Fool survives for three weeks in Alaskan woods after burning tarp-dwelling down

[plague311]

Think about it. Absolutely anything can be corrected in hindsight. He tried to get a fire going quicker and fed it with cardboard, likely because it had gotten damned cold. He knew that was not copasetic and was a lapse of judgement, but his rig had also been functioning without problems for months. It's not like he floundered immediately. I would venture that most posters here would be dead within a few hours after the fire. Surviving in sub zero temps with salvaged provisions is no joke. Even making a snow cave shelter that doesn't collapse on you takes some skill.

That still doesn't change the fact that it was mostly luck, and not skill, that saved him. It also doesn't change the fact that there were a myriad of things he could have done to prevent this from happening. My father says all the time "A good hunter prevents accidents, he doesn't react to them." He chose not to do that. No one here is wishing he was dead, but he's a far cry from some top tier survivalist and his ignorance led to the death of a dog. That's the part that bugs me the most. I get he's suffering too, but his dog had to pay the price.

ETA: He also wasn't living on limited resources, per himself:

He had a two-year supply of food but had stored it next to flammable oils and greases and the bullets. A propane tank also was there. He said he couldn't extinguish the fire.

...not the best plan.

 

[Thermal]

That still doesn't change the fact that it was mostly luck, and not skill, that saved him. It also doesn't change the fact that there were a myriad of things he could have done to prevent this from happening. My father says all the time "A good hunter prevents accidents, he doesn't react to them." He chose not to do that. No one here is wishing he was dead, but he's a far cry from some top tier survivalist and his ignorance led to the death of a dog. That's the part that bugs me the most. I get he's suffering too, but his dog had to pay the price.

ETA: He also wasn't living on limited resources, per himself:



...not the best plan.

Agreed for the most part, but I would assume he had prevented hundreds of accidents over the months. I assume this because he is alive.

From what I gather, he spread supplies out in his camp. It's true that he could have spread them further, and sprawled out for acres, but for practical purposes he had to keep things fairly tight. Not sure if this camp was intended to be permanent, or was a work in progress, either.

eta: cans of food in a tarp shelter is surely 'limited resources', no? I'm not saying he was living off the land entirely. But 'limited' is surely fair.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think most fire extinguishers would freeze solid in those temperatures unless kept near the fire, where it would have likely been consumed before he could get to it anyway.

Not at all, the most common fire extinguisher is a dry powder so nothing to freeze.

 

[Thermal]

Not at all, the most common fire extinguisher is a dry powder so nothing to freeze.

I was going by memory on that. I recall a household extinguisher, ABC IIRC, that was exposed to temps in the teens and burst. I assumed whatever was providing compression was freeze-expansion sensitive.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I was going by memory on that. I recall a household extinguisher, ABC IIRC, that was exposed to temps in the teens and burst. I assumed whatever was providing compression was freeze-expansion sensitive.

They are generally just compressed air not anything that would be effected by such moderate temperatures.

Cold effecting the plastic pressure vessel they used to be made of seems more likely than the contents being adversely effected. See the huge recall and reworking of fire extingushers a couple of years ago.

 

[Thermal]

And the phone with the dodgy battery?

It was a new phone, and I would have to assume a Sonim or similar rated to work in extreme temps, because it had limped along till burning in the fire.

What he said was that this new phone wouldn't keep a charge, likely due to severe cold. Assuming lithium-ion battery, that is a real problem. They do get weak in the cold.

 

[plague311]

Agreed for the most part, but I would assume he had prevented hundreds of accidents over the months. I assume this because he is alive.

Maybe, but that's something that can be said about every human that walks the Earth. It doesn't really do anything to support him being a well rounded survivalist. Just a regular guy.

From what I gather, he spread supplies out in his camp. It's true that he could have spread them further, and sprawled out for acres, but for practical purposes he had to keep things fairly tight. Not sure if this camp was intended to be permanent, or was a work in progress, either.

It could have been. I didn't get the impression he spread things out around his camp since he had to run in and all he did was grab everything off of his bed. Then he grabbed some canned foods. He didn't have anything outside from what I've read. Everything he lived on came from the house. I can tell you that I would certainly be dead from the fire because I have a serious love for my dogs. I would have burned up trying to carry him out, but I have tiny dogs. Not a medium sized one like this guy had, so I get it.

Even if it wasn't meant to be permanent or was a work in progress seems a little irrelevant. He recently bought it from someone, and knew winter was coming. A good outdoorsman would make having a solid, usable structure that would last through one of the harshest winters, or have a backup method available away from his abode, a distinct and immediate priority. A tent, shelter, supplies, etc. You always have a backup.

In North Dakota you would get laughed out of a room if you admitted to not having a full backup supply kit in your car should anything happen, and we aren't in the middle of nowhere. In all of my cars we have jumper cables, sweat pants\shirts, blankets, and dry consumables in the winter. It's just SOP.

eta: cans of food in a tarp shelter is surely 'limited resources', no? I'm not saying he was living off the land entirely. But 'limited' is surely fair.

It's probably semantic, I wouldn't call 2 years worth of food limited though. If his place hadn't burned down I would say that he was extremely well stocked as far as food goes.

