Flight 93

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

Have you identified the plane and had people confirm the plane at the airport is the one they saw on 9/11?

Have you proved otherwise?
WAIT! I forgot!!!!
You are only posting in an internet forum!!!!

 

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

I know about traumatic events and the aftermath. I was in Homestead Fla on Aug 24, 1992, and took a direct hit from Hurricane Andrew. I had to dig my family out from under a wall during the eye of the storm, then I got caught outside as the second band of the hurricane came over. I remember it all as vividly as if it happened 10 minutes ago.

GOT PROOF? PICS? I CAN'T TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT!

Prove any fact I provided is wrong. Go on now! I'll be waiting...

I will be waiting for YOUR "proof"..........

 

[TC329]

Have you proved otherwise?
WAIT! I forgot!!!!
You are only posting in an internet forum!!!!

yeah thats the only thing i'm doin......

yes i have proven otherwise.

now lets talk about lee purbaugh and his insistance that the plane he watched crash crashed right side up and not upside down.

what are your thoughts on that?

and other than lee purbaugh can you name another witness that actually was there to watch the plane actually impact the ground?

 

[Southwind17]

No, I do not agree.

This craft would have been at the impact spot at the time of the explosion.

Evidence? Do you realize how much ground an aircraft typically covers in, say 10 seconds?

That local yocal pilot would have had one hell of a story to run and tell everyone especially the media.

He might, had he seen something. Do planes have telescopic rear-view mirrors? I don't know - just asking!

No such thing exists.

Care to elaborate?

Not even the fake Falcon20 cover story puts the plane at the time and altitutude that eyewitnesses do.

What "time" and "altitude" would they be, then?

 

[Southwind17]

There's really nothing more that can be added constructively.

So you disagree with the counter-arguments, but you can't, or are not prepared to, say why. What do you suppose people might deduce from that stance?

You haven't changed my mind, I'm not going to change your mind ...

I'd prefer it if you refrained from likening our respective levels of thinking and analysis, thank you Doug.

... so sometimes it's just better to agree to disagree, don't you think?

Only if you're inclined to close your mind to other possibilities. You present more, sorry some, facts supporting your case, and I'll happily consider them.

Well, I'll say this as nicely as I can: If you let someone else convince you that your memory is false, tainted, inaccurate or whatever they want to label it, that's all on you, SouthWind, not me.

I'm a realist, Doug. Not like you. I accept that, on some, indeed many, issues, some people are better placed to comment than I. That's why I consult a GP, for example, when I'm very sick, rather than electing to self-diagnose.

You've allowed someone else to create your memory for you.

No. I've simply opened my mind to the idea that my memory might not always serve me as well as I'd like to think it does, which is consistent with related studies. You'd do well to question whether you, too, are not that perfectly functioning being that you seem to think you are.

I don't allow other others to dictate to me what I remember or know.

No, me neither. Did I suggest that I do?

Believe it or not, I can relate to your story in that link, as I have experienced similar sightings myself, and have had even closer, more personal experiences. No one, and I do mean NO ONE, will convince me otherwise, nor will they dictate to me what I saw. They weren't there, *I* was. It's really just that simple.

Ah, close mindedness. The thief of critical thinking!

I reject psychobabble 100%. It's a wholesale pseudo-science enterprise invented to make people who couldn't cut it in the medical field rich. We can't leave out the facts when considering other possibilities and probabilities. Period. The number of witnesses I provided (5) isn't the total sum of witnesses that reported Flight 93 being over Indian Lake. Residents of Indian Lake Village called the sheriff's office and reported a plane flying overhead, falling apart and dropping pieces on their houses and in their yards. The information is available to anyone who is interested enough to look for it. I'm not here to do the homework for everyone, or anyone for that matter.

Do you have anything Doug, anything at all, other than eye/sound witness statements?

I never said my memory was infallible, did I?

Er ... this comes pretty close:

No one, and I do mean NO ONE, will convince me otherwise, nor will they dictate to me what I saw.

I said I remember ONE EVENT, a major traumatic event, like it happened 10 minutes ago.

There's a clue here Doug. See if you can spot it.

If you're struggling with the facts, I would suggest going back through this thread a few pages and refreshing your memory.

OK, I will. Oh ... hang on though ... no need, you've done it for me:

The simple fact is that the witness testimony on the day of the event differs sharply from the government released "data", which was released 5 months later.

Ah, the facts, sorry "fact", singular, revealed at last: Witness testimony differs from the official data. Allow me to repeat that, ladies and gentlemen, I realize it's a lot to take in and assimilate: Witness testimony differs from the official data.

Well there we have it. How could anybody not conclude from this that it was an inside job. It's so obvious, isn't it. Staring us right in the face all along, and we missed it, until now. Thanks Doug, we're all eternally grateful.

 

[TC329]

Evidence? Do you realize how much ground an aircraft typically covers in, say 10 seconds?

Evidence on top of all the eyewitness reports already posted stating a plane came from Indian Lake towards the crash site arriving there at the exact moment of the crash along with my own personal interview with Susan McElwain confirming this event and timing? Well geez I guess when you take away all the eyewitnesses that would leave me with all the videos and photographs.........

