Fluoride and Natural News

phosphates being the only natural source of fluoride

Uh, no.

Sodium fluoride and calcium fluoride are two of the most common.

And how do you explain all this fluoride conspiracy when it is the 13th most common element on the planet?

* Although fluoride, fluorine and fluorite are chemically defined compounds the terms are used inconsistently in non chemical publications.
The term fluoride is used here even when fluorine or fluorite would be the correct term.

And you might want to look into that little rhetorical convenience you use there Sparky. 'cause all those words that looks like the other, aren't.
 
Welcome to the forum, RabbitHabits! :w2:

I couldn't get your link to work, even after deleting the spaces, however I found this link from Harvard which says the average loss was only half of one IQ point. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi.html

Here's a working link to the study:
http://ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1289/ehp.1104912

And a thorough dissection of the story by Steven Novella:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antifluoridation-bad-science/

A snippet: "fluoridated water in the US has the same level of fluoride as the control or low fluoride groups in the China studies reviewed in the recent article, and the negative association with IQ was only found where fluoride levels were much higher – generally above EPA limits."

I just want to emphasize the point that Orphia is raising here. These are studies of what happens when people get too much fluoride. It does bad things to you. The amounts at issue are so high, they are hard to get. This isn't what happens to you from trivial exposure or getting fluoride treatment at your dentist. This whole fluoride and IQ stuff is for the hillbillies. Wanna be White trash? That's up to you.
 
I just want to emphasize the point that Orphia is raising here. These are studies of what happens when people get too much fluoride. It does bad things to you. The amounts at issue are so high, they are hard to get. This isn't what happens to you from trivial exposure or getting fluoride treatment at your dentist. This whole fluoride and IQ stuff is for the hillbillies. Wanna be White trash? That's up to you.

For years, in describing fluoridation vs fluoride toxicity people would use the old toxicology adage "the dose makes the poison".

Now there is actually an anti-fluoridation site that has on its masthead "The dose IS the poison!!!".

How do you argue with such simplistic ignorance?
 
For years, in describing fluoridation vs fluoride toxicity people would use the old toxicology adage "the dose makes the poison".

Now there is actually an anti-fluoridation site that has on its masthead "The dose IS the poison!!!".

How do you argue with such simplistic ignorance?

You're asking me? Put them in a box and throw it into the sea. But fortunately for these boys and girls, the police protect them.
 
My subject were results from anesthesia and the possibility of combined effects of water fluoridation and additional exposure to fluoride containing medicaments. Unfortunately the results of the study having been planned are not available caused by the special circumstances described above. Therefore my posting contains a lot of speculation which altogether can be wrong. Fact is that the study deliberately was undermined by a professional undercover from the USA. That study was about to happen in Europe. The effort alone shows that something which is not negligible is behind it. What reason could lead to the largest fluoride producer of the world thousands of miles from the company on another continent in such a way undermines a study whichs topic are fluoride containing anesthetics ? That study could also have revealed absolutely no damaging effects. In parallel the most important anesthetic (and subject of the study) being renamed from Sevoflurane into Sevorane? Is this everyday's business? If you have a better explanation for those events please let me know it.

About neurotoxicity of anesthetics in infants and children more studies are available than the famous IQ study above. The study results sometimes are diverging. That is exactly why those studies like the one being destroyed are carried out. There is still not enough evidence to prove the hypothesis or to reject it. The way how this research is blocked however is a matter of concern.

http://www.ucsfcme.com/2012/slides/MAN12001/Talks/19Stratman.pdf


PS: It is an elegant bonmot but can the sentence For years, in describing fluoridation vs fluoride toxicity people would use the old toxicology adage "the dose makes the poison". Now there is actually an anti-fluoridation site that has on its masthead "The dose IS the poison!!!". can be explained any further, in particular if it makes any sense and how it contributes to the present question?
 
