Flight AA77 on 9/11

[BCR]

Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon

Warren's paper is hot off the press. Worth a review.

A brief look-over compares with the analysis and conclusions reached by folks here at JREF.

The recent complete decoding of the FDR file has enlarged and clarified the information available and has thereby enabled resolution of the contradictions. It is clear that this file supports the official account of the course of flight AA 77 and the consequent impact with the Pentagon. The file thus also supports the majority of eyewitness reports.

 

[funk de fino]

I'd like to see the CIT defenders here have a shufty at this.

 

[adkinsjr]

The 9/11 "truth" cult fanatics will be all over it soon enough, declaring the paper a fraud just like they did the NIST report on WTC7. Just give them time...

 

[DGM]

I was surprised to see Frank Legge listed as one of the authors. Didn't he have some "unique" theories about what happened at one time?

 

[Triterope]

I'd like to see the CIT defenders here have a shufty at this.

I'm sure they will, since the paper is a big middle finger to CIT. It all but calls them out by name:

One group asserts that the plane approached from a direction which would not have permitted it to create the observed straight line of damage through the light poles and inside the Pentagon. This assertion is based on the group’s discovery of 13 eyewitnesses who allegedly place the course of the plane to the north of the former Citgo service station.

 

[Senenmut]

did you ever receive a copy of the files? if so, was this before warren did?

 

[BCR]

did you ever receive a copy of the files? if so, was this before warren did?

If that is directed at me, yes. Warren picked up where I left off. I did not have the programming skills required to decompress the data. All of my pre-decode work was done correlating the radar data to the available FDR data which indicated ~6 +/- 2 seconds of missing data. Warren recovered ~ 5 seconds of data no available in the NTSB CSV file output.

 

[Senenmut]

If that is directed at me, yes. Warren picked up where I left off. I did not have the programming skills required to decompress the data. All of my pre-decode work was done correlating the radar data to the available FDR data which indicated ~6 +/- 2 seconds of missing data. Warren recovered ~ 5 seconds of data no available in the NTSB CSV file output.

so the file you got via foia also had that data attached to it but you couldnt access it because you didnt know how?

a couple of things interests me:
from that pdf file ya linked-

"One form could not be understood by inspection and the other, a readable comma-separated values (CSV) file, had some columns of data missing, a critical omission being radio height. After considerable difficulty, assistance in interpreting the coded file was received and the result came into public hands."

1. what is that "one form that could not be understood by inspection"???


2. when the article states that "after considerable difficulty, assistance in interpreting the coded file was received", are ya talking about the csv or the 1st form that "could not be understood by inspecion"?

3. did the file that you got from your foia contain "two forms" of data? if so, it sounds like you knew there was more data there and you just couldnt access it?

4. did pilots for 911 truth get both forms of data when they filed their foia? could they "see" that there was extra data there that they coulnt access. i know you might not be able to answer for them but you might know something.

thanks

 

[BCR]

Well, the short version.

1) The fdr file which is a raw dump from the FDR.

2) The fdr file.

3) The data in the fdr file is compressed with a Hoffman algorithm so that more data can be stored in the fdr. This requires some work at the binary level to solve unless the manufacturer provides the algorithm used to compress the data. Warren was able to reverse-engineer the algorithm.

4) Yes. Warren belongs to P4T. Well at least he did until his work began to verify mine

 

[beachnut]

1. what is that "one form that could not be understood by inspection"???

The raw data structure was specified in a file and individual items were defined. Here is the descriptor for DME, it is found in word 222. 10 bits are used to store this DME value. The raw file has 256 12 bit words for each second of data, that is 256 words per sub-frame in database. The raw files have to be decoded.

Uid: DM_DST_L
Abbrev: DM_DST_L
Name: DME DISTANCE-LEFT
Units: NM
Minimum Value: 0
Maximum Value: 255.75
Digits Displayed: 2
Signed Value: No
Parameter Type: Linear
Format is y = m*x + b: m = 0.25, b = 0
Sampling Freq.(hz): 0.25
Number of bits: 10
Locations/value: 1
Frame(s) Subframe(s) Word Start Bit End Bit
ALL 3 222 3 12
Number of Tests: 0

2. when the article states that "after considerable difficulty, assistance in interpreting the coded file was received", are ya talking about the csv or the 1st form that "could not be understood by inspecion"?