 

[Thermal]

Maybe, but that's something that can be said about every human that walks the Earth. It doesn't really do anything to support him being a well rounded survivalist. Just a regular guy.

Well, a regular guy has the benefits of living in civilization. Utilities, other people and all. For him, a trip to move his bowels could be a bit more dangerous than for you or I.

It could have been. I didn't get the impression he spread things out around his camp since he had to run in and all he did was grab everything off of his bed. Then he grabbed some canned foods. He didn't have anything outside from what I've read. Everything he lived on came from the house. I can tell you that I would certainly be dead from the fire because I have a serious love for my dogs. I would have burned up trying to carry him out, but I have tiny dogs. Not a medium sized one like this guy had, so I get it.

If you look at the pics, he had a camp going, not just the quonset thing. Even storage for that much food took some space. He also thought his dog was already out, but agreed, that was damned horrible.

Even if it wasn't meant to be permanent or was a work in progress seems a little irrelevant. He recently bought it from someone, and knew winter was coming. A good outdoorsman would make having a solid, usable structure that would last through one of the harshest winters, or have a backup method available away from his abode, a distinct and immediate priority. A tent, shelter, supplies, etc. You always have a backup.

In North Dakota you would get laughed out of a room if you admitted to not having a full backup supply kit in your car should anything happen, and we aren't in the middle of nowhere. In all of my cars we have jumper cables, sweat pants\shirts, blankets, and dry consumables in the winter. It's just SOP.



It's probably semantic, I wouldn't call 2 years worth of food limited though. If his place hadn't burned down I would say that he was extremely well stocked as far as food goes.

I'm wondering a little about the timeline. He said he started the fire with some cardboard, but woke in the middle of the night to it just beginning to blaze. The cardboard should have burned up in seconds. Why did the thing not burn till hours later?

Eta: by limited resources, I meant more than just food. I mean all the stuff we don't even think about that keeps us alive.

 

[plague311]

Well, a regular guy has the benefits of living in civilization. Utilities, other people and all. For him, a trip to move his bowels could be a bit more dangerous than for you or I.

To me, they're just different dangers. Murderers, cars running you over, car accidents, home invasions, etc. None of which are fears of his at all.

If you look at the pics, he had a camp going, not just the quonset thing. Even storage for that much food took some space. He also thought his dog was already out, but agreed, that was damned horrible.

The food was all stored inside though. He said he grabbed the food he could from inside and that's what he lived on. If I remember right he mentioned saving the burned plastic food until last.

I'm wondering a little about the timeline. He said he started the fire with some cardboard, but woke in the middle of the night to it just beginning to blaze. The cardboard should have burned up in seconds. Why did the thing not burn till hours later?

Without seeing the previous home it all seems random to me. I don't really understand what caught on fire. Plastic\tarp isn't really all that flammable enough to start from a small spark I don't think, and he said he thinks it started from a tarp. If he started the fire, stripped to his long johns, climbed into bed, and then woke up to the roof already beyond his ability to put out, then I truly believe something else had to fuel this fire. I just haven't mentioned it because I have absolutely nothing to back it up. I don't know how it takes that long (at the very least 15-20) to start a tarp on fire and have it burn through a quonset. I've heard of trailer homes burning down in less time.

Eta: by limited resources, I meant more than just food. I mean all the stuff we don't even think about that keeps us alive.

Ah. I don't have much to add there.

 

[Checkmite]

Lady Luck didn't send the helicopter. People who he had been maintaining contact with and who knew of his situation and did. That's exactly what we're supposed to do when going into the wilderness, make sure that someone knows where you're going and after what length of time of no contact they should contact someone to go looking for you.

The fact that he was rescued was due precisely to the precaution that he took, not luck.

But I'm not willing to call it a precaution he took either. In his post-rescue interviews he used language that very clearly conveyed that he had hoped his relatives would set "something" in motion to try and found out what happened to him after communication ended; not that he confidently assumed they would, or that they were instructed to do so after a certain amount of time. In fact, I would use exactly these circumstances to contradict you: if he had been responsible, he would have positively set an arrangement that after exactly this much time incommunicado they should contact so-and-so. And certainly in less time than three weeks! But clearly no such arrangement existed, forcing him to "hope". According to the release, he didn't even figure on them calling rescue authorities as such - he supposed they would have contacted his air supply outfit.

He is lucky that they only waited 3 weeks. If they waited much longer, he might have run out of food, and if that happened he would be dead.

 

[plague311]

But I'm not willing to call it a precaution he took either. In his post-rescue interviews he used language that very clearly conveyed that he had hoped his relatives would set "something" in motion to try and found out what happened to him after communication ended; not that he confidently assumed they would, or that they were instructed to do so after a certain amount of time. In fact, I would use exactly these circumstances to contradict you: if he had been responsible, he would have positively set an arrangement that after exactly this much time incommunicado they should contact so-and-so. And certainly in less time than three weeks! But clearly no such arrangement existed, forcing him to "hope". According to the release, he didn't even figure on them calling rescue authorities as such - he supposed they would have contacted his air supply outfit.