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I was talking about results from anesthesia and the possibility of combined effects. Unfortunately the study results having been planned are not available caused by the special circumstances described above. Fact is that the study deliberately was undermined by a professional undercover from the USA. That study was about to happen in Europe. The effort alone shows that something which is not negligible is behind it. What reason could lead to the largest fluoride producer of the world thousands of miles from the company on another continent in such a way undermines a study whichs topic are fluoride containing anesthetics ? That study could also have revealed absolutely no damaging effects. In parallel the most important anesthetic (and subject of the study) being renamed from Sevoflurane into Sevorane? Is this everyday's business? If you have a better explanation for those events please let me know it.

About neurotoxicity of anesthestics in infants and children more studies are available than the IQ study above. The results sometimes are diverging. That is exactly why those studies like the one being destroyed are carried out.

http://www.ucsfcme.com/2012/slides/MAN12001/Talks/19Stratman.pdf

I'm not going to mention that the shoddy wording of this post could be read to mean that the results were planned before the study was carried out. Or that a couple of sentences are so jumbled as to make no sense at all.

I'm just going to ask for evidence of the highlighted parts.

Incidentally, I love anesthesia too.
 
...results from anesthesia and the possibility of combined effects of water fluoridation and additional exposure to fluoride containing medicaments. <snip>
How much fluoride would someone be exposed to if they were in an area that had fluoridation of water and they were taking "fluoride containing medicaments"? What would their 'daily dose' be?
 
I'm not going to mention that the shoddy wording of this post could be read to mean that the results were planned before the study was carried out. Or that a couple of sentences are so jumbled as to make no sense at all.


Not everyone is so lucky to be born in the beautiful country of the United States of America. I do not dare to ask you if you could give me an idea how perfectly you master the two other languages which I (am trying to) speak. However if that is your only problem I am beginning to understand what "ignorance" means in your language. You simply are not worth any scientific discussion. It doesn't help to hide ignorance behind arrogance. That is the only result which is proven in this little exchange.

Below are the links from my posting above, I hope they are working now.


http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/content/100/1/4.full
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...0f3843eff03075ee36ecee2c3f1&tab=core&_cview=1
htt://apps.shareholder.com/sec/viewerContent.aspx?companyid=IPHS&docid=5798802&print=yes
http://classes.kumc.edu/cahe/respcared/liquidventilation/wikeper.html
http://www.pharmainfo.net/reviews/artificial-blood-current-review
http://www.alspecialtygases.com/Ind_homeland_security.aspx
 
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Not everyone is so lucky to be born in the beautiful country of the United States of America. I do not dare to ask you if you could give me an idea how perfectly you master the two other languages which I (am trying to) speak. However if that is your only problem I am beginning to understand what "ignorance" means in your language. You simply are not worth any scientific discussion. It doesn't help to hide ignorance behind arrogance. That is the only result which is proven in this little exchange.

Imprimis: I'm not a USAn, English is spoken in many other countries around the world.

Secundus: I said I wasn't picking you up for shoddy english, but I did ask for evidence of the hilited sentences. Congratulations on addressing the issue I specifically said wasn't an issue. Any chance you might address the one I said was?

Hint: I am impervious to argument from intimidation.
 
Not everyone is so lucky to be born in the beautiful country of the United States of America. I do not dare to ask you if you could give me an idea how perfectly you master the two other languages which I (am trying to) speak. However if that is your only problem I am beginning to understand what "ignorance" means in your language. You simply are not worth any scientific discussion. It doesn't help to hide ignorance behind arrogance. That is the only result which is proven in this little exchange.

So... when you have a choice between a hissy fit and making sense, you go for the hissy fit?
 
My subject were results from anesthesia and the possibility of combined effects of water fluoridation and additional exposure to fluoride containing medicaments.

So, given the deadly toxicity of chlorine, we can say from your thesis that too much table salt is harmful?

BTW, do you still allege phosphates are the only natural source of fluoride?
 
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So, given the deadly toxicity of chlorine, we can say from your thesis that too much table salt is harmful?

BTW, do you still allege phosphates are the only natural source of fluoride?

At risk of muddying the waters, too much table salt _is_ harmful...

But that's sort of the point, isn't it? Too much.

Not too much is perfectly fine.
 
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How much fluoride would someone be exposed to if they were in an area that had fluoridation of water and they were taking "fluoride containing medicaments"? What would their 'daily dose' be?

