Flight 175 plane speed challenged

[NYCEMT86]

Why would you want to miss all the fun?

Of course not

What about them? You don’t track a plane by a phone call.

No but those people were on the passenger manifest, all of whom would be well aware of what flight they were on. So where are these people now?

Really? Ok.

Did they land in Cleveland as well?

Is flight 175 the only plane in the world with a fuselage?

Did you read the OP and follow the links? There are telephone calls with Boeing where they talk about what a 767 can do at sea level.

Yes, but Boeing didn't release a press release...an electronics engineer was interviewed. Does that qualify him like it qualifies Kevin Ryan to speak on behalf of a company? Are we going to see another lawsuit

Ok that's nice. Got any evidence? Of what hit tower that is?

A plane...are you a no planer or do you honestly believe that Flight 175 didn't hit the World Trade Center even with Passengers calling people to say they were hijacked, DNA identified the passengers who were on that flight.

They trace it by tracking the "skin paint" if the transponder is turned off. That's just the blip on the screen with no identifing code. If two planes are at the same a latitude and longitude but different altitude the blips of the two planes merge on the radar scopes. Flight 175 is thought to have changed not turned off but who is to know for sure with everything going on that day? The same ATC's who aren't amatuers thought flight 77 that hit the Pentagon was a fighter jet at one point. Why didn't they know for sure what it was?

I believe PhantomWolf Explained it best

No, they thought it was a military plane because of two reasons. One was the speed, which was excessive for a civilian airliner in that area (in fact illegal) but not for a military plane, the second was that it was unsafe to fly a passanger plane that way, mainly because you are likely to have passangers on board who could be thrown about. They never stated that they thought it was a fighter jet at all, the military does have a lot of other planes (C-130s etc)

But what evidence do you have that says it wasn't Flight 175?

 

[PhantomWolf]

WHY are you people still feeding this troll? Hasn't his game become painfully transparent by now?

Good idea, I think I'll just ignore him from now on until such time as he proves beyond any possible doubt that the moon really exists and isn't just a projected hologram.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

What I want to know is, are you lying, or are you simply speaking about things of which you know nothing?

Your above comments are totally false.

Radar tracks are divided into different altitudes, and FAA primary radar can track altitude.





The above is false. You realise that, right? Please provide evidence that anyone ever thought AA77 was a fighter jet.

-Gumboot

Who doesn't know what they are talking about?

http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/OBrien,Danielle.shtml

Danielle O'Brien, air traffic controller in Dulles. September 11th, 2001 ~8:18 AM: Airport air traffic controller Danielle O'Brien (Dulles) handled the routine, on-time departure of American Flight 77:

"I slid over to the controller on my left, Tom Howell, and I asked him, 'Do you see an unidentified plane near southwest of Dulles? she remembered. "And his response was, 'Yes. Oh, my gosh, yes, look how fast he is.'" In the room, it was almost a sense of relief," O'Brien said. "This must be a fighter. This must be one of our guys sent in, scrambled to patrol our capital, and to protect our president." O'Brien had already handed Flight 77 off to a different air traffic control center. "And we waited. And we waited," O'Brien recalled. "And your heart is just beating out of your chest. And then the Washington National Airport controllers came over our speakers in our room and said, 'Dulles, hold all of our inbound traffic. The Pentagon's been hit. 9:06 AM"

 

[NYCEMT86]

At 8:47, air traffic control received the first indications that the plane was hijacked. The transponder code was changed twice but was never turned off. This allowed ATC to continually track the flight and monitor flight data, including altitude. In five minutes, there was no doubt of an emergency, as the plane had radically changed course and was not responding.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc03.pdf



Still no evidence it wasn't flight 175?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

At 8:47, air traffic control received the first indications that the plane was hijacked. The transponder code was changed twice but was never turned off. This allowed ATC to continually track the flight and monitor flight data, including altitude. In five minutes, there was no doubt of an emergency, as the plane had radically changed course and was not responding.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc03.pdf



Still no evidence it wasn't flight 175?

It means they tracked something it doesn't prove they tracked 175.

Let me ask you something. Why would the hijackers change the code or turn it off?

For what purpose?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

WHY are you people still feeding this troll? Hasn't his game become painfully transparent by now?

You have been given the evidence over and over and over. Just because you refuse to accept that it is evidence doesn't stop it being so.

I have to agree with maxpower1227 here. A number of people here have done far more than ZEN has demanded. That his mind in unwilling or unable to to accept the information that's been given to him is his own problem.