Warren used a file with hundreds of descriptors to build a program to decode the data.

http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRDecoder/

3. did the file that you got from your foia contain "two forms" of data? if so, it sounds like you knew there was more data there and you just couldnt access it?

Anyone could have access to the files. Anyone could see if they analyzed the data that some information had not been decoded by the NTSB. I think there were over 24 hours of flight time on the FDR - As you can see in the OP paper, Warren can decode any time he wants from many flights contained in Flight 77's FDR which confirm it was Flight 77 and confirms or shows what kind of errors there are in position and pressure altitude in regular use, in reality, due to the way aircraft and systems are.

4. did pilots for 911 truth get both forms of data when they filed their foia? could they "see" that there was extra data there that they coulnt access. i know you might not be able to answer for them but you might know something.

Pilots for truth also got "both" sets of data. The pilot for truth decode included one extra second more than the NTSB decode. Warren was able to decode the 4 seconds the NTSB did not. Remember the NTSB was not trying to solve why 77 crashed, they were producing products for the FBI. I assume or guess the FBI might be interested in when the terrorists took the jet physically, which is seen in the data if you know what you are looking for. The fact is the NTSB did not do an NTSB investigation, they investigate accidents, not crimes.


For those who think Warren's work is not valid; the NTSB and the Pilots for Truth decode match Warren's work, and Warren's software is able to decode the incomplete Frame (or whatever was stopping the p4t and the NTSB; why did the p4t EXPERTS fail to decode the last seconds and get teh truth out?), the last 4 seconds.

http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRDecoder/ Warren's website tells all.

 

[Jackanory]

Well, the short version.

1) The fdr file which is a raw dump from the FDR.

2) The fdr file.

3) The data in the fdr file is compressed with a Hoffman algorithm so that more data can be stored in the fdr. This requires some work at the binary level to solve unless the manufacturer provides the algorithm used to compress the data. Warren was able to reverse-engineer the algorithm.

4) Yes. Warren belongs to P4T. Well at least he did until his work began to verify mine

Can the process that Warren and yourself have undertaken be replicated?

Is the data pure and raw?

Can the data be gained via FOIA?

Has P4T had the capability and knowledge to be capable of doing this themselves?

If they have..........why would it be that they havnt?

If they havnt...........have you given them enough guidance for them to now do it themselves?

Are CIT capable of even following this thread?

Thanks John. Warren.

Sure is more interesting than chasing T2 and T3.

 

[BCR]

Can the process that Warren and yourself have undertaken be replicated?

Yes, Warren has the C# source code he developed available for download on his site (Beachnut gave the links above). He also has a link to Microsofts C# compiler linked (free).

Is the data pure and raw?

That I can't tell you. The NTSB says it is the raw data dump from the FDR recovered at the Pentagon. At this point, no reason to dispute that claim.

Can the data be gained via FOIA?

Beachnut covered that in his post above. Yes, you can submit a FOIA and obtain a copy for yourself directly from them, or you can just download it from Warren's site.

Has P4T had the capability and knowledge to be capable of doing this themselves?

Yes, they had Warren. I also started out doing my research with P4T. Just like when I discovered the missing data issue, Warren is learning what it means to disagree with CAPT Bob.

If they have..........why would it be that they havnt?

They have, like I said, both Warren and I began with P4T.

If they havnt...........have you given them enough guidance for them to now do it themselves?

It does not fit their paradigm so they do not wish any 'guidance'.

Are CIT capable of even following this thread?

Yes, but they are too invested in their 'earth-shattering cuckoo-flew-over-the-cuckoo's-nest hypothesis'.

Thanks John. Warren.

You are welcome.

Sure is more interesting than chasing T2 and T3.

But I love the terminator series

 

[BCR]

Poor Warren, thrown under the P4T bus ....

It's a team out of Australia. Stutt, Legge, and Bursill. Working in conjunction with the American and Canadian (Jeff Hill) counter parts. The movement is infested and they are desperately trying to contain the evidence/analyses from PFT/CIT.

