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Former conspiracy believer here

Go right ahead. Start a new thread and show us what the Popular Mechanics articles and book get wrong.

Odd how realcdeal didn't pony up when asked to provide said evidence.

For some reason I'm reminded of the Truther response to the the fuel truck crash in California which melted steel and collapsed concrete and I recall being... well, obfuscation and handwaving would be a polite way of describing it.
 
umm...I hate to disagree again, lol...but.

There are those of us, even debunkers, who are not experts or physics gurus, who do on occasion state such things as...

"Truthers are wrong about CD, because NIST, with its experts in the field, has provided an alternative to this that makes more sense."

I hate to admit that sometimes, when the science is a little above me (or buried deep in my brain) I may do this...though usually I try to provide corroborating opinion, to enhance or strengthen my argument.

TAM:)

I certainly don't pretend to any special expertise on anything except insurance issues, so any scientific discussion I participate in is going to be full of appeals to authority. I can understand how someone like R. Mackey arrived at his conclusions without being able to replicate his calculations and such, though, and that's why I would feel confident in quoting his whitepaper, for example.

The debunkers' authorities are supported by mountains of physical evidence, eyewitness testimony, math, science, physics, and logic. The Truthers' authorities are supported by... well, you get the idea.
 
TAM, I understand your reasons for remaining anonymous. I certainly would in your position also.

A comment I would also make though is that it is not a common practice to reveal the identities of reviewers for Journals. In all cases, the editors, who are ultimately responsible for the publishing of papers on these journals, are known to the public. However, I have never seen an instance where the reviewers are publicly acknowledged as a group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_review

By the way, I hope you realize that I believe the peer review process to be of limited value. It does and can serve to weed out gross errors and poor writing but there are many limitations to it, which are well discussed in the link above. The final arbiter is the free market of ideas. Given that, a work should still not be represented as peer reviewed if it has not been, such as what is happening with at least some of the papers currently published on the Journal of Debunking 911 Conspiracy Theories, where the authors admitted they weren't involved in any peer review process.
Based on your own posts and paper, your peer review at Journal of Woo, started by Jones, is broke. Your paper, full of gross errors, was not caught before you made an error and published it. You are in a group of fools, who publish junk. 600 mph and still you can't find a first hand source and refuse to believe the chief engineer of the WTC. That make you a bad researcher with a bad paper.

Anonymous? Why be anonymous? Because now I get junk mail and spam constantly after a few idiot truthers found me. Some of these fools are loony tune nuts, and the first sign is their inability to understand 9/11.
 
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Odd how realcdeal didn't pony up when asked to provide said evidence.

For some reason I'm reminded of the Truther response to the the fuel truck crash in California which melted steel and collapsed concrete and I recall being... well, obfuscation and handwaving would be a polite way of describing it.

Realcddeal has responsibilities and a life outside of talking on this forum. I have to work for a living and tend to family matters, which many here do, so it really isn't appropriate to go too far with the swipe that because someone doesn't reply right away that they don't have an answer. Mark Roberts' (Gravy) question was a change of subject anyway.
 
Realcddeal has responsibilities and a life outside of talking on this forum. I have to work for a living and tend to family matters, which many here do, so it really isn't appropriate to go too far with the swipe that because someone doesn't reply right away that they don't have an answer. Mark Roberts' (Gravy) question was a change of subject anyway.
I doubt you even come close to doing what some at JREF do, so stop making it seem like posting for 15 seconds is a work of a lifetime.

The more you do, the better you do. Your paper is still full of errors, when will you fix it, or is your entire life filled with errors and this is standard results for you?

oops, now 25 seconds, and your paper is still filled with errors; is this indicative or your work for a living. Why try to insult others, when you have so many errors in your own work? You should spend some time correcting your errors and learning how to think with logic and learn how to be rational.
 
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Great post. I'll now tell my own story:

My relationship with the loose change crowd was sort of over before it began. If you had to assign a number to me, I was about 60% convinced that the government had no hand in the attacks or allowing them to happen. With that ratio not being satisfactory, I made a decision to look at the other side of the coin. So in August I registered with LC911.com and decided to give them two months to push that down to 50/50. Nobody even came close. And that is okay. I have my beliefs and they have theirs and I respect that.

