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Former anti-UHC nut

Magyar said:
This is a false dichotomy argument AND an incorrect one as well!

First what you are saying is you don't want A because be is bad!?
Well then WHY don't you apply this to EVERYTHING the govt does!? Your avatar is of some kind of service man ( Is that you?) Why are you willing to not only support but be part of something the govt does essentially on the same format as UHC/single payer in this but not something as important as health care?
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First, yes that is me in my avatar. But I am not in the military. The photo was taken at the airshow. And I think the Constitution makes it pretty clear who is responsible for the military.

SECOND and perhaps more important - It is false that the Govt cannot deliver health care efficiently and in a timely fashion that is better than the private sector - look at Medicaid! No I am not interested in getting into an anecdotal pissing match about a case by case basis - yes I readily admit that it is rife with fraud and inefficiencies. Yet dollar for dollar it is more efficient delivering 97c on the dollar over what the low 80 for the private sector.
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Medicare is only so "efficient" because they don't care if they are defrauded money (it's only tax payer money after all). And the result, of course, is that that is a large amount of fraud.
 
dtugg said:
Medicare is only so "efficient" because they don't care if they are defrauded money (it's only tax payer money after all). And the result, of course, is that that is a large amount of fraud.
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Can you make that point clearer please?

the claim was this

Yet dollar for dollar it is more efficient delivering 97c on the dollar over what the low 80 for the private sector.
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(Is there a source on that figure? sorry if I've missed a link)

I assume Medicaid doesn't actually hand out money, only treats people? Are you getting at lesser administration checks they perform?
 
dtugg said:
Medicare is only so "efficient" because they don't care if they are defrauded money (it's only tax payer money after all). And the result, of course, is that that is a large amount of fraud.
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Even assuming that is the case, consider what fraud actually entails here: to get Medicare coverage you're not entitled to. Now, what happens to Medicare's efficiency if you expand it to cover everybody? What happens to the fraud?
 
cafink said:
Would you honestly describe the existing US health care system as a "free market"?
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I wouldn't, but forum rules prevent me from calling it by a more accurate name.

Starts with "cluster", ends with a word that rhymes with "suck".
 
Leif Roar said:
Even assuming that is the case, consider what fraud actually entails here: to get Medicare coverage you're not entitled to. Now, what happens to Medicare's efficiency if you expand it to cover everybody? What happens to the fraud?
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Much of the fraud is doctors, clinics, ect. charging for services that were not actually performed.
 
dtugg said:
It's paid to healthcare providers.
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Gotcha thanks.



Is there a major difference in the level of fraud in the Government system vs the private system? On its face the system seems wide open to abuse if dead doctors (just had a quick look on google) can receive payments. It would be pretty easy to eliminate the basic fraud as well which is odd.
 
Delscottio said:
Gotcha thanks.



Is there a major difference in the level of fraud in the Government system vs the private system? On its face the system seems wide open to abuse if dead doctors (just had a quick look on google) can receive payments. It would be pretty easy to eliminate the basic fraud as well which is odd.
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As far as I am aware, fraud isn't a widespread problem in the private health insurance industry.
 
Leif Roar said:
I think I'm going to want to see your sources for that claim.
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Here is what the US government says about Medicare fraud:

Most doctors, health care providers, suppliers, and private companies who work with Medicare are honest. However, there are a few who aren’t. Medicare is trying harder than ever to find and prevent fraud and abuse by working more closely with health care providers and strengthening oversight. Fraud costs the Medicare Program millions of dollars every year. You pay for fraud with higher health care costs. Fraud schemes may be carried out by individuals, companies, or groups of individuals.

The following are examples of possible Medicare fraud:

* A health care provider bills Medicare for services you never got.
* A supplier bills Medicare for equipment you never got.
* Someone uses another person’s Medicare card to get medical care, supplies, or equipment.
* Someone bills Medicare for home medical equipment after it has been returned.
* A company offers a Medicare drug plan that hasn’t been approved by Medicare.
* A company uses false information to mislead you into joining a Medicare plan.
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http://www.stopmedicarefraud.gov/aboutfraud/index.html
 
Matthew Best said:
Just how aware do you think you are?

It just seems kinda unlikely that there wouldn't be insurance fraud in this one area of insurance, when according to the Coalition against Insurance Fraud $80 billion was lost in the United States due to insurance fraud in 2006. Why would health insurance be immune?
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I suppose it would have been more accurate to say that is not as widespread as is in Medicare.
 
dtugg said:
Here is what the US government says about Medicare fraud:
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That doesn't really support your earlier claim, though. It doesn't numerate which forms of fraud are the more common or the more expensive.
 
Leif Roar said:
That doesn't really support your earlier claim, though. It doesn't numerate which forms of fraud are the more common or the more expensive.
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I never made any claim about which was most common or expensive. That said, I suppose it is a coincidence that of the list of possible Medicare fraud named by the US government, 5 out 6 were types perpetrated by healthcare providers.
 
Darat said:
Drop to a state by state approach, as we do in the EU, which copes with a population that is about 100 million bigger than the USA population.
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Brilliant. That one comment put so much into perspective.

The best results are typically achieved in USA with the consensus of the Governors of the States.
 
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