Someone in the truth movement actually does some first class analysis and people just don't appreciate it. And after all that hard work too.

 

[KDLarsen]

I see Tino/Turbofan isn't having any of it either over on ATS.

He even started a new topic, declaring that Legge et al was disgracing the truth movement. Funny enough, if you ask the rest of the TM, they believe the no-planers are the ones doing the disgracing

 

[Jackanory]

Yes, Warren has the C# source code he developed available for download on his site (Beachnut gave the links above). He also has a link to Microsofts C# compiler linked (free).



That I can't tell you. The NTSB says it is the raw data dump from the FDR recovered at the Pentagon. At this point, no reason to dispute that claim.



Beachnut covered that in his post above. Yes, you can submit a FOIA and obtain a copy for yourself directly from them, or you can just download it from Warren's site.



Yes, they had Warren. I also started out doing my research with P4T. Just like when I discovered the missing data issue, Warren is learning what it means to disagree with CAPT Bob.



They have, like I said, both Warren and I began with P4T.



It does not fit their paradigm so they do not wish any 'guidance'.



Yes, but they are too invested in their 'earth-shattering cuckoo-flew-over-the-cuckoo's-nest hypothesis'.



You are welcome.



But I love the terminator series

Thanks John.

I was aware that most had been answered previously. I just wanted to clarify with some none techy questions for the none techy lurkers. Me included. I also wanted it made clear that the frauds over at the tree fort have access to it too. It would appear that they did, ignored it and are now building their defences. LOL.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Wow, so after more then 9 years some members of the Truth Movement have proven what the rest of us knew on 9/11. (And the rest of the Truth Movement is still denying it. )

 

[tsig]

Poor Warren, thrown under the P4T bus ....



Someone in the truth movement actually does some first class analysis and people just don't appreciate it. And after all that hard work too.

And now the rest of the story:

to produce a paper to undermine PFT and their sterling, and truly peer-reviewed, analysis of the alleged Flt77 black box data



Alleged black box? If they didn't think the data was reliable why spend time decoding it?

 

[Edx]

Alleged black box? If they didn't think the data was reliable why spend time decoding it?

Because if its real then it proves inside job, if its fake it proves inside job.

 

[Senenmut]

Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon

Warren's paper is hot off the press. Worth a review.

A brief look-over compares with the analysis and conclusions reached by folks here at JREF.

one more question. if warren was a member of PFT, why did he not just use their copy of the data? why go through the whole motion of filing a FOIA request?

 

[Senenmut]

The raw data structure was specified in a file and individual items were defined. Here is the descriptor for DME, it is found in word 222. 10 bits are used to store this DME value. The raw file has 256 12 bit words for each second of data, that is 256 words per sub-frame in database. The raw files have to be decoded.

Warren used a file with hundreds of descriptors to build a program to decode the data.

http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRDecoder/


Anyone could have access to the files. Anyone could see if they analyzed the data that some information had not been decoded by the NTSB. I think there were over 24 hours of flight time on the FDR - As you can see in the OP paper, Warren can decode any time he wants from many flights contained in Flight 77's FDR which confirm it was Flight 77 and confirms or shows what kind of errors there are in position and pressure altitude in regular use, in reality, due to the way aircraft and systems are.



Pilots for truth also got "both" sets of data. The pilot for truth decode included one extra second more than the NTSB decode. Warren was able to decode the 4 seconds the NTSB did not. Remember the NTSB was not trying to solve why 77 crashed, they were producing products for the FBI. I assume or guess the FBI might be interested in when the terrorists took the jet physically, which is seen in the data if you know what you are looking for. The fact is the NTSB did not do an NTSB investigation, they investigate accidents, not crimes.


For those who think Warren's work is not valid; the NTSB and the Pilots for Truth decode match Warren's work, and Warren's software is able to decode the incomplete Frame (or whatever was stopping the p4t and the NTSB; why did the p4t EXPERTS fail to decode the last seconds and get teh truth out?), the last 4 seconds.

http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRDecoder/ Warren's website tells all.

thanks for all the input.