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Foreigners defending Donbass against fascism

Bubba said:
Foreigners defending Donbass against fascism.


Why would foreigners do this...
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Some people like to go to war - or at least play at going to war.

“I always wanted to join the British army but couldn’t because of an injury. So when I had the chance to come and fight, I took it,”
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Some may have bought into the Putin narrative which says that Ukranians attempting to maintain their national borders are Nazis and have genuinely gone off to fight neo-Nazism. IMO if that is your aim then there are probably more effective ways to do that closer to home.

Some are anti-West and will do whatever they can to fight the West - even if the alternative isn't that great:

Janus Putkonen, a Finn who has run a radical online newspaper for many years, first came to the region on an organised tour and decided to stay, setting up an English-language news agency reporting from the territory. He said he was drawn to Donetsk because it is a unique opportunity to stand against western imperialist aggression.

“As goes the Donbass so goes the world. This region is preventing a third world war. That’s why I’m here,” he said. “It’s very possible that Donetsk will be the first country in the world to have a new kind of central bank, and it will be an evolution of the world system.”
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Then there are the fantasists and conspiracy theorists:

When Bentley arrived in Donetsk, the immediate suspicion among the rebels was that he could be an American spy. He defused the tension during a six-hour interrogation when the local security services asked him if he believed the US government was involved in the 9/11 attacks.

“I said of course I believe that, only a fool wouldn’t. Only idiots and liars say that was not an intentional controlled demolition.”
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The Don said:
Ukranians attempting to maintain their national borders are Nazis
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Let me guess, you don't have a clue what those symbols and red-black flags in that video represent, do you?

IMO if that is your aim then there are probably more effective ways to do that closer to home.
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Really? Feel free to point out some neo-nazi armoured battalions, and the likes, "closer to home". The only thing I can find closer to home is a handful neo-nazis, on foot (not in tanks) and without military gear, who take a walk every now and then, with the only reason they don't end up in the hospital being the lines and lines of riot police protecting them.
 
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caveman1917 said:


Let me guess, you don't have a clue what those symbols and red-black flags in that video represent, do you?
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Let me guess, every single member of the forces fighting to maintain Ukraine's territorial integrity is a member of a neo-nazi organisation ?


caveman1917 said:
Really? Feel free to point out some neo-nazi armoured battalions, and the likes, "closer to home". The only thing I can find closer to home is a handful neo-nazis, on foot (not in tanks) and without military gear, who take a walk every now and then, with the only reason they don't end up in the hospital being the lines and lines of riot police protecting them.
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You do realise that there are ways to fight neo-nazism without having to use tanks and guns ?

Almost every Western country is experiencing a rise of the "new Right". There's ample opportunity to combat neo-nazism at home.
 
The Don said:
Let me guess, every single member of the forces fighting to maintain Ukraine's territorial integrity is a member of a neo-nazi organisation ?
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Is this like "not everyone in the Wehrmacht was an NSDAP member"?

You do realise that there are ways to fight neo-nazism without having to use tanks and guns ?
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Not if they are using tanks and guns.

Almost every Western country is experiencing a rise of the "new Right". There's ample opportunity to combat neo-nazism at home.
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Like arguing against those constantly making excuses for neo-nazis? I get it though, like you they also justify themselves by appeals to "the nation" and "territory" so that's all good, right?
 
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caveman1917 said:
Is this like "not everyone in the Wehrmacht was an NSDAP member"?



Not if they are using tanks.



Like arguing against those constantly making excuses for neo-nazis? I get it though, like you they also justify themselves by appeals to "the nation" and "territory" so that's all good, right?
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How do you reconcile batting for a extreme right-wing autoritarian dictator while at the same time deploring the government forces of Ukraine for being fascists?
 
caveman1917 said:
Not if they are using tanks and guns.
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Maybe you forgot my original quote:

....and have genuinely gone off to fight neo-Nazism. IMO if that is your aim then there are probably more effective ways to do that closer to home.
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As someone living in the UK (or Finland or Spain), a more effective way to fight neo-Nazism is to do so at home rather than shipping yourself off to a foreign country and putting yourself at the behest of an extreme right-wing autoritarian dictator.

The rest of my post makes it clear how delusional some of those fighting are..
 
Fascinating to see how much immediate rhetorical support violent neo-nazi groups get from the so-called "progressives" around here.
 
caveman1917 said:
Fascinating to see how much immediate rhetorical support violent neo-nazi groups get from the so-called "progressives" around here.
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What's fascinating is how someone who complains about fascists in the Ukraine can bat for Putin with a straight face.
 
uke2se said:
Why not answer instead? Your position shows extreme hypocrisy after all. Would benefit you to have a good answer to the question.
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There is nothing to answer. You've attempted to portray pointing out neo-nazis as just "deploring government forces of being fascists" while pretending that an autocrat is an "extreme right-wing authoritarian dictator". In other words, you are simply providing rhetorical support for neo-nazi military formations by using loaded questions.
 
uke2se said:
What's fascinating is how someone who complains about fascists in the Ukraine can bat for Putin with a straight face.
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What's fascinating is how someone who complains about an autocrat in Russia can bat for literal neo-nazi military formations with a straight face.
 
caveman1917 said:
There is nothing to answer. You've attempted to portray pointing out neo-nazis as just "deploring government forces of being fascists" while pretending that an autocrat is an "extreme right-wing authoritarian dictator". In other words, you are simply providing rhetorical support for neo-nazi military formations by using loaded questions.
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I don't need to pretend anything. Putin is an extreme-right authoritarian dictator. Nazis in the ranks of the forces arrayed against Russian proxies in the Donbass is problematic. Putin is a disgrace.
 
caveman1917 said:
What's fascinating is how someone who complains about an autocrat in Russia can bat for literal neo-nazi military formations with a straight face.
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Edit: Edit-sniped

Nobody's doing that. You are batting for Putin, though.
 
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