Flu Shots

[Dymanic]

The last time I had flu that I recall was also about 25 to 30 years ago.

The fact that YOU haven't caught the flu certainly doesn't suggest that flu isn't out there. If it's really been that long since your immune system has encountered an influenza virus, one implication of that is that the antigens borne by presently circulating strains are going to be very different from any to which you possess immune memory. Maybe you've just been lucky or maybe there's some other reason you've been spared, but whatever it is, one probable result is that your chances of a severe encounter are increasing with each passsing year.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Had the flu shot this morning. Just maybe a wee bit sore in the area I was shot. There are 3 strains covered in the shot this year.

I have a sensitivity to eggs, and even though I usually take an antihistamine as a precaution- I didn't bother this time. (wouldn't recommend this to anyone with a severe egg allergy though)

I'm sorry to say I didn't get any a darn reaction at all, not one hive, not any itching at the site even. I was hoping to liven up this thread a bit, but no such luck.

No blood, not even any ooze.
*throws out unneeded cotton swab with tape*

I work around pregnant moms and kids, as well as the elderly with chronic conditions. Now I've done all I can this year to prevent spreading nasty flu bugs around the centre. It was an easy thing to do, and free because of my job. The rest of the time I will follow the handwashing protocols to do that much more.

Will report back tomorrow if there's any headache.

 

[Physiotherapist]

I think I just have an extremely good immune system and this coupled with a good quality diet and plenty of exercise seems to render me immune to most things, when others around me are falling like flies.

I do remember the last time I had flu at school and it was pretty nasty, however, rather than being one of the first to get it, I was in fact one of the last people to get it.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

The rising death toll is attributed largely to the nation's growing number of elderly people, who are especially vulnerable to the flu.

Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson said the news "that influenza may be taking an even larger toll than we have realized" underscores the importance of flu shots, especially for older people.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/07/health/main535605.shtml

I got the shot because I will be around a lot of ederly folks, not just my own grandparents. It will help get some herd immunity up to protect folks who don't get the shot. Will your grandparents get the shot this year? What about elderly parents? Would you get the shot to help shield them?

The flu shot is not covered for people at certain ages because they are not as at much risk of dying. We already know that.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/07/health/main535605.shtml

I got the shot because I will be around a lot of ederly folks, not just my own grandparents. It will help get some herd immunity up to protect folks who don't get the shot. Will your grandparents get the shot this year? What about elderly parents? Would you get the shot to help shield them?

The flu shot is not covered for people at certain ages because they are not as at much risk of dying. We already know that.

My mother's excellent GP has told her that she is not in an at-risk group, but because she is over 65, she can have a flu jab if she wants one.

If I was working with vulnerable people, I would get a flu shot (for what it's worth).

 

[Rolfe]

I think I just have an extremely good immune system and this coupled with a good quality diet and plenty of exercise seems to render me immune to most things, when others around me are falling like flies.

I do remember the last time I had flu at school and it was pretty nasty, however, rather than being one of the first to get it, I was in fact one of the last people to get it.

You may have a naturally good immune system, however, do you have any evidence that "a good quality diet" makes any difference? While I accept that malnutrition and deficiencies may increase susceptibility to infection, beyond this I know of no influence of diet quality.

In addition, why should exercise confer resistance to infectious disease? In fact, exercise may reduce the immune response by increasing concentrations of steroid hormones, which can be immunosuppressive. What is it that can improve the immune response, that I don't know about?

Rolfe.

PS. Still a bit tender on the right arm which got the pneumococcus jag, otherwise nothing. Still got the darn headache, i.e. situation normal.

Last night my mother asked me if I'd had any reaction to the flu jag. I said no, apart from slight tenderness in the arm. She said it was the same for her. She then launched into a rant about all the old biddies she's spoken to who swore that the vaccine gave you the flu and they felt bad after it and so on. She declared that she thought this was total nonsense. I remarked that I could say I'd slept badly and felt unwell the next day, but I thought that was unrelated to the vaccination. Of course, if I was predisposed to blame the vaccine, then undoubtedly I would. I think some people even imagine themselves into symptoms by anticipating them when the are vaccinated.

 

[Physiotherapist]

Yes, I agree that too much exercise can be immunosuppressive. However, moderate exercise can help boost the immune system.

I remember as a student in London, I would cycle to lectures, which was a good round trip. I was always more worried at times about London traffic and ensuring that I didn't get knocked off the bike by some maniac, not looking where they were going than I ever was about getting flu - which I never did and have not done since.