Let him wallow in his soon-to-be-announced-yet-false "victory". Let him starve.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Who doesn't know what they are talking about?

http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/OBrien,Danielle.shtml

Danielle O'Brien, air traffic controller in Dulles. September 11th, 2001 ~8:18 AM: Airport air traffic controller Danielle O'Brien (Dulles) handled the routine, on-time departure of American Flight 77:

"I slid over to the controller on my left, Tom Howell, and I asked him, 'Do you see an unidentified plane near southwest of Dulles? she remembered. "And his response was, 'Yes. Oh, my gosh, yes, look how fast he is.'" In the room, it was almost a sense of relief," O'Brien said. "This must be a fighter. This must be one of our guys sent in, scrambled to patrol our capital, and to protect our president." O'Brien had already handed Flight 77 off to a different air traffic control center. "And we waited. And we waited," O'Brien recalled. "And your heart is just beating out of your chest. And then the Washington National Airport controllers came over our speakers in our room and said, 'Dulles, hold all of our inbound traffic. The Pentagon's been hit. 9:06 AM"

So he wouldn't have know that was Flight 77 since he was no longer tracking it. Now did the ATC who was tracking Flight 77 at that time think it was a military fighter?

 

[NYCEMT86]

It means they tracked something it doesn't prove they tracked 175.

So where are all the passengers and crew from Flight 175? Why haven't they stepped forward to say it wasn't their flight or could it be that they are were killed when their flight hit the WTC?

Your logic seems to fall short of the obvious facts.

Let me ask you something. Why would the hijackers change the code or turn it off?

For what purpose?

I am not sure why they would have, like I said my knowledge of anything about transponders is layman. My information is from people who know about Transponders and its purpose, maybe they can answer that for me.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

What I want to know is, are you lying, or are you simply speaking about things of which you know nothing?

Your above comments are totally false.

Radar tracks are divided into different altitudes, and FAA primary radar can track altitude.





The above is false. You realise that, right? Please provide evidence that anyone ever thought AA77 was a fighter jet.

-Gumboot

Here's some more for you Mr. expert...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=robert_marr

According to the 9/11 Commission, NEADS has just been told that the hijacked Flight 11 is still in the air and heading toward Washington. Major Kevin Nasypany, the mission crew commander, says to NEADS Commander Robert Marr, “Okay, uh, American Airlines is still airborne. Eleven, the first guy, he’s heading towards Washington. Okay? I think we need to scramble Langley right now. And I’m gonna take the fighters from Otis, try to chase this guy down if I can find him.” After receiving approval to do so, Nasypany issues the order. “Okay… scramble Langley,” he says. “Head them towards the Washington area.” The Langley, Virginia, base gets the scramble order at 9:24 a.m. (see (9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001). NEADS keeps its fighters from the Otis base over New York City. In 2004 the 9/11 Commission will state, “this response to a phantom aircraft, American 11, is not recounted in a single public timeline or statement issued by FAA or DOD. [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004; Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006]

 

[ZENSMACK89]

So where are all the passengers and crew from Flight 175? Why haven't they stepped forward to say it wasn't their flight or could it be that they are were killed when their flight hit the WTC?

Your logic seems to fall short of the obvious facts.

Everything you've posted so far seems to fall short of anything that would even resemble evidence of what hit the tower. I don't need to provide an alternative with all the details to dispute your unproven official CT. Just like if you were able to ever debunk an alternative CT it still would not make your CT anymore true.

I am not sure why they would have, like I said my knowledge of anything about transponders is layman. My information is from people who know about Transponders and its purpose, maybe they can answer that for me.

Ok that's honest. But do you really think it's logical that they serve no purpose in positively tracking a plane?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

No, they thought it was a military plane because of two reasons. One was the speed, which was excessive for a civilian airliner in that area (in fact illegal) but not for a military plane, the second was that it was unsafe to fly a passanger plane that way, mainly because you are likely to have passangers on board who could be thrown about. They never stated that they thought it was a fighter jet at all, the military does have a lot of other planes (C-130s etc)

Why would they be going by speed or the way it was flying when according to some here all they had to do was follow the blip?

 

[e^n]

This isn't a thread about how theories are formulated and verified champ. This thread already has an OP did you read it? If you have nothing to offer this thread or aren't interested go start you own.

It does no you good to dismiss my accusation with handwaving, indeed it clearly demonstrates the bias involved. It is only the good nature of people posting here that sustains this thread, there is no debate to be had here.

As I said, the most effective method to deal with 'debate' of this calibre is to ignore the person involved, which I am about to start doing. Good day to you sir.