He might, had he seen something. Do planes have telescopic rear-view mirrors? I don't know - just asking!

There was no one there. Mr Will was not there at that time.

Care to elaborate?

no pilot exists who says he was there at that exact moment which according to the official story there was no plane there other than flight 93 at that exact moment. which leaves no explanation for the eyewitnesses who place the plane above Indian Lake flying north over Val McClatchey's house towards the crash site which can't be the same plane that is coming over the Bridge St/Buckstown Rd intersection either.

What "time" and "altitude" would they be, then?

Well seismic data says Flight 93 crashed at 10:06 so the time would be 10:06 and the altitude would be under 100 feet and in Susan McElwains case much much lower perhaps 25 feet agl.

 

[TC329]

anyone care to discuss the implications of Lee Purbaugh's insistance that the plane he watched crash was NOT flying inverted?

 

[DGM]

[qimg]http://killtown.911review.org/images/flight93/gallery/aerial_msnbc.jpg[/qimg]

anyone care to discuss the implications of Lee Purbaugh's insistance that the plane he watched crash was NOT flying inverted?

Why don't you discuss it with Bob Blair, Terry Butler and Tim Thomsberg who seem to disagree with the way he remembers it.

Didn't he (Purbaugh) also say that it passed 50 feet over his head swerved back and forth then crash nose first 300 yards away? Sounds like the whole event may have freaked him out a bit (understandable).

 

[Southwind17]

Evidence on top of all the eyewitness reports already posted stating a plane came from Indian Lake towards the crash site arriving there at the exact moment of the crash along with my own personal interview with Susan McElwain confirming this event and timing? Well geez I guess when you take away all the eyewitnesses that would leave me with all the videos and photographs.........

Thank you for helping make my case. If you take away the eye-sound witness statements, what, exactly, do you have left?

There was no one there. Mr Will was not there at that time.

Thank you again.

no pilot exists who says he was there at that exact moment which according to the official story there was no plane there other than flight 93 at that exact moment.

And again (this is fun!).

... which leaves no explanation for the eyewitnesses who place the plane above Indian Lake flying north over Val McClatchey's house towards the crash site which can't be the same plane that is coming over the Bridge St/Buckstown Rd intersection either.

No explanation? Oops! You do realise that the crash site is due west of Val McClatchey's house, don't you? Any plane passing north over Val McClatchey's house is heading nowhere near the crash site. In fact, it's distance from the crash site is increasing, if it continues due north! It could, however, be heading north in preparation for a left turn as part of a landing approach to Somerset County Airport. Yes, that seems plausible, given that the wind direction that day would dictate landing approaches from the north.

Well seismic data says Flight 93 crashed at 10:06 so the time would be 10:06 and the altitude would be under 100 feet and in Susan McElwains case much much lower perhaps 25 feet agl.

I assume you've studied the FDR data plots for flight 93(?) Perhaps you'd care to describe what you think the final flight path, sorry "fall path", of Flight 93 would have really looked like from an eye witness somewhere close to Indian Lake. Would you?

 

[tsig]

you can get all that information from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, Pittsburgh Tribune Review, Sommerset Daily American, along with AP and other national outlets which picked them up.

so who is the disinfo?

all these eyewitnesses?
all these media outlets?

come on DGM quit taking blind stabs and just admit that somethings not right here and it warrents a real investigation.

I thought all MSM were liars and in on the cover up!?

 

[Southwind17]

anyone care to discuss the implications of Lee Purbaugh's insistance that the plane he watched crash was NOT flying inverted?

Sure, I will. You go first ... oh, after you've described the final flight path, as invited above, maybe.

 

[Southwind17]

Oh, I forgot to mention: If a plane did fly over Val McClatchey's house heading north it more than likely flew almost directly over Indian Lake Marina too, which is almost due south of Val McClatchey's house. Now there's a thought!

 

[Norseman]

[qimg]http://killtown.911review.org/images/flight93/gallery/aerial_msnbc.jpg[/qimg]

anyone care to discuss the implications of Lee Purbaugh's insistance that the plane he watched crash was NOT flying inverted?

And Lee Purbaugh also said that the bottom of the aircraft was dark grey. Here are several pictures of N591UA that was Flight 93, even some pictures taken on September 8th 2001:
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N591UA

Note the color on top of the aircraft. Even though Lee Purbaugh didn't notice that the aircraft was flying upside down, others did as pointed by DGM above.

(The telephone interview in question can be found here (Lee Purbaugh second call - 03/28/07). It was made by Jeff Hill a Canadian "no-planer". The interesting part starts at 11:43 and out. Notice Jeff Hill's disbelief when he realizes that Purbaugh actually saw Flight 93 hit the ground.)

 

[Unchained Spirit]

Thank you for helping make my case. If you take away the eye-sound witness statements, what, exactly, do you have left?