 

[Capsid]

Yes, I agree that too much exercise can be immunosuppressive. However, moderate exercise can help boost the immune system.

I remember as a student in London, I would cycle to lectures, which was a good round trip. I was always more worried at times about London traffic and ensuring that I didn't get knocked off the bike by some maniac, not looking where they were going than I ever was about getting flu - which I never did and have not done since.

What do you mean by "boost the immune system"?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I do relatively little exercise and could eat much better than I usually do. I hardly ever get colds etc and I can't remember having the flu (though I may have had it as a child).

Don't you just love those anecdotes...?

 

[Physiotherapist]

I eat a balanced diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables, chicken, fish, little red meat and plenty of nuts and seeds. I find that if I eat like this, I always seem to have a lot more energy than if I eat processed food.

Exercise also helps me to feel more energised too. It keeps my muscles toned and my joints are also more flexible because of this.

People who eat a lot of processed food and have a very poor diet can be vitamin and mineral deficient.

These deficiencies can lead to people being more susceptible to disease, such as colds, flu's etc.

 

[Physiotherapist]

I do relatively little exercise and could eat much better than I usually do. I hardly ever get colds etc and I can't remember having the flu (though I may have had it as a child).

I take it you have had a flu vaccination then? Or is this just one of your little anecdotes?!!

 

[Rolfe]

I eat a balanced diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables, chicken, fish, little red meat and plenty of nuts and seeds. I find that if I eat like this, I always seem to have a lot more energy than if I eat processed food.

Exercise also helps me to feel more energised too. It keeps my muscles toned and my joints are also more flexible because of this.

People who eat a lot of processed food and have a very poor diet can be vitamin and mineral deficient.

These deficiencies can lead to people being more susceptible to disease, such as colds, flu's etc.

That's mostly complete woo-woo waffle.

Yes, actual genuine deficiencies can predispose to disease, but these are relatively rare. The rest of it is just unsubstantiated anecdote.

How can exercise "boost the immune system"? What do you mean by "boost the immune system"? I want specifics here.

Rolfe.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

There's this on exercise and the immune system:

Comparison of immune function in athletes and nonathletes reveals that the adaptive immune system is largely unaffected by athletic endeavour. The innate immune system appears to respond differentially to the chronic stress of intensive exercise, with natural killer cell activity tending to be enhanced while neutrophil function is suppressed. However, even when significant changes in the level and functional activity of immune parameters have been observed in athletes, investigators have had little success in linking these to a higher incidence of infection and illness. Many components of the immune system exhibit change after prolonged heavy exertion. During this 'open window' of altered immunity (which may last between 3 and 72 hours, depending on the parameter measured), viruses and bacteria may gain a foothold, increasing the risk of subclinical and clinical infection. However, no serious attempt has been made by investigators to demonstrate that athletes showing the most extreme post-exercise immunosuppression are those that contract an infection during the ensuing 1 to 2 weeks. This link must be established before the 'open window' theory can be wholly accepted. The influence of nutritional supplements, primarily zinc, vitamin C, glutamin and carbohydrate, on the acute immune response to prolonged exercise has been measured in endurance athletes. Vitamin C and glutamine have received much attention, but the data thus far are inconclusive. The most impressive results have been reported in the carbohydrate supplementation studies. Carbohydrate beverage ingestion has been associated with higher plasma glucose levels, an attenuated cortisol and growth hormone response, fewer perturbations in blood immune cell counts, lower granulocyte and monocyte phagocytosis and oxidative burst activity, and a diminished pro- and anti-inflammatory cytokine response. It remains to be shown whether carbohydrate supplementation diminishes the frequency of infections in the recovery period after strenuous exercise. Studies on the influence of moderate exercise training on host protection and immune function have shown that near-daily brisk walking compared with inactivity reduced the number of sickness days by half over a 12- to 15-week period without change in resting immune function. Positive effects on immunosurveillance and host protection that come with moderate exercise training are probably related to a summation effect from acute positive changes that occur during each exercise bout. No convincing data exist that moderate exercise training is linked with improved T helper cell counts in patients with HIV, or enhanced immunity in elderly participants.

 

[Physiotherapist]

That's mostly complete woo-woo waffle.

Far from it Rolfe!!!