He is lucky that they only waited 3 weeks. If they waited much longer, he might have run out of food, and if that happened he would be dead.

Just to add to that. He said that the meal before his last night was the worst he had because it was down to the burnt foods. He also said he started thinking about what he would do after 35 because he thought someone lived within 5 miles of him.

There was absolutely nothing certain about anything he said.

 

[Myriad]

I'm wondering a little about the timeline. He said he started the fire with some cardboard, but woke in the middle of the night to it just beginning to blaze. The cardboard should have burned up in seconds. Why did the thing not burn till hours later?

Smoldering. I have a personal anecdote that might help illustrate.

Around 2002, after a flood put our furnace out of commission, while waiting for repairs, my wife and I moved our mattress downstairs to the first floor, so we could sleep near our wood stove. The wood stove was more than adequate to heat the first floor on cold autumn nights. One night, after carefully emptying the old cold ashes from the night before, bagging them, and putting them out of the way in a plastic wastebasket, we lit the stove and went to sleep for the night.

I trust everyone immediately recognizes the foolish and potentially fatal mistake we made.

Hours later, in the middle of the night, I woke up. Because it wasn't my regular bed in regular surroundings, instead of just rolling over and going back to sleep, I opened my eyes and looked around. Across the room, I saw a faint orange glow. An ember from the "cold" ashes had smoldered through the trash bag and through the side of the wastebasket. It was the edges of the quarter-size hole in the side of the wastebasket that were glowing. Easily put out with a few ounces of water, but minutes or hours later, who knows? It might have gone out by itself. It might have continued to smolder until, when we got up in the morning, there was nothing there except a pile of old ashes mixed with residual melted plastic and a scorch mark on the wood floor. Or it might have flamed up and killed us in our sleep.

 

[Dr. Keith]

That's a Nissen hut.

The difference between them is the Quonset has a frame that the sidings are attached to.

Damn. Don't tell theprestige, I hate being wrong.

Looking around it looks to me like non-corrugated huts are still considered Quonset huts, at least people are selling them as such. I think the original Quonset's were corrugated iron, and that may well have been the original design spec, but I expect the naming has morphed to include other materials.

Fine, I'll put my narrow definition up on the shelf with my assertion that "irregardless" is not a word. I can move on, really. I rarely sip scotch while perusing that shelf in the evening. Rarely.

 

[Checkmite]

Damn. Don't tell theprestige, I hate being wrong.

Fine, I'll put my narrow definition up on the shelf with my assertion that "irregardless" is not a word. I can move on, really. I rarely sip scotch while perusing that shelf in the evening. Rarely.

Okay then, next debate: was the roof of this guy's hut flammable, or was it inflammable?

 

[CORed]

I misread "fool" as "food". He might as well have been.
There seems to be something about that state that attracts dingbats, and reality TV producers to film them.

Given the number of bears in Alaska, he's pretty lucky he didn't become food for one of them.

 

[theprestige]

Given the number of bears in Alaska, he's pretty lucky he didn't become food for one of them.

Given the number of square miles in Alaska... hrm.

There's about 134,700 bears of all species in Alaska

There's about 663,300 square miles in Alaska.

I'm having trouble braining this morning, and can't figure out if that's five bears per square mile, or one bear every five square miles. Probably one bear every five square miles.

A radius of five miles, originating at his campsite, sweeps out an area of almost 80 square miles. So that would be about... sixteen bears within say a ten mile walk of his camp?

Assuming an even distribution of spherical bears across a frictionless Alaska in a vacuum, of course.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Given the number of square miles in Alaska... hrm.

There's about 134,700 bears of all species in Alaska

There's about 663,300 square miles in Alaska.

I'm having trouble braining this morning, and can't figure out if that's five bears per square mile, or one bear every five square miles. Probably one bear every five square miles.

A radius of five miles, originating at his campsite, sweeps out an area of almost 80 square miles. So that would be about... sixteen bears within say a ten mile walk of his camp?

Assuming an even distribution of spherical bears across a frictionless Alaska in a vacuum, of course.

You're omitting a Basic Bear Fact: in the wild, bears stack themselves vertically. So while there may only be one instance of bear presence in a twenty mile radius of any given point in Alaska, that instance will be comprised of an average of between eight and forty bears. The topmost bear is the lookout.

 

[Thermal]

I thought topmost bear held the flashlight?

Also, are spherical bears in a vacuum a new Dyson product?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I thought topmost bear held the flashlight?

Also, are spherical bears in a vacuum a new Dyson product?

A Dyson Sphere full of bears? So that's what the object detected in Ursa Major is!

 

[theprestige]

You're omitting a Basic Bear Fact: in the wild, bears stack themselves vertically. So while there may only be one instance of bear presence in a twenty mile radius of any given point in Alaska, that instance will be comprised of an average of between eight and forty bears. The topmost bear is the lookout.

I thought topmost bear held the flashlight?

Also, are spherical bears in a vacuum a new Dyson product?

A Dyson Sphere full of bears? So that's what the object detected in Ursa Major is!

I... There's... This thread is delivering too much good stuff too fast. Now I've got something in my eye.

It's probably a bear.