Ummm.... all you would have left is the government authorized and approved version of what happened. I'm glad *you* trust them. I sure DON'T. Data is easy to manipulate/fabricate, in case you didn't know that. You see, SouthWind, I can tell you that gawd was angry with me and came here and smashed my truck with a tree limb. I can also show pictures of it. However, since I don't believe in a magical, mythical sky fairy, an easier explanation would be that a storm came through and blew the tree limb down, right?

As for your other reply to me, all I can say is that it comes across as making you look like you have no interest in debating the subject, and that your only interest is trying to convince someone that they are wrong and the government is right. I've already told you, your psychobabble doesn't work on me, run it on someone else. That being said, I bid you farewell, as I don't have time to respond further to nuisance/distraction posts.

 

[Southwind17]

Ummm.... all you would have left is the government authorized and approved version of what happened. I'm glad *you* trust them. I sure DON'T. Data is easy to manipulate/fabricate, in case you didn't know that.

Ah, true colours. You distrust the Government, so everything they're involved in must be dishonest. But you have no facts to support that. I guess all that leaves is, well, cynicism. Sad, really.

As for your other reply to me, all I can say is that it comes across as making you look like you have no interest in debating the subject, and that your only interest is trying to convince someone that they are wrong and the government is right. I've already told you, your psychobabble doesn't work on me, run it on someone else. That being said, I bid you farewell, as I don't have time to respond further to nuisance/distraction posts.

So I'm the one who has no interest?! Fair enough. Goodbye Doug.

 

[gumboot]

Why do you people even bother?

 

[twinstead]

God not another "the data could have been fabricated, therefore it WAS" argument. And to think, I have to deal with this same debate tactic when I go home to my 6 year old.

Not a moment's rest...

 

[T.A.M.]

yes they manipulated the data, but they were SO ****ING STUPID, that they put inaccurate, WRONG data in there when they manipulated it...

what morons some truthers are.

TAM

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Ummm.... all you would have left is the government authorized and approved version of what happened. I'm glad *you* trust them. I sure DON'T. Data is easy to manipulate/fabricate, in case you didn't know that. You see, SouthWind, I can tell you that gawd was angry with me and came here and smashed my truck with a tree limb. I can also show pictures of it. However, since I don't believe in a magical, mythical sky fairy, an easier explanation would be that a storm came through and blew the tree limb down, right?

As for your other reply to me, all I can say is that it comes across as making you look like you have no interest in debating the subject, and that your only interest is trying to convince someone that they are wrong and the government is right. I've already told you, your psychobabble doesn't work on me, run it on someone else. That being said, I bid you farewell, as I don't have time to respond further to nuisance/distraction posts.

And now it's time for you to back up your claim that the data was manipulated. And it's YOU who has no interest in debating the subject, hence you blindly just dismissing any and ALL evidence that doesn't fit your pre-determined conclusion. You have already decided who did it hence you won't accept any evidence. It's not like you found some issue with it, you simply decided in advance what the outcome should be and it doesn't match that outcome.

Who do you think you are kidding here?

 

[TC329]

Nothing's changed your mind, but you elect not to respond constructively to arguments presented. Isn't that a little like repeatedly responding with: "because", you know, like those little pre-pubescent members of our society do?

No, its not. You see I drive nearly 3 hours down the turnpike and meet actual eyewitnesses. I have spent hours on the phone multiple times speaking with many eyewitnesses. Some you will soon learn all about and others you won't until a Congressional Hearing takes place. Then I present this information / video / audio recordings to the American Public uncut and unedited. My face is in them and my name is attached to them. Then when that is over little anonymous cowards and some paid government employees attack me and do everything they can to convince people that these eyewitnesses either didn't see what they describe seeing or that they are somehow pushing "my theory".

The fact that some of you can still live with yourselves and sleep at night is truly mind boggling.

We were promised the air was safe. We were lied to.
We were promised the PATRIOT Act wasn't going to be used against American citizens. We were lied to.
We were reassured no one was monitoring our phone calls or spying on us. We were lied to.
We were told Saddam Hussein possessed deadly biological, chemical, & nuclear weapons and was an imminent threat. We were lied to.
We were told the government of Iraq had ties with the Al Qaeda terrorist organization. We were lied to.
We were told people weren't being tortured. We were lied to.
We were told prisoner abuse was just an isolated incident. We were lied to.
We were told there were no secret CIA prisons in Europe were prisoners were being tortured. We were lied to.

Everything from the Bush Administration and their propaganda machines known to us as mainstream media outlets has been lies. Since the day he came into office.

And yet there are people on the internet (my favorite are the ones who claim to hate and despise Bush so they defend his 9/11 story - which is now the majority of your crowd - let me guess you hate me too - gain any credibility yet?) who defend everything said by a Commission appointed by THE LIAR. Handpicked by the one who's telling us all the ****ing lies. And then the whole time his top adviser (where is he now?) is advising the head of the commission and even recommending he suggest Iraq played a role in 9/11. And no one on this commission has any ties with any top Bush Administration brass, right? Never co-authored books with say Bush's National Advisor or anything..........

Even though Commission Kean says lots of people (in the us gov) have things to hide regarding 9/11 and you can go down the list and identify a hundred people...........

Everything the Bush Administration put out at truth is, isn't it?