Why do you think the obesity epidemic is growing? There are people out there who do eat lots of processed food, fish and chips and MacDonalds on a daily basis, week in week out and year in year out. They don't seem to know any better and this coupled with a lack of exercise signals obesity and vitamin and mineral deficiencies with everything in the body working less efficiently.

Did you ever watch Supersize Me? This American guy lived on MacDonalds food for a whole month. He had a cardiologist and a DO who were looking after him during this time and he underwent a full medical exam and had bloods taken beforehand and everything was in normal range. After a month, his weight had increased by 2 stones, his cholesterol, which was normal before had increased to about 6 and most worrying was his liver enzymes, which had increased to dangerous levels, as if he had been consuming too much alcohol. The medics informed him that if he had continued this diet he would have had liver damage. By the end of the month, he felt unwell, had poor skin and had no energy whatsoever. Once he went back to his normal diet and started to exercise again, he felt better and did eventually loose the excess weight that he had put on.

This is an extreme example, but there are people like this around and couch potatoes who eat a very poor diet all the time that is highly processed, with a lot of saturated fat and sugar can be at risk of obesity, diabetes, stroke, heart attack and vitamin and mineral deficiencies because they can not get what they need from the quality of the food they are eating.

I do believe the saying that "you are what you eat".

I am lucky in my work as a Physical Therapist and Sports Massage Therapist, that I do a lot of work with athletes who are in very good physical shape. They like to keep that way too.

So no Rolfe, it is no a lot of "woo-woo nonsense" as you put it. It is a sad fact and a reality of life.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I take it you have had a flu vaccination then? Or is this just one of your little anecdotes?!!

I am entitled to get the flu vaccine, as I have asthma. But I don't usually get around to having it. I think I have had it once, maybe twice.

So, yeah, it was just an anecdote to demonstrate why your anecdote doesn't necessarily mean anything.

 

[Acleron]

Far from it Rolfe!!!

Why do you think the obesity epidemic is growing?

Lack of vaccination to adenovirus?

 

[Dymanic]

What do you mean by "boost the immune system"? I want specifics here.

Me too. Maybe we could look at what is mean by the terms: "immunocompromised" and "immunosuppressed", and then work backwards from there. Or we could look at autoimmune disorders in the hope of finding some point at which further "boosting" of an immune system might not be an obviously good thing.

One way to increase immunity to a specific pathogen is to provoke a humoral response, but that requires actual exposure to the foreign antigens, either through vaccination or infection. Short of that, I'm not sure what could be done to "boost" the system's ability to form antibodies -- but there are subtle aspects to the interplay between humoral and cell-mediated immune response, and this surely includes some aspects which are not yet understood, so maybe there's some room for "boostability" there.

 

[JJM]

Far from it Rolfe!!!

Why do you think the obesity epidemic is growing? There are people out there who do eat lots of processed food, fish and chips and MacDonalds on a daily basis, week in week out and year in year out. They don't seem to know any better and this coupled with a lack of exercise signals obesity and vitamin and mineral deficiencies with everything in the body working less efficiently.

Did you ever watch Supersize Me? {snip}

This is an extreme example, but there are people like this around and couch potatoes who eat a very poor diet all the time that is highly processed, with a lot of saturated fat and sugar can be at risk of obesity, diabetes, stroke, heart attack and vitamin and mineral deficiencies because they can not get what they need from the quality of the food they are eating.

I do believe the saying that "you are what you eat". {snip}

So no Rolfe, it is no a lot of "woo-woo nonsense" as you put it. It is a sad fact and a reality of life.

Do you have anything to offer other than anecdote? Do you understand why anecdote is unacceptable?

You believe the saying you quote; but belief is all you can have when you have no data.

What are these vitamin and mineral deficiencies? Are they recorded in medical literature (let's stick to developed countries)?

 

[JJM]

I eat a balanced diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables, chicken, fish, little red meat and plenty of nuts and seeds. I find that if I eat like this, I always seem to have a lot more energy than if I eat processed food.

"Seem" is the operative word, here, in this anecdote.

{snip} People who eat a lot of processed food and have a very poor diet can be vitamin and mineral deficient.

These deficiencies can lead to people being more susceptible to disease, such as colds, flu's etc.

Where has this been published in the medical literature?

 

[Physiotherapist]

I was talking about developed countries! Oh, I forgot, it isn't where you come from - the States!!!

It is not anecdote and can all be proved by simple blood tests.

Blood tests are fact.