What was even more bizarre though was that nobody over there will lay out what "really" happened. And that is fine too I suppose but if you are not going to offer any alternatives, do not be upset when nobody outside of your confederates are willing to follow you. I would think that they would be chomping at the bit to state what really happened but nobody at Loose Change 911 would do so. Not only that, they offered the most bizarre explanations for the events of that tragic day. SPreston who is especially committed (or at least should be) stated that the planes were remote controlled to their targets. The hi-jackers only had to get access to the cockpit, kill the pilot and co-pilot, and implant a remote control device....so they could be flown to their deaths without having to sweat the details of flying a plane. If I'm one of these hi-jackers, I am talking to the shop steward at this point asking for re-assignment. There were people over there contending that everything from landing gears to airplane wheels to engines (which weigh several hundred pounds) was planted. Yeah, by the Incredible Hulk I'm guessing. And when confronted with the most basic questions of how you would wire 220 floors for controlled demolition (in the CD theory) and have a plane painted to resemble either a UA or AA jumbo jet (in the drones plane theory), their answer is simply, "Black ops." It made me cry--the simple mindedness of it all. Black Ops. Right. Given the years of planning involved in this conspiracy, the hundreds if not thousands of actors would probably have spilled something in the ten year period this has been going on. Nothing. Not a whisper, not a drunk call, not a single person holding their silence over the head of "Mr. big" as extortion capital...nothing at all. When asked about this, the faithful over at Loose Change 911 would remark simplistically that they are being intimidated into silence. Excuse me? The next time you are able to intimidate a black ops commando will be the very first time in the history of the world that a black ops commando was intimidated. These people disappear and make others disappear for a living and you think that someone is going to intimidate them? All in all, the loose change 911 crowd struck me as amateurish, native, and petty.

That was until I looked at the links on the first page. I did this around September once I diagnosed that I was not out of my depth with the LC911 crowd. I was much less naïve than most of them and they bored me. So I decided that there must be a more--how should I say--intelligent forum of "truthers" out there so I followed the links. One was pretty reasonable considering its company (Cooperative Research). The rest was approximately on the logic level of a five year old that was told there would be no birthday party due to him not finishing dinner. Alex Jones, I'm sorry to say, is a moron. The man is stuck on owls and even wishes to equate the wildly popular University of Texas "hook em horns" hand gesture where you put your middle two fingers and thumb together leaving your pinky and index finger outward with some sort of satanic sign. He even trudged up a still photo of George Bush doing this. Bush is from Texas and his office was in Austin for six unbelievably long years. He's going to flash the "hook em horns" sign once in a while. Along with 80,000 or so every game day Saturday in the fall at Royal Stadium.

Anyway, this post is far too long already so I'll wrap up. One of the people at LooseChange911.com told me that I should go back to "jref" which struck me as odd since I had never been her to start with. So I decided to go back to where I had never been and have been impressed with my measured involvement so far.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

Thanks

HC
 
Diagoras, your story is very similar to mine. I had become a Truther in mid 2006. After reading an article about Loose Change on Spiegel Online (whoa my career as a CT started after reading the evil Mainstream Media!!), I watched it. I had seen In Plane Site before, and I thought van Kleists(?) suggestions to be stupid, so I had already known CTs but wasn't convinced. But the squibs in Loose Change caught my Attention. My standards where high enough to not believe what some 20 year old kid tells me, so I began "researching" (i.e. google for "squibs", "wtc7", "Flight93" etc...).

Realizing that the CTs are nonsense was a process, that took about a month and could not be achieved by looking at one particular source. Realizing that experts in the field rejected these Theories was definitely helpful. As a CTer I thought these experts just never took a close look on all the Theories and that it can not be long till someone will expose the Truth or another immense False Flag Attack occurs, so that the evil NWO can turn America to Fascism to silence the Truth Movement (yes, I was REALLY scared about that :boggled: )

Today I am glad that the Truth Movement is dying and that Loose Change did not make it into Cinemas. Believing into conspiracies prevents you from dealing with real issues. That was at least my experience...
 
:words:

Sorry for the long winded reply.

Thanks

HC
Don't apologize. A lot of us are here because we went into it seeing if there was anything at all to the claims and begrudgingly had to accept there wasn't...

...and that they're crazy.

Welcome to the forums, HC. Dig your username. :)
 
There were people over there contending that everything from landing gears to airplane wheels to engines (which weigh several hundred pounds) was planted. Yeah, by the Incredible Hulk I'm guessing.


:D Well spoken. And welcome to the Forum.
 
The Incredible Hulk, AKA NWO operative no. 4736. Big Bill, as we call him......
 