 

[gumboot]

Who doesn't know what they are talking about?

http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/OBrien,Danielle.shtml

Danielle O'Brien, air traffic controller in Dulles. September 11th, 2001 ~8:18 AM: Airport air traffic controller Danielle O'Brien (Dulles) handled the routine, on-time departure of American Flight 77:

"I slid over to the controller on my left, Tom Howell, and I asked him, 'Do you see an unidentified plane near southwest of Dulles? she remembered. "And his response was, 'Yes. Oh, my gosh, yes, look how fast he is.'" In the room, it was almost a sense of relief," O'Brien said. "This must be a fighter. This must be one of our guys sent in, scrambled to patrol our capital, and to protect our president." O'Brien had already handed Flight 77 off to a different air traffic control center. "And we waited. And we waited," O'Brien recalled. "And your heart is just beating out of your chest. And then the Washington National Airport controllers came over our speakers in our room and said, 'Dulles, hold all of our inbound traffic. The Pentagon's been hit. 9:06 AM"

So the Pentagon was hit at 0906 AM? Uh huh.

Here's a direct quote from Danielle O'Brien regarding AA77 when Dulles TRACON tracked it into the Pentagon:

"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe."

The bolded part is typically let our by conspiracy theorists, for obvious reasons. The reality is AA77's speed and turn were well within the airframe limits for a 757, and well within the capabilities of a very average pilot such as Hani Hanjour.

You can read the full article here.

The comment that "it must be one of our fighters" was in response to the fact that the aircraft turned away from the White House, not because of its speed or maneuverability.

-Gumboot

 

[gumboot]

Here's some more for you Mr. expert...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=robert_marr

According to the 9/11 Commission, NEADS has just been told that the hijacked Flight 11 is still in the air and heading toward Washington. Major Kevin Nasypany, the mission crew commander, says to NEADS Commander Robert Marr, “Okay, uh, American Airlines is still airborne. Eleven, the first guy, he’s heading towards Washington. Okay? I think we need to scramble Langley right now. And I’m gonna take the fighters from Otis, try to chase this guy down if I can find him.” After receiving approval to do so, Nasypany issues the order. “Okay… scramble Langley,” he says. “Head them towards the Washington area.” The Langley, Virginia, base gets the scramble order at 9:24 a.m. (see (9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001). NEADS keeps its fighters from the Otis base over New York City. In 2004 the 9/11 Commission will state, “this response to a phantom aircraft, American 11, is not recounted in a single public timeline or statement issued by FAA or DOD. [9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004; Vanity Fair, 8/1/2006]

What's your point?

-Gumboot

 

[ZENSMACK89]

So the Pentagon was hit at 0906 AM? Uh huh.

Here's a direct quote from Danielle O'Brien regarding AA77 when Dulles TRACON tracked it into the Pentagon:



The bolded part is typically let our by conspiracy theorists, for obvious reasons. The reality is AA77's speed and turn were well within the airframe limits for a 757, and well within the capabilities of a very average pilot such as Hani Hanjour.

You can read the full article here.

The comment that "it must be one of our fighters" was in response to the fact that the aircraft turned away from the White House, not because of its speed or maneuverability.

-Gumboot

I already did read it Gumboot when did you? Before or after you asked this...

The above is false. You realise that, right? Please provide evidence that anyone ever thought AA77 was a fighter jet.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

What's your point?

-Gumboot

What's my point? My point is they weren't positive what they were tracking that day were they?

 

[JimBenArm]

It means they tracked something it doesn't prove they tracked 175.

Let me ask you something. Why would the hijackers change the code or turn it off?

For what purpose?

To give you something to ask stupid questions about. Much like this "prove it's 175" crap.

So, if it wasn't 175 that hit, what was it? Where is 175? If you say you don't know, then this is just a gigantic circle jerk, and you're the pivot man.

 

[gumboot]

I already did read it Gumboot when did you? Before or after you asked this...

Yes at one point some of them thought it must be NORAD fighters because it turned away from the White House. Very true.

What, may I ask, do you think the significance of that is, in particular how it relates to UA175, which is what this thread is about.

-Gumboot

 

[gumboot]

What's my point? My point is they weren't positive what they were tracking that day were they?

How is it proof of that?

-Gumboot

 

[ZENSMACK89]

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A0

"We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD's Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft -- American Airlines Flight 11 -- long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center.

Maj. Gen. Larry Arnold and Col. Alan Scott told the commission that NORAD had begun tracking United 93 at 9:16 a.m., but the commission determined that the airliner was not hijacked until 12 minutes later. The military was not aware of the flight until after it had crashed in Pennsylvania.