitherto unknown facts are released, it seems we should unite with this American hero, who is NOT a terrorists but a citizen of the republic!

 

[Border Reiver]

Glad I'm Canadian. Most of our guys that go off the deep end just end up robbing banks or crashing their cars into the HQ building.

Russell Williams excepted.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

So the prosecution botched up their case?

Figures. Instead of getting whatever help he may need, he's going to go back to his revolution fantasy even more fired up than he was and with more "followers".

 

[Orphia Nay]

Figures. Instead of getting whatever help he may need, he's going to go back to his revolution fantasy even more fired up than he was and with more "followers".

Indeed. A scary thought.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

That's the thing. He's been taken in for psych evaluation. He hasn't been charged with any crime, so I don't think this counts as being arrested.

I am uncomfortable with it.

The posts themselves, while kooky, don't appear to create any real danger of immediate harm to people.

And my wife (who is Russian) said her first thought on seeing it was that the "psychiatric evaluation" detention was the precise procedure followed by her past government.

Not exactly the same, but a troubling precedent.

 

[Purplefink]

You don't see how people on his friends list would be alarmed? On conspiracy sites they make it seem like it was just his opinions or one post that got him in trouble. To me it looks like he raised red flag after red flag and someone finally said something.

 

[grandmastershek]

You don't see how people on his friends list would be alarmed? On conspiracy sites they make it seem like it was just his opinions or one post that got him in trouble. To me it looks like he raised red flag after red flag and someone finally said something.

Exactly...and all the CT rubes are claiming it as a victory for free speech. In the article Orphia cited his mother talks about how the judge saw "the truth". What truth? That someone screwed up along the way & made a clerical error? There is no way this guy is going to get any help living with a delusional person like herself.

Within a few months we will no doubt hear about this guy again, and it will be a much sadder occasion. Then we will be hearing about how when they had him in custody they brain washed him.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I am uncomfortable with it.

The posts themselves, while kooky, don't appear to create any real danger of immediate harm to people.

And my wife (who is Russian) said her first thought on seeing it was that the "psychiatric evaluation" detention was the precise procedure followed by her past government.

Not exactly the same, but a troubling precedent.

You don't see how people on his friends list would be alarmed? On conspiracy sites they make it seem like it was just his opinions or one post that got him in trouble. To me it looks like he raised red flag after red flag and someone finally said something.

Exactly. Despite appearances, he may actually have some sane people who care about him.

NA, how is "I am here to sever heads" not troubling enough to warrant evaluation?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

NA, how is "I am here to sever heads" not troubling enough to warrant evaluation?

I think most people downplay it by pointing out that "those are just song lyrics". I'm not sure how that works, though. Most people quoting others' words in that context do so because the quote reflects their own feelings and opinions.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

I am uncomfortable with it.

The posts themselves, while kooky, don't appear to create any real danger of immediate harm to people.

And my wife (who is Russian) said her first thought on seeing it was that the "psychiatric evaluation" detention was the precise procedure followed by her past government.

Not exactly the same, but a troubling precedent.

It's been the law for quite awhile now (Google 5150 for California's laws regarding this or you can look at the Wiki article on it which covers it fairly well). This isn't the same as putting political dissidents in the Gulag to rot forever because you don't like what they have to say. There are very specific rules that have to be met both to get someone to involuntarily submit to the psyche eval and to keep them beyond the 72 hour point.

 

[Scott Sommers]

I am uncomfortable with it.

The posts themselves, while kooky, don't appear to create any real danger of immediate harm to people.

And my wife (who is Russian) said her first thought on seeing it was that the "psychiatric evaluation" detention was the precise procedure followed by her past government.

Not exactly the same, but a troubling precedent.

But she would be wrong in assuming it is the "precise procedure" the Russians used to use or the Chinese continue to use today. I have a lower standard of tolerance than most members on this forum and I think it is not acceptable to talk about how the government murders people and that the only suitable action is an armed insurrection. Teenage kids may talk about this and mean no harm. They may also joke about blowing up the airliner or how "there's a bomb on board". But both of these kinds of actions need to be taken seriously for what they are - frightening actions that scare a lot of people.

What's significant about Mr. Raub is that he is in fact a trained killer. This makes it a little bit more frightening than when Luke Rudkowski says the government murders people and an armed insurrection is needed. Luke is the skinny weaselly sort of character you'd expect to see in a shooting gallery. Mr. Raub is quite robust and probably capable of killing most people even without a gun.

So it is quite a different thing when a man like him starts making threaten statements. Just as if Luke said he was going to give you bloody nose, you might laugh at him and send your sister into deal with him; Brandon Raub is a different matter. When he starts making threatening remarks, it is best to take him seriously just in case he is serious.

But don't take my word for it. Which of these young men seems more able to deliver upon a promise of violence? Does one of them look like a scary dude and the other one look like a dweeb?

 

[NoZed Avenger]

But she would be wrong in assuming it is the "precise procedure" the Russians used to use or the Chinese continue to use today.

I agree. But despite being familiar with the law, the precedent makes me uneasy.

But don't take my word for it. Which of these young men seems more able to deliver upon a promise of violence? Does one of them look like a scary dude and the other one look like a dweeb?

The law is limited to 'scary' looking people?

 

[jimfish]

Maybe he was just a really big Hemingway fan.

The "shirtless dude with shotgun" look is really making a comeback.

 

[Scott Sommers]

I agree. But despite being familiar with the law, the precedent makes me uneasy.

The law is limited to 'scary' looking people?

But he's more than just a scary looking person. He is scary. I have trained with martial arts and combat sport clubs for many, many years now. The level of training to kill that is now available is absurd. I have no personal familiarity with how Marines are trained to kill but I feel safe in presuming it is also absurd. People who have been turned into a weapon have a responsibility. He can't help it if he is a victim of mental illness at the same time. But the police and legal system did nothing wrong in detaining and examining a person who has the potential to kill people more or less effortlessly and also appears to be advocating public violence. If they botched the investigation or prosecution or violated his legal rights, that's another matter. But he is a dangerous person - inherently.