Almost to a T, every conspiracy theorist who gets deprogrammed says the same thing: it was based mostly on emotion (or the theory pushed all their psychological buttons), and they only read CT sources. Once they started reading alternatives, they saw the light.

Congrats, Diagoras. Welcome back to Club Reality.
 
When you figure out the 9/11 truth movement is lying, you do not have to give up your politcal beliefs, or change parties.
 
Diagoras.

Since you are a college student from NY I assume you have been to Ground Zero? Has your experience of visiting there changed since you stopped believing woo?

What do your firends think about your change of heart? Have you lost any? or did one play a role in your change in thinkin?
No, I haven't actually visited Ground Zero. I live way upstate, and it's been a long time since I've been to the city. Last time I was there I was only briefly passing through, and the time before that I remember seeing the Twin Towers.
 
Great post. I'll now tell my own story:

My relationship with the loose change crowd was sort of over before it began. If you had to assign a number to me, I was about 60% convinced that the government had no hand in the attacks or allowing them to happen. With that ratio not being satisfactory, I made a decision to look at the other side of the coin. So in August I registered with LC911.com and decided to give them two months to push that down to 50/50. Nobody even came close. And that is okay. I have my beliefs and they have theirs and I respect that.

What was even more bizarre though was that nobody over there will lay out what "really" happened. And that is fine too I suppose but if you are not going to offer any alternatives, do not be upset when nobody outside of your confederates are willing to follow you. I would think that they would be chomping at the bit to state what really happened but nobody at Loose Change 911 would do so. Not only that, they offered the most bizarre explanations for the events of that tragic day. SPreston who is especially committed (or at least should be) stated that the planes were remote controlled to their targets. The hi-jackers only had to get access to the cockpit, kill the pilot and co-pilot, and implant a remote control device....so they could be flown to their deaths without having to sweat the details of flying a plane. If I'm one of these hi-jackers, I am talking to the shop steward at this point asking for re-assignment. There were people over there contending that everything from landing gears to airplane wheels to engines (which weigh several hundred pounds) was planted. Yeah, by the Incredible Hulk I'm guessing. And when confronted with the most basic questions of how you would wire 220 floors for controlled demolition (in the CD theory) and have a plane painted to resemble either a UA or AA jumbo jet (in the drones plane theory), their answer is simply, "Black ops." It made me cry--the simple mindedness of it all. Black Ops. Right. Given the years of planning involved in this conspiracy, the hundreds if not thousands of actors would probably have spilled something in the ten year period this has been going on. Nothing. Not a whisper, not a drunk call, not a single person holding their silence over the head of "Mr. big" as extortion capital...nothing at all. When asked about this, the faithful over at Loose Change 911 would remark simplistically that they are being intimidated into silence. Excuse me? The next time you are able to intimidate a black ops commando will be the very first time in the history of the world that a black ops commando was intimidated. These people disappear and make others disappear for a living and you think that someone is going to intimidate them? All in all, the loose change 911 crowd struck me as amateurish, native, and petty.

That was until I looked at the links on the first page. I did this around September once I diagnosed that I was not out of my depth with the LC911 crowd. I was much less naïve than most of them and they bored me. So I decided that there must be a more--how should I say--intelligent forum of "truthers" out there so I followed the links. One was pretty reasonable considering its company (Cooperative Research). The rest was approximately on the logic level of a five year old that was told there would be no birthday party due to him not finishing dinner. Alex Jones, I'm sorry to say, is a moron. The man is stuck on owls and even wishes to equate the wildly popular University of Texas "hook em horns" hand gesture where you put your middle two fingers and thumb together leaving your pinky and index finger outward with some sort of satanic sign. He even trudged up a still photo of George Bush doing this. Bush is from Texas and his office was in Austin for six unbelievably long years. He's going to flash the "hook em horns" sign once in a while. Along with 80,000 or so every game day Saturday in the fall at Royal Stadium.

Anyway, this post is far too long already so I'll wrap up. One of the people at LooseChange911.com told me that I should go back to "jref" which struck me as odd since I had never been her to start with. So I decided to go back to where I had never been and have been impressed with my measured involvement so far.

Sorry for the long winded reply.

Thanks

HC

Great recounting of your path back up the rabbit hole (though it sounds like maybe you only had one leg in to start).

As I have said before, the problem with the truth movement is they are desperately trying to unravel the blanket by picking at the little bits of lint on its surface. The trouble for them is, all the bits end just after they pull them out...they are just little bits of inconsequential coincidences.

TAM:)

PS: Welcome to the forum!
 

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