It must be clear that nobody of the group had any idea of the fluoride topic, I myself included. We had heard some people talking about fluoride problems and assumed it to be a conspiracy theory. Something not being worth to care about.

The group was an anesthesia research group. In a completely unconnected study results were found like shown in the image below. Those results were by chance findings. The graph shows the extracellular intra cerebral concentration of glutamate, measured by intra cerebral micro dialysis and the correlation to the depth of anesthesia measured by the Spectral Edge Frequency SEF 95. (Glutamate in the extracelluar space of the brain is one of the damage parameters of the brain tissue).
For the adjustment of the depth of anesthesia the inhaled concentration of Halothane was used.
The results show a linear increase of the brain damage with increased concentrations of inhaled Halothane. Halothane containing two fluor atoms is added to the inspiratory gas mixture in concentrations of 0.5% to 1.5% (Sevoflurane containing 7 Fluor atoms is added by 3% - 7%. In contrary to all other anesthetic gases Sevoflurane leads to formation of 3 highly toxic compounds, the so called compounds A, B and C. The concentrations of the most toxic one, Compound A in the meantime was lowered by changing some technical details of the ventilators).

For many reasons those findings were not published. One reason is the number of measuring points. Another one is Halothane not being used anymore in anesthesia in humans.

Those preliminary findings were used to justify a further study, planned to be free of any cross influences and using the state of the art anesthetic Sevoflurane.

That was how the study was planned. The topic was the influence of the depth of anesthesia or the dirct toxicity of an aesthetic agent on the brain.

In the complete protocol not one single word about fluoride toxicity was found.

Nobody cared during the time of planning for a new face in the institution's administration. That was a mistake. That "new face" used all influence and power to stop the approved and budgeted study and finally succeeded in destroying it.
In research it is not normal that a member of the administration is using his/her influence in such a destructive way. Therefore the backgrounds of the individual was "researched" and the details described in the first posting were found. The name INNOPHOS which was at the time being the true employer of the person was a surprise, phosphates playing absolutely no role in anesthesia. When it was found that phosphate mining also means "fluoride recovery" the first connection to the fluoride topic was made. That was some five months ago. I excuse myself for not having become a fluoride specialist in this very short time. If the topics above however truly are connected it is an ethical duty to give out a warning even if the scientific evidence is incomplete. That pool of evidence will not significantly grow if the actors of fluoride administration continue to work this way.
That is another reason to make our experience public. In Europe the water is not fluoridated. It is not our brain which is at risk and not our children being the losers. Those are yours and you are free to make jokes about any warning and to ignore all data. Brain damaged people also can have a happy life.


Please refrain from criticizing my grammars or wordings. That is exactly the reason why I had to become a physician and not Shakespeare. That still hurts me.


In
 
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Just came across this old post by "Dr. Max". It says little but clarifies much:

I haven*t read the article because I know the people. As a physician and working in research I have nothing against vaccinations with one very severe limitation: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/west_edda.html

Bolding mine.
 
Can you, or can you not, provide evidence that
the study deliberately was undermined by a professional undercover from the USA.
?

Search for the name "Myrick".

Do you understand the difference between an element (and ion) and a compound?

I do, but not in the correct English terminology

Again: I have no benefit for myself from this discussion. It is up to you to act as responsible citizens. I will leave the discussion therefore.
 
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I do, but not in the correct English terminology

What "correct english terminology"? These are specific scientific terms, there are no gray areas. If you don't know that a compound containing fluorine is different from the element fluorine, you are a fraud.

Again: I have no benefit for myself from this discussion. It is up to you to act as responsible citizens. I will leave the discussion therefore.

After that answer, good choice. You pretty much hit bottom.
 
You pretty much hit bottom.
That depends from the point of view.


It might have slipped your attention that fluorine is added to tap water as sodium hexafluorosilicate of fluorosilicic acid. Halothoane and Sevoflurane both are halogenated fluorocarbons, HFCs. The expression "compound" therefore is more adequate than talking about "fluorine atoms" or ions.
That semantic topic however is not the core of the discussion.

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/chem_background/exsumpdf/fluorosilicates.pdf
 
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